Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[soggykitten]

It's worse than that Soggy. Calvin did not even invent the 5 points or 'tulip' as it is often referred to. So actually, people are following the Synod of Dort. That particular event occurred in response to one Jacobus Arminius. Some in this following were against certain points of Calvin's, but they did not know nuthin bout no tulips and may never have been to Holland.

disclaimer: not arguing against Calvinism, the good people here can make up their own minds

not arguing for Mr Arminius cause I can't squeeze the whole truth and nothing but the truth out of him either

I'm going to look up Synod of Dort .
Thanks.

 

[preacher4truth]

Calvin did not even invent the 5 points or 'tulip' as it is often referred to. So actually, people are following the Synod of Dort.

Yep. It has been stated on here Calvin coined TULIP and said untruth is due to an unfamiliarity with Reformed Theology. This from a guy who studied Calvinism in Seminary, yet made a huge rudimentary error. A basic understanding of Calvin would include knowing he didn't coin TULIP.

Straw man arguments, false assertions and baseless assumptions are all too common. Sometimes they come along with self-proclaimed expertise on a subject yet the claims are still found to be erroneous and baseless.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-7375#post-4313188


https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/not-by-works.146296/page-7370#post-4312863

 

[soggykitten]

I'm going to look up Synod of Dort .
Thanks.

I found information.
This is going to take longer to read and study than I thought. I wanted to share this meanwhile. I found it at this site. https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/confessions/canons-dort

The Synod of Dort was held in order to settle a serious controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism. Jacob Arminius, a theological professor at Leiden University, questioned the teaching of Calvin and his followers on a number of important points. After Arminius’s death, his own followers presented their views on five of these points in the Remonstrance of 1610. In this document and in later more explicit writings, the Arminians taught election based on foreseen faith, the universal application of Christ’s atonement available to all who freely choose to accept it, limited human depravity, the resistibility of God’s grace, and the possibility of a fall from salvation. In the Canons the Synod of Dort rejected these views and set forth the Reformed teaching on these points with the purpose of offering a deeper assurance of salvation to believers in accordance with the teaching of the Scriptures.
The Canons are thus unique among the Reformed confessions because of their original purpose as a judicial decision on the doctrinal points in dispute during the Arminian controversy. The original preface called them a “judgment, in which both the true view, agreeing with God’s Word, concerning the aforesaid five points of doctrine, is explained, and the false view, disagreeing with God’s Word, is rejected.” The Canons also have a narrower scope than the Belgic Confession and the Heidelberg Catechism in that they do not cover the whole range of doctrine but focus on the five points of doctrine in dispute.

Now I have to look up the Belgic Confession and Heidelberg Catechism.

Glad I made the edit timeline. I just want to say, did Jesus want it to be this involved?You know, to hold faith in his message? Lots to read now after talking to you,lenna.

 

[oyster67]

I'm going to look up Synod of Dort .
Thanks.

Then you can start a Dort thread and tell us all about it.

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't see myself taking a course in TULIP 101 anytime soon. Sorry about that too.

OK, how about Scripture in Context 101 for starters?

 

[dcontroversal]

Some are offended by the idea that God chose us. I am not, and I know if He didn’t “quicken” me, I would never have been saved: It is not just that passage that speaks of Him choosing us:

1 Peter 2:9
Verse Concepts
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Ephesians 1:4-5
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
John 6:44
Verse Concepts
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Romans 8:28
Verse Concepts
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Ephesians 2:10
Verse Concepts
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Ephesians 1:11
Verse Concepts
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Romans 8:29
Verse Concepts
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Romans 8:30
Verse Concepts
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
John 15:16
Verse Concepts
You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

And who would be the "some" in your post?

More like....some can see right through the holes in Calvin's dogma, the same dogma being sold and peddled to this very day!

