Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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ForestGreenCook

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#481
Jul 8, 2018
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#481
eternally-gratefull said:
Paul, In eph 1: 13 - 14 told them HOW they got to that state.

No place in those 2 verses did he say they were regenerated, THEN heard the word. THEN trusted the word, THEN were saved and sealed.

Your adding to the word.
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Here is our difference; You do not interpret 1 Cor 2:14 correctly. The natural man cannot discern the spiritual scriptures enough to "believe". Verse 13 - In whom you also trusted (the natural man does not trust in spiritual things, they are foolishness to him), in whom also, after ye believed ( the natural man cannot believe in things that he cannot discern ). Neither the elect or the natural man cannot believe spiritual things until after they have been regenerated (Eph 2:5). The fact that they believed is evidence that they have been regenerated.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#482
Jan 13, 2016
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#482
ForestGreenCook said:
Here is our difference; You do not interpret 1 Cor 2:14 correctly. The natural man cannot discern the spiritual scriptures enough to "believe". Verse 13 - In whom you also trusted (the natural man does not trust in spiritual things, they are foolishness to him), in whom also, after ye believed ( the natural man cannot believe in things that he cannot discern ). Neither the elect or the natural man cannot believe spiritual things until after they have been regenerated (Eph 2:5). The fact that they believed is evidence that they have been regenerated.
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You should rewrite the bible then to fit your theology. Ephesians should read, you were first sealed with the holy spirit before you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, then after you heard the word, you believed the the word...

It's just not there. Rewrite the word if you want, I'm leaving it alone.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#483
#483
ForestGreenCook said:
Here is our difference; You do not interpret 1 Cor 2:14 correctly. The natural man cannot discern the spiritual scriptures enough to "believe". Verse 13 - In whom you also trusted (the natural man does not trust in spiritual things, they are foolishness to him), in whom also, after ye believed ( the natural man cannot believe in things that he cannot discern ). Neither the elect or the natural man cannot believe spiritual things until after they have been regenerated (Eph 2:5). The fact that they believed is evidence that they have been regenerated.
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Dude, Your really getting anoying with your one or 2 verses you continue to use which you THINK proves your right

There is nothing wrong with those verses. They are correct. We can not understand things about God until we are born again.

Which is the REASON why the HS was sent to help us understand.

A man who is dead because of sin CAN NOT be born again UNTIL that sin is removed. 1 cor 2: 14 does not counter that argument, that argument is fact. No matter how you wish it not to be.

Want proof?

Peter. John 6. When jesus asked them if they wanted to go too. “Where are we to go. YOU HAVE THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE.

Peter did not yet understand the truth. Or what was happening, BUT HE TRUSTED GOD, and his faith KEPT HIM GOING

The people who left? They left because they DID NOT TRUST JESUS.

See the difference? Or are you going to stick with trying to use 2 passages out of literally thousands of passages to make a doctrine?

Are you going to trust God. Or the men who have told you this stuff you are following?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#484
Jul 8, 2018
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#484
eternally-gratefull said:
I should have known. You people come in here like you know the world. You attack, slander and insult, then try to say we all need to work in harmony and should act like good christiam people.

If you do not have anythign good to say, My suggestion to you is do not say anything at all. I have 2 calvinist brothers I talk to all the time. And they are the only two I have met in CC I even have any respect for. Becausewhen they share their belief, they do not attack, or judge, or belittle, or slander others.. Then try to yell at everyone else saying they have the problem.

It has nothign to do with being smart enough. God will make sure people know the gospel. He has to. If they cannot understand it, THEY CANlT COME TO FAITH, if they have NO CAPABILITY TO COME TO FAITH, God can not judge them for unbelief, Because he never gave them a way to understand.

Maybe your God acts that way (which is why it sickens me) but the god of the universe is a fair god. When eternity is come and past. No one will question his love ever again..
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By what God saw in Ps 53:2-3, he saw that the only way that he could make sure people know the gospel was to put the Holy Spirit within them through regeneration (Eph 2:5).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#485
#485
ForestGreenCook said:
By what God saw in Ps 53:2-3, he saw that the only way that he could make sure people know the gospel was to put the Holy Spirit within them through regeneration (Eph 2:5).
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See. Your stuck on two verses.
All while ignoring what Jesus said in John 6.

You say YOU know Gods will

Jesus told us what GODS WILL WAS

I chose to follow what jesus said, not what you think.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#486
Jul 8, 2018
8,310
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#486
John146 said:
You should rewrite the bible then to fit your theology. Ephesians should read, you were first sealed with the holy spirit before you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, then after you heard the word, you believed the the word...

It's just not there. Rewrite the word if you want, I'm leaving it alone.
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I don't know what version of the bible you study from, but the KJV says in Eph 1:13, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit (which is the earnest of our inheritance, nor our inheritance) AFTER ye heard the gospel. Maybe you should compare your version with the KJV.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#487
Sep 9, 2018
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#487
eternally-gratefull said:
I chose to follow what jesus said, not what you think.
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If people would just read the Bible at face value they could never be Calvinists. In order to believe as they do they have to go through all sorts of mind games -- defining words and outright changing them to fit their doctrine. Oh well, they have to face God one day. They will not be happy campers.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#488
Jan 13, 2016
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#488
ForestGreenCook said:
I don't know what version of the bible you study from, but the KJV says in Eph 1:13, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit (which is the earnest of our inheritance, nor our inheritance) AFTER ye heard the gospel. Maybe you should compare your version with the KJV.
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You should know I am a KJV only believer. The Holy Spirit seals the believer. One must be a believer first before having the seal of the Holy Spirit. The order is: hear the gospel, believe the gospel, sealed with the Holy Spirit. That's the order. The Holy Spirit does NOT indwell the believer before one hears and believes.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#489
Sep 9, 2018
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#489
ForestGreenCook said:
AFTER ye heard the gospel
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Uh, yea . . . Folks have to hear the Gospel first. It is the Gospel which works on them, convicts them, and brings them to Christ. And then they are sealed. I have no problem with accepting that God foreknew who would receive Christ and who would not - but I don't buy that He 'sealed' the deal way in advance and denied all the rest an opportunity to receive Christ. But you are fully persuaded in your own mind. I'm just going to do my best to see that others don't buy into your erroneous persuasions.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#491
#491
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Uh, yea . . . Folks have to hear the Gospel first. It is the Gospel which works on them, convicts them, and brings them to Christ. And then they are sealed. I have no problem with accepting that God foreknew who would receive Christ and who would not - but I don't buy that He 'sealed' the deal way in advance and denied all the rest an opportunity to receive Christ. But you are fully persuaded in your own mind. I'm just going to do my best to see that others don't buy into your erroneous persuasions.
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It fits in what what Jesus said

