Can people be a Christian and a Karaite Jew simultaneously?

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7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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I asked someone if they believed in repentance when they take their sins to Christ. Here is what you have said about that: I avoid answering questions, I have wandered from the gospel, I have an obstinate refusal to accept grace, my belief system is in error, and you suggest I study Galatians. I wonder, do you think Paul was against asking anyone about repentance?

This!! in response to mentioning repentance.

crackle crackle

hello? I'm having trouble hearing you

hello?

oh well...guess there is a disconnect somewhere
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I have to agree with ya! What it seems that is not being understood? Is the difference from being saved by grace through faith in Christ? And, being "Called", and "Elected", for the Father's sake, and purposes!
The difference being? Saving grace by faith in Christ? Will not keep one safe from the 2nd death! Which is the why, those who are? See the "works" the elect perform for the sake of the Father? As being legalistic, and Judizers. Or a works FOR Salvation! Which isn't the case at all!


Saving grace by the faith of Christ, the faith coming from God as 'it' is writtten. Not after the imaginations of one own fleshly mind. (no faith)

What I can
say concerning those "works", that are seen as "works=Salvation", is that these "works" keep us exempt from the 2nd death!
As to what it takes for the Father to "call" one? I can't say, as everyone is different!
Christ's work of faith through his labor of love is seen as "works=Salvation. He paid the debt of the second death. Creating in us a new spirit and new heart that desires to do His will as spirit in us not of us that will never die.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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It seems to me that God is best described as the "I am". If we only see the spiritual we miss how God is with us in this world. If we only see the physical or earthly parts of the word of God we miss God for God is spirit. If we miss the symbolism God uses to explain things to us we miss some understanding we could have. There are even hidden meanings in God's word that we would need to transcend ourselves to understand.

Works without the spirit of the Lord is dead, and faith without works is dead. It takes complete acceptance of all of God.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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It seems to me that God is best described as the "I am". If we only see the spiritual we miss how God is with us in this world. If we only see the physical or earthly parts of the word of God we miss God for God is spirit. If we miss the symbolism God uses to explain things to us we miss some understanding we could have. There are even hidden meanings in God's word that we would need to transcend ourselves to understand.

Works without the spirit of the Lord is dead, and faith without works is dead. It takes complete acceptance of all of God.
God is not the law.

You can't include the law when you say all of God.

Those who have faith in God do not work at the law. God works in those who have faith in Him to do His Will.

God doesn't work in those who are already working at their own understanding.


Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
 
Saving grace by the faith of Christ, the faith coming from God as 'it' is writtten. Not after the imaginations of one own fleshly mind. (no faith)



Christ's work of faith through his labor of love is seen as "works=Salvation. He paid the debt of the second death. Creating in us a new spirit and new heart that desires to do His will as spirit in us not of us that will never die.
John 3
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be born of water(of woman) and of the Spirit (Spirit of God), he CANNOT ENTER INTO the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Doesn't seem to say anything at all, concerning Christ paying the debt of the second death. Does it?

Enjoy yer "free parking!".........As long as it lasts. :)
 
God is not the law.

You can't include the law when you say all of God.

Those who have faith in God do not work at the law. God works in those who have faith in Him to do His Will.

God doesn't work in those who are already working at their own understanding.


Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
No Grandpa? You must include the law, when considering all of God.
You more then likely yourself obey the law, and don't give it much a 2nd thought when obeying it either.
Say you borrow yer neighbor's circular saw to cut some boards, and while using it the saw blade breaks. Do you give it back to yer neighbor with a broken blade? Or, do you buy a new blade before you give it back to him? Here's the "clincher" that divides the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Do you replace the blade out of a sense of guilt, or obligation? Or, do you replace the blade out of a sense not wanting yer neighbor, to borrow something from you, and give it back to you broken?
That's right! Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Mark 12
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

On the same note, If your neighbor asks you for a cup of sugar. Do you give him a cup of salt?

You'll find much, if not all these laws, and more, in the Torah.

Today? We tend to "pick and choose" which of these "laws" to follow. And, yes? Love "covers" a multitude, of these "trangressings" OF THE LAW. Enter Jesus, who paid the debt of these transgressings of the law!

The problem? Love ONLY? Tends to "turn its blind eye, on trangressions that love DOESN'T cover!
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,708
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John 3
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be born of water(of woman) and of the Spirit (Spirit of God), he CANNOT ENTER INTO the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Doesn't seem to say anything at all, concerning Christ paying the debt of the second death. Does it?

