Can I change reality with my words?

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Jan 12, 2019
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See you have read me wrong.

I pray to understand God's will my life no matter what the situation is. If he asks me to die upon the Cross for His sake, I ask for the courage and love to be like Jesus , the apostles, Paul, the prophets, etc and walk in His love even knowing that suffering awaits me.

My life is not about me and what I want, but a way to testify about God and how much he wants His children to turn from their wicked ways and follow him with their whole hearts.
You can of course believe whatever you want, it’s between god and you.

As for me, I believe that Jesus took my diseases at the cross, so that I can be healthy. :) I am not honoring his finished work by claiming that salvation is paid for but healing is not included.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Many are willing to claim blessings and good health and wealth.

How many are willing to suffer, be beaten, enslaved, be homeless and penniless for God's sake?

Wide is the road to hell and narrow is the way to heaven.

Do you follow Jesus and are willing to die upon a cross?

Or are you just an adulterer?
You don’t suffer what Jesus has suffered for you on the cross. :)

He is not glorified when you believe the wrong things.
 
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There is also a story regarding this discussion.

Years ago, before transatlantic flight was common, a man wanted to travel to the United States from Europe. The man worked hard, saved every extra penny he could, and finally had just enough money to purchase a ticket aboard a cruise ship. The trip at that time required about two or three weeks to cross the ocean. He went out and bought a suitcase and filled it full of cheese and crackers. That's all he could afford.Once on board, all the other passengers went to the large, ornate dining room to eat their gourmet meals. Meanwhile, the poor man would go over in the corner and eat his cheese and crackers.

This went on day after day. He could smell the delicious food being served in the dining room. He heard the other passengers speak of it in glowing terms as they rubbed their bellies and complained about how full they were, and how they would have to go on a diet after this trip. The poor traveler wanted to join the other guests in the dining room, but he had no extra money. Sometimes he'd lie awake at night, dreaming of the sumptuous meals the other guests described.

Toward the end of the trip, another man came up to him and said, "Sir, I can't help but notice that you are always over there eating those cheese and crackers at mealtimes. Why don't you come into the banquet hall and eat with us?"The traveler's face flushed with embarrassment. "Well, to tell you the truth, I had only enough money to buy the ticket. I don't have any extra money to purchase fancy meals."The other passenger raised his eyebrows in surprise. He shook his head and said, "Sir, don't you realize the meals are included in the price of the ticket? Your meals have already been paid for!"

When I first heard that story, I couldn't help but think of how many people are similar to that naive traveler. They are missing out on God's best because they don't realize that the good things in life have already been paid for. They may be on their way to heaven, but they don't know what has been included in the price of their ticket.
Thanks for this story-- At a Bible study taught by a Lutheran pastor several years ago, he used the same example except he said that the ticket to board the ship is free--we can go out and buy one, but only the free ticket is accepted; pretty sure that's how he said it, or something similar-- the ship of life represents a power greater than ourselves that saves us and protects us, and once on-board we still must obey the rules of the ship and Captain's authority--JESUS and the Bible and church. Even if there is a passing cloud, the sun remains the same, even if we can't see it or feel it-- we know it's there. If someone becomes ill on-board, they might feel forsaken or alone, but in the infirmary, or their room--still safely on the ship; free medical care too. If they disobey the rules, they may be below deck, even have their key taken away, and might feel abandoned, but, feelings don't create reality-- one person's feelings can not change the reality of the ship, which is greater, or change the reality of the sun even if they believe freedom is not there. But, if someone comes to believe, like in this story, that the meals are not free, it will effect reality, or if they believe their door is locked because someone said so, when it is not.

Whenever I feel weak inside and not able to hold onto the truth, I ask the Lord to help me believe His reality, supported by the truth of the Bible through scriptures, and not try to create it on my own. OUr own minds or hearts, or resources are not great enough to either justify or condemn us--neither do the fallen angels have authority, except to attempt to gain influence through deception; but our own wrong beliefs can effect our freedom. As John said: "if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and knows all things." And Paul: "God knows who are His." And Jesus: "I have not lost one of My sheep." And John again: "If we love others it is a confirmation of being one" and Peter: "if we obey the Lord we have a reassurance of not being ashamed when He appears."
(paraphrases for now). And James and all the Apostles and Bible evangelists confirm the same truths.
just some thoughts on spiritual freedom from some stormy seas--
 

AgapeShellArt

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Nov 21, 2018
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You don’t suffer what Jesus has suffered for you on the cross. :)

He is not glorified when you believe the wrong things.
"Pick up your cross and follow me"

Who do you think spoke those words?

No God is not glorified when you believe the wrong things.
 

AgapeShellArt

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Nov 21, 2018
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"we can go out and buy one, but only the free ticket is accepted"

Good point...if you think you pay for your salvation/ticket then you may not be on the boat to heaven at all.
 

AgapeShellArt

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
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You can of course believe whatever you want, it’s between god and you.

