Can Mosaic Law commend you to God

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can the Law make you righteous enough to enter God's presence?

  • yes

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • no

    Votes: 19 95.0%

  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#61
True. It is very flawed logic. Christians are told to obey the morals of Christ which are included in some of the Mosaic laws.
Some but not others? And who is it that tells us which ones? Or did God just leave us on our one to guess and hopw we guess right?

Yet Christ made them more strict then what the Jews were to obey. Jesus said we have to watch our very thoughts. If we think lustful thoughts about another female, we have committed adultery. If we think about killing a person Jesus says we are guilty of murder. And of what Jew would rip his eye out if if offended him but Christ told His followers to do that. Jesus showed us the moral laws or more complicated and more strict than the Jews ever imagined. So when they call us lawless it is completely in error.
Uh, teaching that we do not have to obey them all, specifically the fourth one, is teaching one to abide by law?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,396
194
63
#62
So, what does this mean?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
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BradC

Guest
#63
Every man that is born into this life has a light within. This light is the light that lightest every man that comes into the world and it corresponds to the light of law they have written on the conscience part of the mind and heart. Morally, any man that follows this light will be lead to the true light, Christ, but at that point can reject the true light. Others who have violated that light will not come on their own less their evil deeds be reproved. Legalism has failed to bring conviction and has instead brought condemnation when man was condemned already. This is where the Holy Spirit comes in to convict the world of sin where the law has been weak through the flesh to do so.

This is where many preachers have been accused of heresy because they understand this principle of light in man. This is the light that can turn into darkness to lead the individual further astray into the Kingdom of darkness and how great is that darkness. To overcome darkness there must be a saturation of light continually exposing the darkness through mercy and grace and not the letter of the law. The letter of the law works death so the Spirit must be the agent that takes the word and brings light and life into the heart of man whose deeds are evil. The gospel of Christ must be brought to all nations and to every people group that they may hear the name of Christ in the light of the glorious gospel that brings salvation in His name under all of heaven.

This is why it is important for us as God's dear children to walk in the light as He is in the light and to let that light shine continually before men so that they can see the work of the Father that has come through His Son. When we sin we break fellowship with the light and we must confess it to God immediately and be restored to the fellowship we have in the light, not just for our sake but for the sake of Christ who must be preached in all the world.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#64
Some but not others? And who is it that tells us which ones? Or did God just leave us on our one to guess and hopw we guess right?
I am sure we all understand that not every law pertains to the moral laws, hence, the reason he used the word "some". Who tells us. Maybe the Holy Spirit? The Law is good for our understanding to make sure the spirit speaking to us is leading according to God's Law, but it is, nevertheless, the Lord himself who leads Christians on His path. I am sure this Lawgiver leads by that same Law He spoke beforehand.


Uh, teaching that we do not have to obey them all, specifically the fourth one, is teaching one to abide by law?
Do we not honor the Lord of Sabbath when we partake of the rest He offers?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#65
So, what does this mean?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
And do we not keep those commands through Love? Who is the one who says that we can steal, lie, cheat? Surely, love covers that....
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,396
194
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#66
And do we not keep those commands through Love? Who is the one who says that we can steal, lie, cheat? Surely, love covers that....
Those Commands are love...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#67
Those Commands are love...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
So is it not then that the Holy Spirit leads by love and we are under obligation to fulfill the moral laws of the Law and not as some would say that we need to keep the whole Law (first 5 books of the Old Covenant)?
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
0
#68
Can you be saved by obeying the Law of Moses?
Will you be found righteous in God's sight by The Law?
The answer to your first question is no, but it shows us the direction to go where salvation can be obtained.
The answer to your second question is yes according to sacrifice, and yet no according to the physical rituals. The temple's sacrifices, prayer, offerings, and washing are still taking place, in full force, within the believers body. In that respect, righteousness is found in this "Law of Liberty."

James 1:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 9:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

verse 14 is a warning.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,396
194
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#69
So is it not then that the Holy Spirit leads by love and we are under obligation to fulfill the moral laws of the Law and not as some would say that we need to keep the whole Law (first 5 books of the Old Covenant)?
Kinda like Will Rogers, all I know is what I read...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#70
Kinda like Will Rogers, all I know is what I read...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Do we then follow the Law or the Lawgiver to that Promised Land?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#71
Kinda like Will Rogers, all I know is what I read...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Are you saying that we are under the whole Law or the moral Laws of the Old Covenant?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,396
194
63
#72
Are you saying that we are under the whole Law or the moral Laws of the Old Covenant?

No, I am not, Christ is. He is the one who spoke Luke 16:17. Don't make that my statement, I simply quoted it.

There are those Laws that we cannot obey presently, they require a Temple and a Levitical Priesthood. There are those Laws that require a Theocratic government to obey, i.e. enforcing penalties up to and including the death penalty. Then there are those Laws that have been shown to have a Spiritual fulfillment, i.e. circumcision. That leaves Ten Commandments and certain others that do not fall in the above categories.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,589
6,821
113
#73
Does not the new spirit we have received give us discernment as to which are the good laws to follow and which are not. Are you still so hung up on the fear of the curse of the law not to allow the new man to discern?

The Gospel of Jesus, His Example should be more than enough for understanding, coupled with the new man you are supposed to be.

We all know by our Lord, Yeshua, when the law requires the penalty of death, He gives abundant mercy, always. Sinners do not judge sinners; He also demonstrates this by His actions.

The ultimate and only Sacrifice for sin is in the cleansing Blood of our Savior. We live in grace because of Him, with no more fear of the curse of the law, yet, the law is good, that is the teachings and all good direction from the laws.