Whoever sees and believes

We can not see jesus except through his written word..

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word. Not by regeneration
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#492
Jul 8, 2018
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#492
eternally-gratefull said:
See. Your stuck on two verses.
All while ignoring what Jesus said in John 6.

You say YOU know Gods will

Jesus told us what GODS WILL WAS

I chose to follow what jesus said, not what you think.
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You might also consider to include all scripture and not ignore some. John 6 says in verse 37; All that the Father giveth me SHALL (not CAN) come to me. I hope you choose to follow what Jesus says.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

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#493
Sep 9, 2018
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#493
ForestGreenCook said:
You might also consider to include all scripture and not ignore some. John 6 says in verse 37; All that the Father giveth me SHALL (not CAN) come to me. I hope you choose to follow what Jesus says.
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"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).

Why lookie here . . . personal responsibility to believe. Did Calvinists miss one? I know they really don't like context.

And it says may NOT shall . . .
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#494
Jul 8, 2018
8,310
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#494
eternally-gratefull said:
Dude, Your really getting anoying with your one or 2 verses you continue to use which you THINK proves your right

There is nothing wrong with those verses. They are correct. We can not understand things about God until we are born again.

Which is the REASON why the HS was sent to help us understand.

A man who is dead because of sin CAN NOT be born again UNTIL that sin is removed. 1 cor 2: 14 does not counter that argument, that argument is fact. No matter how you wish it not to be.

Want proof?

Peter. John 6. When jesus asked them if they wanted to go too. “Where are we to go. YOU HAVE THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE.

Peter did not yet understand the truth. Or what was happening, BUT HE TRUSTED GOD, and his faith KEPT HIM GOING

The people who left? They left because they DID NOT TRUST JESUS.

See the difference? Or are you going to stick with trying to use 2 passages out of literally thousands of passages to make a doctrine?

Are you going to trust God. Or the men who have told you this stuff you are following?
Click to expand...
The sins were removed for those that Christ died for, which are those that the Father gave him, on the cross. The old testament saints, as well as the apostles, were regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which gave them the ABILITY to discern spiritual things, which they did not understand fully until after Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Ghost which REVEALS what Jesus had taught them. The examples you have given were regenerated men, not the natural man that has not been regenerated. You really should include ALL scriptures when trying to glean the truth. All scriptures harmonize if you are interpreting them right.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#495
#495
ForestGreenCook said:
You might also consider to include all scripture and not ignore some. John 6 says in verse 37; All that the Father giveth me SHALL (not CAN) come to me. I hope you choose to follow what Jesus says.
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I do follow it.

Who did God give the son?

Whoever sees and believes in him will have eternal life. Shall never die, Shall never hunger or thirst. Shall never be lost. Shall be risen by him.

You have the issue wrong, You forget God is outside time, he knows all things. He knows who will come of their own free will. And he gave them to Jesus before time began. When jesus declared he would take their sins.. by doing what he did and suffering, the lord God said if you do this, I will give these people to you.

Jesus himself even said it is the spirit hwo gives life. THE WORDS I SPEAK ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.

It all fits.. You just have to see it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#496
#496
ForestGreenCook said:
The sins were removed for those that Christ died for, which are those that the Father gave him, on the cross. The old testament saints, as well as the apostles, were regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which gave them the ABILITY to discern spiritual things, which they did not understand fully until after Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Ghost which REVEALS what Jesus had taught them. The examples you have given were regenerated men, not the natural man that has not been regenerated. You really should include ALL scriptures when trying to glean the truth. All scriptures harmonize if you are interpreting them right.
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Yes, And who did the father give him?

All who see and believe. (NOT ALL WHO GOD REGENERATED)

Think man

We are dead because of sin.

One can not be regenerated (made alive) while they are still under the penalty of sin that penalty must be removed first. This is called justification.

Justification MUST precede regeneration. That is just the fact..
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#499
Jul 8, 2018
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#499
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).

Why lookie here . . . personal responsibility to believe. Did Calvinists miss one? I know they really don't like context.

And it says may NOT shall . . .
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I study from the KJV because some other versions have changed, or eliminated, words to support salvation by works of man. Maybe you should compare your version to the KJV. Who has eyes to see and ears to hear spiritual things, not the natural man, void of the Holy Spirit.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#500
Jul 8, 2018
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#500
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Yea, the guy that said a couple of posts up . . . "You might also consider to include all scripture and not ignore some." likes verse 37 but he doesn't like verse 40 . . . so he don't consider that one.
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And every one which seeth the Son (those who have eyes to see spiritual things, which is not the natural man) and believeth on him (The natural man cannot believe in spiritual things until he has been given the Holy Spirit in regeneration). Now how about you considering verse 39 also. Can you explain that one to me?
 
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