Calvinism and Context?

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Just_Jo

Just_Jo

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jackrosie said:
Not sure why you laughed at that Jo....I gave you scripture which you completely ignored....now I wonder why you did that?..hmmm.
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I didn't ignore it. I responded.
You asked how I interpret it.

See herein lies the problem.
Jesus is still victor over death,hell and the grave,so you cannot win!
You hate Him for it too bc you let pride ruin your existence and got cast down.
Here is all you will ever have until it is truly finished .

You cannot have this soul!
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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Bbrdrd said:
When it comes to discussions of Romans 8 and 9, you and other calvinists in these threads have conveniently ignored discussion of the context stating that the plain text is sufficient, or bringing in other proof texts devoid of context. So you treat your proof texts as not needing to speak to the context for meaning.

When it comes to verses that contain "all" or "world" in place where your doctrine demands it be speaking only of the elect, you conveniently appeal to context whether the context actually moderates it or not. So in Scripture that goes against your doctrine suddenly context matters.

Some Scripture are treated with one measure, others with another. So the scales are dishonest.
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Romans 8 Life through the Spirit correct?

What would you like to discuss?
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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Just_Jo said:
I didn't ignore it. I responded.
You asked how I interpret it.

See herein lies the problem.
Jesus is still victor over death,hell and the grave,so you cannot win!
You hate Him for it too bc you let pride ruin your existence and got cast down.
Here is all you will ever have until it is truly finished .

You cannot have this soul!
Click to expand...

No you didn’t respond to the scripture I posted....as for the rest of this post....zzz.....

Stop trying to play God,it’s pathetic and I’m embarrassed for you.
 
Just_Jo

Just_Jo

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Someone may take over.
He is strong wherein he lives.

I need to recharge.
Grace,peace and mercy!
 
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Bbrdrd

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jackrosie said:
Romans 8 Life through the Spirit correct?

What would you like to discuss?
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The specific Scripture that I had in mind from Romans 8 is the constant proof texting of Romans 8:29 which several have attempted to discuss with both of the prime perverters of Scripture in this thread based on its context only to either receive no reply, or to be dismissed entirely as "philosophizing" for drawing on its context to glean the meaning rather than simply reading it through TULIP glasses.
 
awelight

awelight

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Bbrdrd said:
When it comes to discussions of Romans 8 and 9, you and other calvinists in these threads have conveniently ignored discussion of the context stating that the plain text is sufficient, or bringing in other proof texts devoid of context. So you treat your proof texts as not needing to speak to the context for meaning.

When it comes to verses that contain "all" or "world" in place where your doctrine demands it be speaking only of the elect, you conveniently appeal to context whether the context actually moderates it or not. So in Scripture that goes against your doctrine suddenly context matters.

Some Scripture are treated with one measure, others with another. So the scales are dishonest.
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Still don't see any Scriptural examples of this statement, "When it comes to verses that contain "all" or "world" in place where your doctrine demands it be speaking only of the elect, you conveniently appeal to context whether the context actually moderates it or not."

I defend the Truth of Scripture, not the truth of Calvinism. So you see, you may not know about me, what you think.

No matter, got to run.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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Bbrdrd said:
The specific Scripture that I had in mind from Romans 8 is the constant proof texting of Romans 8:29 which several have attempted to discuss with both of the prime perverters of Scripture in this thread based on its context only to either receive no reply, or to be dismissed entirely as "philosophizing" for drawing on its context to glean the meaning rather than simply reading it through TULIP glasses.
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Right,well I understand through the Holy Spirit....not sure why you had to explain all of that....Life through the Spirit ain’t complicated if you are a child of God.

I understand all of Romans 8 because I am led by the Spirit..you can’t lead yourself through Romans..

Anyway I too must dash..see you laters...I will be back.
 
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Bbrdrd

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awelight said:
Still don't see any Scriptural examples of this statement, "When it comes to verses that contain "all" or "world" in place where your doctrine demands it be speaking only of the elect, you conveniently appeal to context whether the context actually moderates it or not."

I defend the Truth of Scripture, not the truth of Calvinism. So you see, you may not know about me, what you think.

No matter, got to run.
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You want a specific example of the dishonest scales?

Romans 8:29 receives one treatment, yet John 12:32 receives another.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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Bbrdrd said:
You want a specific example of the dishonest scales?

Romans 8:29 receives one treatment, yet John 12:32 receives another.
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What do you mean,Romans receive one treatment,yet John receive another.

When you explain try and keep it simple...you seem to over complicate
 
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Bbrdrd

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jackrosie said:
What do you mean,Romans receive one treatment,yet John receive another.

When you explain try and keep it simple...you seem to over complicate
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The explanation is in the discussion that's been going on. And it's not theoretical, both of those verses have received the different treatment by him in the threads we've been going back and forth in.

Romans 8:29 is treated as if all of the words in it can simply be taken for a plain meaning, particularly "predestined" and "foreknew," despite these being complex words needing context to explain them. So the context is ignored and when it is brought up dismissed.

On the other hand, John 12:32 is dissected and a simple word like "all" is treated as needing context to address it. The plain meaning isn't seen as good enough.

Realistically, if they required different treatments it seems to me the opposite would be the case given "all" is a common word that has a usual meaning while "foreknew" and "predestined" are complex words that are unusual.
 
cv5

cv5

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dcontroversal said:
Exactly.......Israel was called the "assembly" of the firstborn in the wilderness <-same word translated church in the King Jimmy.......Grace, love, salvation, being chosen in Him (biblically and not the satanic calvinistic way) is woven all through the O.T. in example, picture, type, shadow and somewhat obscure, but it is there......I have come to the conclusion that Calvinism is more dangerous and false than Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses......because of it's "slyness" and the way it skews, twists and embellishes the word of God as opposed to just printing one's own "bible" like the Book of Mormon or Watchtower garbage.
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Gentlemen, gentlemen. I see that we will have to once again clean up your mess.
May I draw to your attention to the (COUGH! COUGH!) DOCTRINE of the elect remnant.

Rom 9:11
for they not yet having been born nor having done anything good or evil, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand,

Rom 11:5
In the same way, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

No realistic discussion nor assessment of the nature of the "assembly in the wilderness" could EVER make sense without BEGINNING with the novel never before fully codified, revealed and understood DOCTRINE of the chosen/elect remnant of Israel.

Shame on you. Just shame on you that's all I have to say about it.
 
cv5

cv5

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jackrosie said:
What do you mean,Romans receive one treatment,yet John receive another.

When you explain try and keep it simple...you seem to over complicate
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The dude has more hoops to jump through than a Cirque du Soleil performer.
 
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Bbrdrd

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cv5 said:
The dude has more hoops to jump through than a Cirque du Soleil performer.
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Not at all, I just insist on a consistent exegetical method instead of slapping together a bunch of proof texts to create a doctrine and then interpreting according to that doctrine.

Scripture must first be understood in its own terms, which means understanding the literature style and its hallmarks, looking to the immediate context, to the context of the particular book, to where that book fits in the Bible at large, to the original audiences expectations.

Just because you sweep that all aside in favor of the philosophical musings of the reformers and the ahistorical method of interpretation they used to create sweeping doctrines and systematic theologies by which to stand as judge of Scripture does not make your approach appropriate nor your conclusions Scriptural.
 
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