Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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This is pure fatalism right here.

YOU DONT EVEN NEED TO ACCEPT JESUS TO BE SAVED. No faith required, no repentance required, no KNOWLEDGE of Jesus even required. Good stuff.
Just gotta believe in some "great Spirit" like the indians and believe in good hunting grounds after you die and BAM you are in.

Seriously? Where is any of this ridicilou stuff in the bible?
You will never understand the scriptures to harmonize until you understand how to separate the salvation (deliverance) scriptures.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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It still seems that we are not on the same track. The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law of God that he does not understand. Only the regenerated child of God will repent. You understand that the child of God's repentance does not save him eternally, don't you? The gospel is not the cause of eternal salvation.
Without the gospel, none could, or would be saved.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Religion will not get you to heaven, Ony Faith will.

Those who have faith will work. But works have never saved anyone.
The full context is with several section of scripture combined.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Grace is a free gift from God.
Faith creates works.
No works no faith.

As James states it faith without works is dead.

Works doesn't save but no works no faith.

There are those who think they need to earn their way to salvation and at judgement time Jesus will say begone I never knew you.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Without the gospel, none could, or would be saved.
The four gospels were not until the new testament. How did all of the old testament saints get saved eternally without the gospel? Answer; Just like any of the elect that Christ died for, by being born again in regeneration and receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Not by their obedience of the gospel. There is a deliverance (salvation- not eternally) received in obedience to the gospel.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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The full context is with several section of scripture combined.
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Grace is a free gift from God.
Faith creates works.
No works no faith.

As James states it faith without works is dead.

Works doesn't save but no works no faith.

There are those who think they need to earn their way to salvation and at judgement time Jesus will say begone I never knew you.
There is a deliverance (salvation) by having faith in Jesus, but it is not eternal deliverance. We are created unto good works through regeneration and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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The four gospels were not until the new testament. How did all of the old testament saints get saved eternally without the gospel? Answer; Just like any of the elect that Christ died for, by being born again in regeneration and receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Not by their obedience of the gospel. There is a deliverance (salvation- not eternally) received in obedience to the gospel.
Look at Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 15:6. This is the gospel. Then in John 5:39 Jesus said...

39-40 “You have your heads in your Bibles constantly because you think you’ll find eternal life there. But you miss the forest for the trees. These Scriptures are all about me! And here I am, standing right before you, and you aren’t willing to receive from me the life you say you want.(John 5)

Now, the OT scriptures had the gospel in them my friend. The gospel is not some sort of NT construct, but has ever been since Genesis.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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The four gospels were not until the new testament. How did all of the old testament saints get saved eternally without the gospel? Answer; Just like any of the elect that Christ died for, by being born again in regeneration and receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Not by their obedience of the gospel. There is a deliverance (salvation- not eternally) received in obedience to the gospel.
10-11 But because God was so gracious, so very generous, here I am. And I’m not about to let his grace go to waste. Haven’t I worked hard trying to do more than any of the others? Even then, my work didn’t amount to all that much. It was God giving me the work to do, God giving me the energy to do it. So whether you heard it from me or from those others, it’s all the same: We spoke God’s truth and you entrusted your lives.(1 Cor. 15)

Here Paul is speaking about people believing the gospel. He labored harder than most of them, yet it was God working through him to proclaim it. Then the Hardshells come along with some new fangled idea of a twofold salvation and twofold faith that is not found anywhere in the bible. They have to twist it to fit their ideologies.

There is only one salvation, not two, my friend. There is no time salvation but one eternal salvation.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Religion will not get you to heaven, Ony Faith will.

Those who have faith will work. But works have never saved anyone.
God's religion according to his faith that works in us alone will because it alone can.. He will not forget the good works we worked with him offering the fruit toward his name.

In order to work something out you must have it to work with first. As always he must do the first works. the reveling of our first love. hearing God. when we fall we are to do the first works believe God as he gives us the faith to make it possible.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Philipian2:12-13

If Christ does not work by his faith or reasoning process to offer you His gospel. Then where would you get the faith to believe him?

I would offer if we would search out the spiritual meaning in the parable below (James 1:27) It would be encouragmente to help each other as those previously not having a heavenly father and were widowed, not married to Christ, (fatherless and widows ) as a special love to comfort one another with.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

You can never know what kind of surprise he has in store for us.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
But works have never saved anyone
Their mutual work the father and Son saved as many as the father gave to the Son to be His eternal bride.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
God's religion according to his faith that works in us alone will because it alone can.. He will not forget the good works we worked with him offering the fruit toward his name.

In order to work something out you must have it to work with first. As always he must do the first works. the reveling of our first love. hearing God. when we fall we are to do the first works believe God as he gives us the faith to make it possible.

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.Philipian2:12-13

If Christ does not work by his faith or reasoning process to offer you His gospel. Then where would you get the faith to believe him?

I would offer if we would search out the spiritual meaning in the parable below (James 1:27) It would be encouragmente to help each other as those previously not having a heavenly father and were widowed, not married to Christ, (fatherless and widows ) as a special love to comfort one another with.

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

You can never know what kind of surprise he has in store for us.

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.


Their mutual work the father and Son saved as many as the father gave to the Son to be His eternal bride.
Not of works lest anyone should boast.

If you could work at religion, and be saved because of that, Jesus came in vein. Why bother comming and suffering if man could pay for their own sins.

James spoke of HOW BELIEVERS (CHILDREN OF GOD) Should act. Not how we get to heaven.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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Look at Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 15:6. This is the gospel. Then in John 5:39 Jesus said...

