Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[garee]

I have plenty of harmony with the scriptures pal.....what you peddle came from a man named Calvin in the mid 1500's......and what he peddled is heretical!

It has nothing to do with Calvin he is dead.

To how many was it heretical to? The ones that were not given the power to believe?

Jesus was given that power as the Son of man. It was not of his own self and he did not boast as if it did. .

Where did you receive the power from seeing mankind is born with no faith by which they could believe God? ?

 

[garee]

God don't lie. He does want all men to come to repentance and that is exactly what he said. To say it any other way is twisting it and not truthfully representing scripture.

And if you want to harmonize scripture you should and you need to start from the beginning and harmonize all scripture so that you can get a picture of who God really is....He is a God of love, justice, and judgement. He doesn't make people to burn for no other reason than he just don't like them so he will never give them a chance. Nothing in the Bible supports this when all the scriptures are taken together and in context....

Repentance is a work of God. like with all he must do the first work giving ears to hear his understand. Having his understanding empowered by Him we can seek after him.

Romans3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Duskey]

Ok. Let's talk about this for a moment.

Are all men saved?

If yes, then you must be a universalist. In which case I can just say you are wrong and I can give you many scriptures telling you why.

If no, then why not? Is He God or are peoples "free will" more powerful than God?


This is really the only way to reason with people who don't understand scripture. Because scripture is absolutely clear. It is God who shows mercy. It is God who chooses. It is God who draws people to Christ. It is God who saves.

It is not the "free will" of people that is the cause of anything except abomination to God.

Isaiah 64:6-8
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

8 But now, O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.


I almost don't like bringing scripture into this seeing how you don't really understand it and then twist it to try and make it mean something else. But I'm hoping maybe you will see your error.

What is it about the day you believed in Christ you do not understand that you made a decision to do so?

 

[Duskey]

Christ did not die for all mankind, but only for those that his Father gave him, and he will not lose any of them, but raise them up at the last day. John 6:39.

Once again you’re adding to Scripture. Show me the exact bolded words in the Bible.

 

[garee]

What is it about the day you believed in Christ you do not understand that you made a decision to do so?

I would suggest understanding not having a faith that could please God .And therefore natural mankind no way to seek .

Having no understanding that God works in those dead in their trespasses an sin those without hope and God in this present world. And he who is not served by human hands as a will works to gives them the power to believe. Then understanding having the power to seek after Him .

The call of repentance as a commandment. "Beleive upon the Lord". As many that are given power can believe. If no power coming from the unseen father then no understanding to seek after . (Both the will and the power to believe God.) The labor of His love also called a "work of faith" (the will of God) Can't have one without the other.

Of ones own volition it is impossible to seek after God. He as our Faithful and True Creator must do the first works.

Romans 3:10;11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[Duskey]

I would suggest understanding not having a faith that could please God .And therefore natural mankind no way to seek .

Having no understanding that God works in those dead in their trespasses an sin those without hope and God in this present world. And he who is not served by human hands as a will works to gives them the power to believe. Then understanding having the power to seek after Him .

The call of repentance as a commandment. "Beleive upon the Lord". As many that are given power can believe. If no power coming from the unseen father then no understanding to seek after . (Both the will and the power to believe God.) The labor of His love also called a "work of faith" (the will of God) Can't have one without the other.

Of ones own volition it is impossible to seek after God. He as our Faithful and True Creator must do the first works.

Romans 3:10;11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

God provided the opportunity for me to hear the Gospel, hearing it touched my heart, I contemplated and believed.

 

[EleventhHour]

Christ did not die for all mankind,

Maybe it is just me...... but this is as heretical as denying the divinity of Jesus.

A completely different gospel that would need to be preached, unless one wants to be a liar.>>>>>>>>>>>>"Jesus may or may not have died for you"

Anyone who agrees with the above by @ForestGreenCook needs to think on that.

What a travesty.

 

[EleventhHour]

I have plenty of harmony with the scriptures pal.....what you peddle came from a man named Calvin in the mid 1500's......and what he peddled is heretical!

Now isn't that just something..... telling you to harmonize scripture, when they deny context and redefine words creating huge disharmony.

I have been very impressed (in not a good way) by how Calvinism and context never, EVER go together and people believe it, even still.

 

[EleventhHour]

Repentance is a work of God. like with all he must do the first work giving ears to hear his understand. Having his understanding empowered by Him we can seek after him.

Romans3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

More goto lines out of context as usual...
Paul is seeking to prove that no one can earn righteousness by means of the law.
But in verse 21 he explains that the righteousness of Christ can be obtained by means of grace through faith in Christ.

Wrong Calvinism....

Apart from the irresistible work of regeneration which precedes belief, a person cannot willingly seek to know, understand, or follow god and god basically hates all of humanity until He regenerates his chosen few.

Correct orthodox, non heretical...

Apart from the initiative and plan of God in bringing His Son, the Holy Spirit, and the power of the Gospel message no one can merit salvation or consistently seek to obey God in a way that will attain his own righteousness.

 

[garee]

More goto lines out of context as usual...