 

[lenna]

I found information.
This is going to take longer to read and study than I thought. I wanted to share this meanwhile. I found it at this site. https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/confessions/canons-dort

The Synod of Dort was held in order to settle a serious controversy in the Dutch churches initiated by the rise of Arminianism. Jacob Arminius, a theological professor at Leiden University, questioned the teaching of Calvin and his followers on a number of important points. After Arminius’s death, his own followers presented their views on five of these points in the Remonstrance of 1610. In this document and in later more explicit writings, the Arminians taught election based on foreseen faith, the universal application of Christ’s atonement available to all who freely choose to accept it, limited human depravity, the resistibility of God’s grace, and the possibility of a fall from salvation. In the Canons the Synod of Dort rejected these views and set forth the Reformed teaching on these points with the purpose of offering a deeper assurance of salvation to believers in accordance with the teaching of the Scriptures.
The Canons are thus unique among the Reformed confessions because of their original purpose as a judicial decision on the doctrinal points in dispute during the Arminian controversy. The original preface called them a “judgment, in which both the true view, agreeing with God’s Word, concerning the aforesaid five points of doctrine, is explained, and the false view, disagreeing with God’s Word, is rejected.” The Canons also have a narrower scope than the Belgic Confession and the Heidelberg Catechism in that they do not cover the whole range of doctrine but focus on the five points of doctrine in dispute.

Now I have to look up the Belgic Confession and Heidelberg Catechism.

Glad I made the edit timeline. I just want to say, did Jesus want it to be this involved?You know, to hold faith in his message? Lots to read now after talking to you,lenna.

I like to read lots myself. Never know what you might find. I think most non-Calvinists believe he did invent the 'tulip' method of biblical understanding

 

[oyster67]

OK, how about Scripture in Context 101 for starters?

Ouch! Got me again.

 

[dcontroversal]

Does the Bible not say to choose life? If we have no choice, is that untrue?

Joshua said "As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" If he had no choice how could he say that?

If we have no choice, is God just?

Even Jesus had to take flesh and choose....he was given milk and honey as a child that he may know to CHOOSE the good over the evil......from front to back the bible drips choice and if there is no choice....what is the point of the creation testifying and the invisible testifying so that they are without EXCUSE!

ALL THAT COME TO ME I WILL GIVE FREELY JESUS said!

 

[preacher4truth]

Ouch! Got me again.

So, we can begin there?

Also, can you tell me what you think Irresistible Grace teaches? You made some conclusions on the doctrine so this is why I ask.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi @eternally-gratefull ...
But did God not first by His grace , give us the gift of faith to believe in His Son our Lord and Savior ?
...xox...

Do you think this alleviates choice?

MANY ARE CALLED, but few chosen.

So.....tell me what happened to the many that were called with the irrevocable call of GOD and why were they not chosen?

Tragic to see you being led astray!

 

[oyster67]

I like to read lots myself. Never know what you might find. I think most non-Calvinists believe he did invent the 'tulip' method of biblical understanding

They were both inspired by the selfsame spirit.

 

[oyster67]

So, we can begin there?

Also, can you tell me what you think Irresistible Grace teaches? You made some conclusions on the doctrine so this is why I ask.

Sure. Calvinism teaches trash from the pit of Hell.

 

[soggykitten]

I like to read lots myself. Never know what you might find. I think most non-Calvinists believe he did invent the 'tulip' method of biblical understanding

That's what I thought . I think it is because we hear of Calvin and TULIP exclusively. No sub-text or precursor, just Calvin and TULIP are conflated as one having created the other.

 

[dcontroversal]

This seems to be your battle-cry. Nothing in the Bible pertains to you.

I don't even need to see who you are talking to to know who it is.....Bad day coming for the one leading the charge to lead those weak in the faith astray...!

 

[soggykitten]

Then you can start a Dort thread and tell us all about it.

Funny guy. Optimistic too. I am sure there are more people here that are able to do that than this one who just started reading.

 

[dcontroversal]

That salutation doesn't invite a discussion now does it? You're totally unshakable in what you perceive are these truths.
What's your real point?

His point.....I believe in Calvin's doctrine in the same manner a Mormon would believe in Joseph Smith's doctrine.

 

[soggykitten]

OK, I'm off to read more. I'm sure this discussion will be here when I come back all edumacated on Dort, the Belgic Confession and Heidelberg Catechism.

 

[dcontroversal]

Sure. Calvinism teaches trash from the pit of Hell.

Amen to that one....it can be lumped in with...

Mormonism
Catholicism
Buddhism
Taoism

and all the other isms created by men....

 

[preacher4truth]

Sure. Calvinism teaches trash from the pit of Hell.

OK, you can believe that if you wish though it is patently false and borne out of unfamiliarity.

To be honest all I've seen in your claims and usage of Scripture thus far are straw man arguments and out of context errors respectively. It reminds me of Hebrews 5:13.

I'm fine with you not wanting to tell me what Irresistible Grace actually teaches because your conclusions show you're also unfamiliar and unskilled in that area as well.