Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[garee]

again, please read Ephesians 1:13:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


We heard
We trusted
We believed
We were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


Does "regeneration" occur before or after hearing?

During the hearing of faith. Previously having no faith as in natural man

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Rejecting or not rejecting, neither is the cause of their eternal deliverance. otherwise, it would be eternal salvation by works of man.

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29).

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:28-29).

 

[garee]

Yes, It is the work of God WE BELIEVE.

It is not Gods faith, It is our own.

It is HIS WILL, that whoever sees and believes shall never perish but has eternal life Shall never die, Has past from death to life and will be risen on the last day. Oh, And he will never lose any of them.

Many, do not acknowledge God works through His faith. called a work of faith. They say God does not have faith or neither does he need it

Our new faith is given to us with n cost on our behalf .It belongs to us as new creatures .But is not of us if it is of God. Can't serve two masters our ownself and God not seen

Romans 3 informs us what if some do not believe the gospel will their unbelief (no faith) work to make the faith of God without effect. To effect something is a work .

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.Romans 3:3-4

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Regeneration = Greek word paliggenesia (from 3825 /pálin, "again" and 1078 /génesis, "birth, beginning") – properly, the coming of new birth because "born again"; regeneration.


When you claim a person must be "regenerated" before he/she can hear the word of God, you are saying that a person must be born again before he/she can "hear" the Word which he/she trusts and believes which results in the believer being sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise (born again).


Again, look at Eph 1:13:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

We trusted after we heard the word of truth; then we believed the gospel of salvation; then we were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

Eph 1:13 does not state that regeneration occurs before hearing.

You are ascribing that "being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" is the same as "being born of the Holy Spirit" and that is not what it says. Being sealed is the "earnest or down payment" of our eternal life until the redemption (his coming back to take us home).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29).

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (John 6:28-29).

I agree with John 6:28-29, regeneration (Eph 2:5) is the work of God giving the natural man the ability to believe.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

You are ascribing that "being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" is the same as "being born of the Holy Spirit" and that is not what it says. Being sealed is the "earnest or down payment" of our eternal life until the redemption (his coming back to take us home).

And it happens AFTER we believed. That is WE BELIEVED not JESUS BELIEVE FOR US.

Help, you've fallen into error and can't get up!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I agree with John 6:28-29, regeneration (Eph 2:5) is the work of God giving the natural man the ability to believe.

It would appear form the context that these people did not believe . . . they choked on the idea of eating his flesh. Apparently they had not the capacity to believe yet Jesus invited them to believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It happens as God opens their ears to hear. No one is regenerated without hearing it, the word of God.

I think you are saying it the same way as I, but not real sure. God regenerates a person while he is YET spiritually dead and when regenerated he has the ability to believe.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I think you are saying it the same way as I, but not real sure. God regenerates a person while he is YET spiritually dead and when regenerated he has the ability to believe.

Yes. One who is spiritually dead can not truly hear the gospel. All they are is a natural man, devoid of God’s Spirit, dead in sin. Once someone presents them the gospel, and God quickens them, they now can hear, repent and believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It would appear form the context that these people did not believe . . . they choked on the idea of eating his flesh. Apparently they had not the capacity to believe yet Jesus invited them to believe.

I think you have it backwards.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I think you have it backwards.

Please explain my friend.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I think you are saying it the same way as I

I know you are not talking to me because I can assure you that I would never say something concerning salvation the same way as you.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please explain my friend.

The fact that they can believe is the work of God and that happens when God regenerates them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I know you are not talking to me because I can assure you that I would never say something concerning salvation the same way as you.

No, that was directed to sackclothandashes.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

quickening -to be made alive

The raising of Lazarus from the dead is a picture of the unsaved being saved by the sovereign hand of God. Lazarus is DEAD ( the bible uses the word for dead that signifies a corpse, can't be deader than that) Lazarus cannot choose to make himself live, he waits, dead in the tomb UNTIL Jesus CALLS HIM FORTH to new life. soli deo gloria

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Jesus said you MUST be born again.......Noone can cause his own birth, neither the physical one nor the spirital one

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus said you MUST be born again.......Noone can cause his own birth, neither the physical one nor the spirital one

Being born again is being born of the Holy Spirit of which I believe that Lazarus already was before his death. When he was in the tomb for 4 days his soul had already gone back to God who gave it. I believe that is why Jesus wept, because he brought him back from paradise. That is just me guessing.

 

[Hevosmies]

Rejecting or not rejecting, neither is the cause of their eternal deliverance. otherwise, it would be eternal salvation by works of man.

This is pure fatalism right here.

YOU DONT EVEN NEED TO ACCEPT JESUS TO BE SAVED. No faith required, no repentance required, no KNOWLEDGE of Jesus even required. Good stuff.
Just gotta believe in some "great Spirit" like the indians and believe in good hunting grounds after you die and BAM you are in.

Seriously? Where is any of this ridicilou stuff in the bible?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Being born again is being born of the Holy Spirit of which I believe that Lazarus already was before his death. When he was in the tomb for 4 days his soul had already gone back to God who gave it. I believe that is why Jesus wept, because he brought him back from paradise. That is just me guessing.

I said it as a PICTURE of the quickening, how one is dead and cannot raise themselves.
And YOU are just did a LOT of speculation.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

The fact that they can believe is the work of God and that happens when God regenerates them.

I agree with this. But God does this via the word, the gospel, that which saves people from their sins. No one is zapped and then later on they come to faith and repentance. As the gospel is being brought to the lost, God moves through it(the gospel) to bring them to saving faith in Christ.

Repentance and faith happen simultaneously, and this is done through the word of God as it is being used.