Enjoy yer "free parking!".........As long as it lasts. :)
Not in that context. yer "free parking" has expired Do you have a credit card or get out of second death free card if not you will not pass but its off to lake of fire ? . LOL.

It John 3:5 only informs us how the water of the word must come by the Spirit of the word in order that we can hear what the Spirit is saying to the church .They will not experience the second death.Having already passed from death to eternal life (new spirit)

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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No Grandpa? You must include the law, when considering all of God.
You more then likely yourself obey the law, and don't give it much a 2nd thought when obeying it either.
Say you borrow yer neighbor's circular saw to cut some boards, and while using it the saw blade breaks. Do you give it back to yer neighbor with a broken blade? Or, do you buy a new blade before you give it back to him? Here's the "clincher" that divides the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Do you replace the blade out of a sense of guilt, or obligation? Or, do you replace the blade out of a sense not wanting yer neighbor, to borrow something from you, and give it back to you broken?
That's right! Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Mark 12
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

On the same note, If your neighbor asks you for a cup of sugar. Do you give him a cup of salt?

You'll find much, if not all these laws, and more, in the Torah.

Today? We tend to "pick and choose" which of these "laws" to follow. And, yes? Love "covers" a multitude, of these "trangressings" OF THE LAW. Enter Jesus, who paid the debt of these transgressings of the law!

The problem? Love ONLY? Tends to "turn its blind eye, on trangressions that love DOESN'T cover!
The only thing you as a child of God need to think about the law is

1 you have failed to keep it
2 You are failing to keep it
3. You will fail to keep it.


So stop trying to follow something you can never keep (according to Gods standard) and learn to follow The law of love

As a non believer, you have to realise you have failed to keep it. Because of that you are cursed. And see what The law says about atonment, Which should lead you to the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. (The tutor which leads us to christ.)
 
The only thing you as a child of God need to think about the law is

1 you have failed to keep it
2 You are failing to keep it
3. You will fail to keep it.


So stop trying to follow something you can never keep (according to Gods standard) and learn to follow The law of love

As a non believer, you have to realise you have failed to keep it. Because of that you are cursed. And see what The law says about atonment, Which should lead you to the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. (The tutor which leads us to christ.)

Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, NO FLESH should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

This is what your "law of love" does!
Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the ONLY Lord God, AND our Lord Jesus Christ.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

A "non-believer" I am? :p

10,000 comedians outta work? And yer trying to be one? :p

Non believer....Oh that's rich!
I can't quit laughing, EG! :p
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, NO FLESH should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

This is what your "law of love" does!
Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the ONLY Lord God, AND our Lord Jesus Christ.
12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

A "non-believer" I am? :p

10,000 comedians outta work? And yer trying to be one? :p

Non believer....Oh that's rich!
I can't quit laughing, EG! :p
Lets see

1. Your first passage has nothing to do with law keeping, it is about how severe the great tribulation will be
2. Your second passage again has nothing to do with the law. But about evil men who try to infiltrate our churches and turn people from God
3. Not sure how you think what I said says your a non believer

4. Commedian? I have no idea what your trying to say here.
 
Lets see

1. Your first passage has nothing to do with law keeping, it is about how severe the great tribulation will be
2. Your second passage again has nothing to do with the law. But about evil men who try to infiltrate our churches and turn people from God
3. Not sure how you think what I said says your a non believer

4. Commedian? I have no idea what your trying to say here.
Should have known better then try and argue a man that plays "vanishing pointed" shell games. :p
As an elect? You can't deceive me! You can play games with me. You can "try" and confuse me. You can harass me. You can even try and "pick apart" everything I post.

As an elect. I can be oppressed, mocked, scorned, humiliated, and slandered.
But? I can not be deceived!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Should have known better then try and argue a man that plays "vanishing pointed" shell games. :p
As an elect? You can't deceive me! You can play games with me. You can "try" and confuse me. You can harass me. You can even try and "pick apart" everything I post.

As an elect. I can be oppressed, mocked, scorned, humiliated, and slandered.
But? I can not be deceived!
Again, Not sure what your trying to say

I am not calvinist, so if your trying to mock me as one, Your joke is failing.
 
Again, Not sure what your trying to say

I am not calvinist, so if your trying to mock me as one, Your joke is failing.