Out of context as usual

Paul is seeking to prove that no one can earn righteousness by means of the law. But in verse 21 he shifts to reveal a righteousness that can be obtained by means of grace through faith in Christ.

Wrong Calvinism....

Apart from the irresistible work of regeneration which precedes belief, a person cannot willingly seek to know, understand, or follow god and god basically hates all of humanity until He regenerates his chosen few.

Correct orthodox, non heretical...

Apart from the initiative and plan of God in bringing His Son, the Holy Spirit, and the power of the Gospel message no one can merit salvation or consistently seek to obey God in a way that will attain his own righteousness.

Correct orthodox ? .The Pharisees with Sadducees?

Out of the boundaries of faith, the work of God that works in us as usual? How is that so? His love hems us in.

A righteousness that can be obtained by means of grace through the work of Christ's faith a labor of his love.? Or of our own self, self-righteous?

Ephesians 2:8 -9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Jesus who did the work of the father gave glory to him .I think we should also having believed delivered from death to eternal life .Its the first love of his labor that we return to when we fall and repent .

And its not faith in or towards but faith of God towards us .An eternity of difference.

 

[Duskey]

Maybe it is just me...... but this is as heretical as denying the divinity of Jesus.

A completely different gospel that would need to be preached, unless one wants to be a liar.>>>>>>>>>>>>"Jesus may or may not have died for you"

Anyone who agrees with the above by @ForestGreenCook needs to think on that.

What a travesty.

It’s heartbreaking to see followers of Christ believe and share such sentiments.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When did God make Jonah go to Nineveh? He didn't make him do anything, but he sure did make him wish he had...when he got swallowed up by a whale. Not sure what you call it, but I call it chastising. He didn't make him go to Nineveh. Jonah had a choice and chose wrong but God chastised him and once the whale spit him up...Jonah was willing to do it. Still didn't mean God made him, though.

What part of Pharaoh, don't you get? God gave him chance after chance to obey...Yet he would not and so God sent plagues each time, but Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not obey, even though he saw that God kept hitting him with plague after plague. Pharaoh was still to stubborn to obey.

Yes, God made Noah change his mind! Just the way he can make anyone change their mind, even all of mankind to change their minds about accepting him, if he so desired. God made the natural man who was spiritually dead to change his mind, by giving him a new mind in Eph 2. God will eternal save everybody that he so desires to. even all mankind. Pharaoh even eventually changed his mind and let God's people go.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I have plenty of harmony with the scriptures pal.....what you peddle came from a man named Calvin in the mid 1500's......and what he peddled is heretical!

You keep insisting that I have counsel with the writings of Calvin, when I have told you that what I have heard of his writings, that I am not in agreement with some of his beliefs. With your replies to my posts, without scriptures makes me wonder if you are afraid that I will prove them wrong because they do not harmonize. You must be one of the group that was wise and prudent that God hid the meaning of the scriptures from.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Does this mean taking ideas contradictory to a system and then changing the meaning of words within scripture fit the system?

Be not removed from the simple Gospel.....

You and your sidekick, decon's posts are just the same, posting derogatory remarks with no scripture proof.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Maybe it is just me...... but this is as heretical as denying the divinity of Jesus.

A completely different gospel that would need to be preached, unless one wants to be a liar.>>>>>>>>>>>>"Jesus may or may not have died for you"

Anyone who agrees with the above by @ForestGreenCook needs to think on that.

What a travesty.

Same as always, afraid to use scripture with your derogatory remarks.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It’s heartbreaking to see followers of Christ believe and share such sentiments.

What is heartbreaking is that I show you scriptures that do not harmonize with the scriptures you use to determine your beliefs, and you ignore them as they are written.

 

[EleventhHour]

You keep insisting that I have counsel with the writings of Calvin, when I have told you that what I have heard of his writings, that I am not in agreement with some of his beliefs. With your replies to my posts, without scriptures makes me wonder if you are afraid that I will prove them wrong because they do not harmonize. You must be one of the group that was wise and prudent that God hid the meaning of the scriptures from.

Christ did not die for all mankind,

The concept of limited atonement was extrapolated from Calvin, refined, codified and promoted by his followers ... you do understand that his faulty dogma is pervasive and you would not conclude this on your own by reading scripture.

Be honest.

 

[EleventhHour]

Same as always, afraid to use scripture with your derogatory remarks.

Does "all" mean all in scripture?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Once again you’re adding to Scripture. Show me the exact bolded words in the Bible.

What the scripture implies, by the wording of it, is what you have bolded. John 6:39, And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, THAT OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but raise it up again at the last day.

Will Jesus raise all which God has given him up at the last day? Answer yes, or no.

Did God give him all of mankind? Answer yes, or no.

If both of your answers are "yes" then that proves your bolded phrase.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The concept of limited atonement was extrapolated from Calvin, refined, codified and promoted by his followers ... you do understand that his faulty dogma is pervasive and you would not conclude this on your own by reading scripture.

Be honest.

I am being honest in my statements and interpretation of the scriptures. Answer my questions in my post #3899.