Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?

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Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
Almost all prophesies point to the physical restoration of Israel’s kingdom. The truth of the cross was a mystery.
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When will the restoration of the Kingdom be?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
Even after resurrection, shortly before the Lord’s ascension, the disciples were still looking for the kingdom to be restored.

Acts 1
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
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That’s not addressing the confusion aspect. In fact it’s give more confusion.
 
J

John146

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Aerials1978 said:
When will the restoration of the Kingdom be?
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At the second coming of Jesus as King of Kings. He will rule the earth with a rod of iron and Israel will be able to worship the Lord without fear of their enemies.
 
J

John146

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Aerials1978 said:
That’s not addressing the confusion aspect. In fact it’s give more confusion.
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What it proves is that disciples were looking for and preaching about this kingdom during the days of Jesus.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
At the second coming of Jesus as King of Kings. He will rule the earth with a rod of iron and Israel will be able to worship the Lord without fear of their enemies.
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So Jesus was speaking of a spiritual Kingdom. Of course we agree on that. Again I would like to ask that if a man is born a Jew, but becomes a believer, would he be with Christ? If not, how could he go to Sheol if there are no more Levitical sacrifices? How is atonement made?
 
J

John146

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Aerials1978 said:
So Jesus was speaking of a spiritual Kingdom. Of course we agree on that. Again I would like to ask that if a man is born a Jew, but becomes a believer, would he be with Christ? If not, how could he go to Sheol if there are no more Levitical sacrifices? How is atonement made?
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Now? In the Church age? He would no longer be a Jew but part of the body of Christ. He would be with the Lord upon death or at the gathering.
 
J

John146

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Aerials1978 said:
That didn’t include grace?
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Grace for what? It was not concerning eternal salvation, but a physical deliverance from their enemies. I guess that could be considered grace.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
Now? In the Church age? He would no longer be a Jew but part of the body of Christ. He would be with the Lord upon death or at the gathering.
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Now what about if he wasn’t? Where is the atonement?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
Grace for what? It was not concerning eternal salvation, but a physical deliverance from their enemies. I guess that could be considered grace.
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Would it be your contention that only after Jesus died and resurrected salvation was offered?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
In the Church age? He would be condemned just like an unbelieving Gentile.
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So the Physical Kingdom will only be for Jewish
John146 said:
Eternal salvation given by grace, yes.
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How was the thief saved? When he asked Jesus to remember him when He entered Kingdom(Jesus hadn’t died yet) was that because of belief in the Kingdom or who he believed Jesus was?
 
J

John146

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Aerials1978 said:
So the Physical Kingdom will only be for Jewish

How was the thief saved? When he asked Jesus to remember him when He entered Kingdom(Jesus hadn’t died yet) was that because of belief in the Kingdom or who he believed Jesus was?
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Simply by asking Jesus to remember him. The thief did not go to heaven when he died, but to paradise, Abraham’s bosom.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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John146 said:
Simply by asking Jesus to remember him. The thief did not go to heaven when he died, but to paradise, Abraham’s bosom.
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Right, but eventually he will be in Heaven. So would it be apperent that Jesus was offering grace prior to the His death and resurrection?
 
J

John146

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Aerials1978 said:
Right, but eventually he will be in Heaven. So would it be apperent that Jesus was offering grace prior to the His death and resurrection?
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I guess, yes. But for the Jew, this grace required works of obedience. For us after the resurrection, grace is given simply by believing the gospel of Christ. The best the Jew could do is end up in Abraham’s bosom. We have something better than they.
 
J

Judges1318

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John146 said:
Did you ever compare Matthew 24:14 with Colossians 1:5-6?
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14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - Matthew 24:14

5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. - Colossians 1:5-6

I highlighted some key phrases. Take it from here.
 
J

Judges1318

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Judges1318 said:
He is still faithful to us even if we are faithless to him.


12if we endure,
we will also reign with Him;
if we deny Him,
He will also deny us;
13if we are faithless,
He remains faithful,
for He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:12-13

What you are ignoring is there has to be a difference between 'being faithless' and 'denying him'.
He will deny you if you deny him. But he will not deny you if you are faithless.
That tells you right there that denying him and being faithless aren't the same thing.

Follow this closely:
How can Paul say 'denying him' means not being able to reign with him, and then turn right around and say Christ can not deny us?
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John146 said:
If we endure what? This endurance of suffering earns the believer’s right to reign with Him. That’s the context of verse 12.

If we believe not, it doesn’t make us not in Christ. Christ cannot deny those who are in Him.
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The question you need to answer is, how can Paul say in vs. 12 that Christ will deny us, but then turn right around and say in vs. 13 that He cannot deny Himself (us, his body)? My interpretation of the passage easily explains that. I don't think you're does. But show me how your interpretation of the passage explains it. I say your doctrine puts vs. 12 and 13 in direct contradiction with each other. Mine doesn't.
 
J

John146

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Judges1318 said:
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - Matthew 24:14

5the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel 6that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace. - Colossians 1:5-6

I highlighted some key phrases. Take it from here.
Click to expand...
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Notice that the gospel Paul preached has already gone out into all the world. That’s the gospel of Jesus Christ. The end has not come. The gospel of the kingdom was only preached to the Jews through Jesus and His disciples.

If it were the same gospel, the end should have come.
 
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