Nor am I, EG! Nor am I! :)

What I am saying is the "law of love", in regards to keeping ones' election assured?
Won't cut the mustard!
Then? I went on to point out "problems" obeying the "law of love" ONLY, causes within "churches of stone."
And, it's like I'm talking over yer head!
I can't MAKE you understands it. I can try and persuade you, with logical arguments. But, even that goes "past yer eyes." Like "milk." :p


However? The "law of love" doesn't hurt, AT ALL! Is just that it don't HELP as much as you and others would like to think it does. Without ALL the "fruit of the Spirit", "brought to bare?" The "law of love", CRIPPLES churches of stone, and furthermore? Gives "traditions of man" a "free reign" INSIDE these churches of stone! I don't think I needs explain what traditions of man does to the Word of God, do I?

For what it's worth? As one "matures" in the Spirit? One cannot help recognizing the "tenets" of Calvinism, in passing. ;)
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,280
3,554
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The problem? Love ONLY? Tends to "turn its blind eye, on trangressions that love DOESN'T cover!

where did grandpa even mention love only? I read his post and that is not at all what he said

the reason I am responding here, is because I happen to be currently going through the book of Galatians...again..and that book deals 100% with the debate on law/works or faith only

it is most definitely faith ONLY

salvation is by faith only and chapter 3 calls all those who believe and are made righteous BY FAITH, as was Abraham, the children of Abraham; not meaning they have become Jewish (apart from the fact Abraham was not what we would consider Jewish) but children through righteousness BY FAITH

now this has nothing to do with ANY law, because the law was not given until 430 years later

if people would just recognize that fact alone, they could then understand so much better that works have nothing to do with salvation. if someone never did one single 'work' they would still be saved as long as they understood and accounted their righteousness to Christ and had faith IN Him.

however, if someone starts doing 'works' out of obligation and believing they must do them, then, and it says this as plain as day in Galatians...see chapter 3...then they are no longer saved by faith and have actually put themself under the curse of the law

what is the curse? it is death the moment you break the least of the commandments

it's all there in Galatians.

every

single

thing

I

just

posted.

and understand that the law is actually a system of works. that is also in Galatians

and further, the law never ever saved anyone, was never meant to save anyone and it WORKS

and yes, I know that the Bible also says that faith without works is dead...but folks are confusing that with LAW

someone look up what the works are that Christians, by the Spirit of God, are meant to do. I know what they and they ZERO to do with keeping any aspect of the law
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Nor am I, EG! Nor am I! :)

What I am saying is the "law of love", in regards to keeping ones' election assured?
I never said this or insinuated this

So I hope you can see my delima as to what I have no idea what your trying to do :p
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The law of love states this

1. Love the lord God will all your heart mind and soul
2. Love your neighbor as yourself (your neighbor includes your enemy)

In a nutshell, it means putting others needs above your own needs in all things.

If we do this, as Jesus said, we will fulfill the things in the law

Or as paul put it, Seek after the things of the spirit (law of love) and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (sin)
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
8,280
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I will also add that the so called 'law of love' is also not able to save someone

and why even bring it up? the point is, there is only One who saves and it is through faith in Him that we are saved

if you are saved, you will hear His voice and understand simply He is God's provision for salvation

all your planning about what you are going to do has nothing to do with your salvation

(the above written non-specifically so kindly do not come back and try to argue with me. check out Galatians...I am only repeating what I read.


in the Bible)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I will also add that the so called 'law of love' is also not able to save someone

and why even bring it up? the point is, there is only One who saves and it is through faith in Him that we are saved

if you are saved, you will hear His voice and understand simply He is God's provision for salvation

all your planning about what you are going to do has nothing to do with your salvation

(the above written non-specifically so kindly do not come back and try to argue with me. check out Galatians...I am only repeating what I read.


in the Bible)
Amen

The bible says we love because he first loved us

To a person who has never experienced Gods love in salvation, They have no capacity to obey this law.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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Karaite Jews believe that rabbis were not given the right to add to scripture so they do not believe in the Midrash or Talmud. They do believe all of the OT. It seems to me that Christ and Paul were Karaite Jews.

Do you think these Jews can keep all their Jewishness and also be a Christian?

There is the feeling of origins, and the actual relationship with God.
In Christ we need no temple or sacrifices or ceremonies. We need no external binding of the word to us
or special dress codes, or festivals. So all the markers of being a Jew are just memories of what went before.

To put the jewish interpretations that to please God one had to follow all the stipulations of the Torah,
then Christ has not died for ones sins.

So it comes down to ones meaning of being jewish.
 

Sipsey

Active member
Sep 27, 2018
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We speak, but do not hear.
We hear, but do not see.
We see, but do not know.
We know, because we are known.