As for me, I believe that Jesus took my diseases at the cross, so that I can be healthy. :) I am not honoring his finished work by claiming that salvation is paid for but healing is not included.
Which is more important salvation of the body or the soul?

Healing is included but so is death of these human bodies and resurrection of new bodies in Christ upon His return.

Note the difference between God and god.

The godss of this world lie, don't be ensnared by their lies.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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"Pick up your cross and follow me"

Who do you think spoke those words?

No God is not glorified when you believe the wrong things.
Okay, to me, its clear you don't regard healing from physical diseases as part of the finished work of the cross.

That is fine, many Christians share that view too. We will still see each other in heaven. :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Which is more important salvation of the body or the soul?
You don't seem to get my point when I asked,

If you are saved, but currently battling symptoms of disease, do you think that Jesus also paid for your healing?
Of course salvation of the spirit is the most important. But after you are saved, are you willing to trust that Jesus has also paid for your physical body to be healthy?
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
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We use words when we pray to change reality...
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Luke 4
23And he said to them, “Doubtless you will quote to me this proverb, ‘“Physician, heal yourself.” What we have heard you did at Capernaum, do here in your hometown as well.’” 24And he said, “Truly, I say to you, no prophet is acceptable in his hometown. 25But in truth, I tell you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heavens were shut up three years and six months, and a great famine came over all the land, 26and Elijah was sent to none of them but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27And there were many lepersa in Israel in the time of the prophet Elisha, and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian.” 28When they heard these things, all in the synagogue were filled with wrath.
Its interesting that you use Old Testament examples when I ask for scriptures stating that people approach Jesus for healing but he declined to heal them.

But this story used by Jesus can be viewed from this perspective, the Jews were asking Jesus but Jesus used the story of 2 Gentiles to illustrate wealth, for the widow, and health, for the leper.

But Jesus is saying that "health and wealth", terms that Christians nowadays are so critical about, comes to people who don't deserve them. Jesus is telling his Jewish listeners that the Gentiles claim those by faith. This made all those listeners mad and they wanted to throw Jesus off the cliff.

A very similar incident happened to Paul in Acts 22. Paul was talking about Jesus and how he was saved. The Jews were calm until he talked about how God is sending him to the Gentiles, then all hell broke loose

Acts 22
17 “Now it happened, when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying in the temple, that I was in a trance 18 and saw Him saying to me, ‘Make haste and get out of Jerusalem quickly, for they will not receive your testimony concerning Me.’ 19 So I said, ‘Lord, they know that in every synagogue I imprisoned and beat those who believe on You. 20 And when the blood of Your martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by consenting [b]to his death, and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’ 21 Then He said to me, ‘Depart, for I will send you far from here to the Gentiles.’ ”

22 And they listened to him until this word, and then they raised their voices and said, “Away with such a fellow from the earth, for he is not fit to live!”
 

AgapeShellArt

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
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We use words when we pray to change reality...
When we pray we don't change the world...God changes how we see and feel about what He is doing in it

Thus our reality changes to be closer to God's truth instead of the lies of this world.
 

AgapeShellArt

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
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You don't seem to get my point when I asked,



Of course salvation of the spirit is the most important. But after you are saved, are you willing to trust that Jesus has also paid for your physical body to be healthy?
You don't get my point that this body will die and Jesus promises resurrected bodies when He returns.

Nor do you seem willing to take up your cross and follow Jesus.
 

AgapeShellArt

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
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Okay, to me, its clear you don't regard healing from physical diseases as part of the finished work of the cross.

That is fine, many Christians share that view too. We will still see each other in heaven. :)
No I don't see these bodies as eternal. God has miraculously healed many people I know of physical illness. They continue to do God's work.

However the focus is not on the miracles but on the ability of His children to carry the Gospel to others. The focus is on loving and being a light unto the world no matter what state you are in, be content for God has given you all you need to live a godly life now. Be thankful and praise God always.
 

ToastAndTea

Well-known member
Jul 31, 2018
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We use words when we pray to change reality...
When we pray in accordance with God's will, He hears us. When our thoughts are in line with His thoughts, we will pray right prayers. Then He will give us what we ask for. It's not we who change reality but God.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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You don't get my point that this body will die and Jesus promises resurrected bodies when He returns.

Nor do you seem willing to take up your cross and follow Jesus.
I get your point, you don't believe physical healing is part of the finished work. :)
 

AgapeShellArt

Active member
Nov 21, 2018
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I get your point, you don't believe physical healing is part of the finished work. :)
That's like saying you believe these bodies will never die.

If you want to misrepresent my beliefs, that's your choice.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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That's like saying you believe these bodies will never die.

If you want to misrepresent my beliefs, that's your choice.
Moses was 120 years old when he died, yet his eyesight was clear, and he was as strong as ever.

Do you know you can die without sickness? :)
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Well, if you believe this is one Thing, to deceive believers with a false Doctrine is a different thing.
All those around David were deceived.

Its like you see God standing in honor and power,and backing up his word and men as deception.
You see his power as long gone,a thing of stories and past victories.