39-40 “You have your heads in your Bibles constantly because you think you’ll find eternal life there. But you miss the forest for the trees. These Scriptures are all about me! And here I am, standing right before you, and you aren’t willing to receive from me the life you say you want.(John 5)

Now, the OT scriptures had the gospel in them my friend. The gospel is not some sort of NT construct, but has ever been since Genesis.
You need to ditch the version of bible you are referencing and compare it with the KJV. Nowhere in the old testament is the word gospel mentioned. The gospel = The narrative of the sayings, deeds, and death of Jesus Christ came to be called the gospel, or good tidings.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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Not of works lest anyone should boast.

If you could work at religion, and be saved because of that, Jesus came in vein. Why bother comming and suffering if man could pay for their own sins.

James spoke of HOW BELIEVERS (CHILDREN OF GOD) Should act. Not how we get to heaven.
I am proud of you, those are very true statements.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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10-11 But because God was so gracious, so very generous, here I am. And I’m not about to let his grace go to waste. Haven’t I worked hard trying to do more than any of the others? Even then, my work didn’t amount to all that much. It was God giving me the work to do, God giving me the energy to do it. So whether you heard it from me or from those others, it’s all the same: We spoke God’s truth and you entrusted your lives.(1 Cor. 15)

Here Paul is speaking about people believing the gospel. He labored harder than most of them, yet it was God working through him to proclaim it. Then the Hardshells come along with some new fangled idea of a twofold salvation and twofold faith that is not found anywhere in the bible. They have to twist it to fit their ideologies.

There is only one salvation, not two, my friend. There is no time salvation but one eternal salvation.
I see no mention as to how the old testament saints had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and had never heard the gospel. You will never be able to harmonize the King James version of the scriptures with your lack of knowledge until you rightly divide the salvation scriptures. Most of them have reference to a deliverance here on earth and not on eternal deliverance. Acts 2:40 - An with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, SAVE yourselves from this untoward generation. Are you going to tell me that the word "save" has reference to eternal life? If so, then it would be eternal salvation (deliverance) by the works of man.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Yep, that was me.

Now, when you answer the above I will answer your question about the elect only hearing, but not until then.

I was quite clear , and so is John 3:3, no person can see (perceive) the Kingdom of God until they are born again. You've gone into whether people can hear THE GOSPEL or not other than the elect.
And I was quite clear in my post #585 when I responded ForestGreenCook's statement that "before a person can hear and believe the spiritual gospel they would have to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is given at regeneration".

I then asked if a person must be born again before he/she can hear the gospel.

You then jumped into the discussion with your statement "God works this in the heart of the elect when they hear the Gospel."

Which prompted my questions to you:

Can everyone "hear the Gospel"?

In other words, does a person have to be "elect" to be able to "hear the Gospel"?

Questions you refuse to answer until I discuss some side issue you brought up.




preacher4truth said:
But, I can understand why you don't want to answer the above "quote" of mine you've used. I'd like you to answer what I actually stated instead of moving on to something else and wanting an answer to that as if you never saw what I said. So, one more time, answer the above, then I will most gladly answer your other question. Thank you.
I asked you a question. You do not want to answer until I go down some rabbit trail with you. Not interested in further discussion with you concerning this issue. Thank you.



 
Mar 23, 2016
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Rejecting or not rejecting, neither is the cause of their eternal deliverance. otherwise, it would be eternal salvation by works of man.
According to 1 Cor 1:21, God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Since preaching the gospel is God's chosen manner of saving mankind, and you claim otherwise, I think I'll stick with God.

Foolishness to you.

Eternal life to them that believe.



 
Mar 23, 2016
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It happens as God opens their ears to hear. No one is regenerated without hearing it, the word of God.
Right. Hear, trust, believe, then sealed.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Hear - - - believe - - - call on the Lord Jesus Christ.


 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Nowhere in the old testament is the word gospel mentioned.
True. At the same time, we are told IN THE NEW TESTAMENT that the Gospel was preached to the Israelites in the wilderness, yet they did not believe.

HEBREWS 3 & 4
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

1
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached --
(εὐηγγελισμένοι = having had the Gospel preached) -- as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

We know of at least one incident referred to by Christ which would fit this:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:14,15)

This once again refutes limited atonement. *Whosoever believeth* means anyone and everyone who believes the Gospel, not *whosoever is elect and believes*.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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You need to ditch the version of bible you are referencing and compare it with the KJV. Nowhere in the old testament is the word gospel mentioned. The gospel = The narrative of the sayings, deeds, and death of Jesus Christ came to be called the gospel, or good tidings.
This is evidence you don't see or pay attention to what is said. If you did you'd see your error.

He didn't say the word "Gospel" was in the OT. Maybe try to go read what he actually said, and understand it? Goodness sake man.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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You are ascribing that "being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" is the same as "being born of the Holy Spirit" and that is not what it says. Being sealed is the "earnest or down payment" of our eternal life until the redemption (his coming back to take us home).
In Post #649 you stated

Regeneration occurs before hearing, trusting and believing in spiritual things. No Holy Spirit (which is given in regeneration = being born of the Spirit) no spiritual discerning).

According to your own statement:

No Holy Spirit (which is given in regeneration = being born of the spirit)

So in Post #649, it appears you are saying Holy Spirit is given in regeneration.


You also state:

Regeneration occurs before hearing, trusting and believing in spiritual things.

It appears you are saying a person is born again before hearing, trusting, believing.

So according to you, a person must be regenerated (born again) before he or she hears, trusts, believes.

That is not what is stated in Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

Heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation

Then believed the word of truth the gospel of your salvation

Then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.


You've got people born again [regenerated] before they can hear the word of truth the gospel of salvation.



 
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