It is time to stop disputing what is good and live according to our new Spirit without the fleshy mind questioning what we have already been given to know.

If a person lives in the grace of Jesus Christ, he should no longer be afraid of the law, and he should definitely never say the law is abolished. To say it is abolished is an abomination.

Thus if we keep our Lord's Example and teaching, we also know not to judge anyone, especially to condemnation, that takes care of a lot of the bad laws. We do not make offerings for sin after the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, for there is none after Him. We are not yet unified as the nation of Yawheh, God, in this age, so obviously we are not able to follow the geographical laws, etc. What is all the confusion?

If you have received the Holy Spirit, and you believe you are a new person, conduct yourself as such, and reason in the Holy Spirit with Yeshua as your Guide and Light.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#74
No, I am not, Christ is. He is the one who spoke Luke 16:17. Don't make that my statement, I simply quoted it.

There are those Laws that we cannot obey presently, they require a Temple and a Levitical Priesthood. There are those Laws that require a Theocratic government to obey, i.e. enforcing penalties up to and including the death penalty. Then there are those Laws that have been shown to have a Spiritual fulfillment, i.e. circumcision. That leaves Ten Commandments and certain others that do not fall in the above categories.
So then, all which remains are the moral laws?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#75
No, I am not, Christ is. He is the one who spoke Luke 16:17. Don't make that my statement, I simply quoted it.

There are those Laws that we cannot obey presently, they require a Temple and a Levitical Priesthood. There are those Laws that require a Theocratic government to obey, i.e. enforcing penalties up to and including the death penalty. Then there are those Laws that have been shown to have a Spiritual fulfillment, i.e. circumcision. That leaves Ten Commandments and certain others that do not fall in the above categories.
How can we be under the whole Law and yet are not able, for one reason or another, to keep the whole Law? Either we MUST keep the whole Law or we fail it all. Not one part of the Law can be left out. But, while under Christ, we fulfill that part of the Law which is called the moral Law, while He, in the present, fulfills and will fulfill the rest. So, by Christ, Christians do fulfill the whole Law, while yet under the Old Covenant, the Law is not fulfilled because it lacks the part Christ has fulfilled.
 
W

weakness

Guest
#76
​We all know the vs. ,so, if I do not lust in my heart toward a woman then I will never commit the act of adultery, right. This is really about the Sabbath, I think.We all have read Paul's letter to the Hebrews. That there still remains a rest to the people of God, and that they did not enter in before. Even though from the time of there deliverance ,the red sea ,their spiritual and supernatural sustainment by God with water and bread and meat and their cloths didn't wear out ect,ect . They could not rest in God love and works for them,because of unbelief. Even though God set aside a day to remind them ,it was his works that delivered them and not there own. Now I see that I need to accept Gods works done for me as all that's Good. So I, with all my heart, labor to enter and stay in that rest 24-7 and depend on his works and obey him .Now just as the example of adultery ,if I rest in him everyday will i not be also resting in him one day a week also. Do not I exceed the law of the scribes and pharisees? if , in my heart I obey God ,would not the outside of the dish be clean also? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks,and I will add out of the abundance of the heart I rest in God. I am not disobeying Gods command to Honor him with the Glory due him as a loving father cares for his children " honor your father and mother" I am honoring him and esteeming him the faithfulness and glory due to him every day. (trying anyway) So get over it . Iv not come to destroy the law but try to fulfill it by abiding in his Spirit within me everyday.
 
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
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#77
You all know that this post was for the purpose of starting another conflict. Right? The same arguments will continue. Have a nice visit. May the truth be manifested, and hopefully be enlightening to all that are truly looking for clarity.
 
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danschance

Guest
#78
You all know that this post was for the purpose of starting another conflict. Right? The same arguments will continue. Have a nice visit. May the truth be manifested, and hopefully be enlightening to all that are truly looking for clarity.
Or it might bring people to the truth, as the Hebrew Roots Movement is a demonic ploy. Gal 5:4 states that Christians who think they are being justified by the law are severed from Christ, a serious assertion. There is no value in obeying the Mosaic laws:
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romas 7:6
 
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BradC

Guest
#79
We do not take on the burden of fulfilling the law, instead we rest and abide in Christ who has fulfilled the law on our behalf. Not only has he done this but also put away all the sin the law revealed. He received the condemnation of the law through death on behalf of our sin as our efficacious substitute sacrifice. It is unbelief on our part if we do not accept what Christ did in fulfilling the law and the righteousness that he offers when we believe it. Christ did not keep the law but rather fulfilled all the righteous demands of the law being filled with the Spirit. In being filled with the Spirit he is our example and our righteousness that we receive by faith.

In fulfilling the law and through his death he condemned sin in his flesh and made the law obsolete in it's purpose to bring us to Christ. Now the Holy Spirit convicts the heart of sin and draw us to the Son and not the law. The law writes to the flesh of man to not commit adultery but the Spirit brings conviction to the heart of man to abstain from the lust of the flesh which would lead us into adultery. We respond to the Spirit's conviction and not the letter of the law. When we respond to conviction God gives us grace so that we can have strength through faith to abstain, something the law could never provide. The law can not give us grace or the power to resist temptation.
 
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danschance

Guest
#80
Some but not others? And who is it that tells us which ones? Or did God just leave us on our one to guess and hopw we guess right?

Uh, teaching that we do not have to obey them all, specifically the fourth one, is teaching one to abide by law?

I think this verse states it all:
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6
The Mosaic law is not to be obeyed by the Christian as the above verse clearly states.