Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?
- Thread starter Radius
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
* Jerusalem was destroyed on a Saturday, September 8, 70 A. D. All the remaining portions of the city were destroyed. Only three towers were left standing, Phasel, Hippicus and Miriamme. Titus left them as a reminder of the greatness of the city he had destroyed.
* Roman soldiers dug through the ruins of the city hoping to find buried treasure. Foundations of building were overturned in search of loot.
* It was estimated that 1,100,000 Jews had died from all causes; 97,000 were enslaved. Some 70,000 were taken to Rome to be displayed in Titus’ triumphal parade. Most of them soon perished, being sent into the arenas to fight wild beasts, gladiators, etc. The remaining men were sent to Egypt to work in mines.
* The total death toll of the war exceeded 2,000,000.
* It is remarkable that although there were numerous Christians living in and around Jerusalem, no Christians perished. Taking Jesus’ warning seriously, when they saw the Roman troops moving into position they abandoned Jerusalem and fled to the village of Pella, east of th Jordan River (Matt. 24:15-19).
As Jesus had promised, Not one stone was left standing upon another...all were thrown down (Matt. 24:2). The people who rejected their Messiah and declared that his blood would be on their heads and those of their children reaped just as they had sown (Gal. 6:7). JHW
* Roman soldiers dug through the ruins of the city hoping to find buried treasure. Foundations of building were overturned in search of loot.
* It was estimated that 1,100,000 Jews had died from all causes; 97,000 were enslaved. Some 70,000 were taken to Rome to be displayed in Titus’ triumphal parade. Most of them soon perished, being sent into the arenas to fight wild beasts, gladiators, etc. The remaining men were sent to Egypt to work in mines.
* The total death toll of the war exceeded 2,000,000.
* It is remarkable that although there were numerous Christians living in and around Jerusalem, no Christians perished. Taking Jesus’ warning seriously, when they saw the Roman troops moving into position they abandoned Jerusalem and fled to the village of Pella, east of th Jordan River (Matt. 24:15-19).
As Jesus had promised, Not one stone was left standing upon another...all were thrown down (Matt. 24:2). The people who rejected their Messiah and declared that his blood would be on their heads and those of their children reaped just as they had sown (Gal. 6:7). JHW
P
I think you may be confusing two things. Luke makes it pretty clear that the abomination of desolation that was to be the sign to the Christian Jews to flee Jerusalem was this: "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, the know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which be in Judea flee ..."
So it's clear that the warning to the Christians was that they were to flee when they saw the Roman armies encircling the city.
What I think you are confusing that with is Paul letter to the Thessalonians about the the rise of the Zealots and the revolt they would lead the nation into. He told the Christians that the day of Christ could not come until there was a revolt first, and the man of sin would be revealed, who would exalt himself and so that he would sit in the Temple acting as if he is God.
But I don't think this was referring to Menahem, he did become a leader of the Zealots in the very beginning of the war, and he did dress in the royal robes and paraded up to the temple, but he was killed in the opening months of the revolt.
John of Gischala also decked himself in the royal robes, as did Simon bar Giora. But Simon was the worst of the lot, the most savage and he actually set up his armed camp in the courts of the Temple itself. In fact, he had coins struck to commemorate his "victory" that declared the year "of Jerusalem's Deliverance." Here's a photo of one below. Notice the laurel wreath, the traditional victor's emblem.
But of course the Romans won the war and it's interesting to note that because Simon had taken upon himself the title of "King" and "Deliverer" of Israel he was taken back to Rome for Vespasian's victory parade into Rome. Simon was stripped naked and forced to walk the parade route leading the horse that drew Vespasian's chariot, a means of humiliation for kings and princes that Rome conquered. It was rare for Rome to mint a coin showing a conquered ruler but here's one of Simon bar Gioras:
Afterward the triumphant entry Simon was ceremoniously killed and at the trumpet blast that announced his death a cheer went up from all Rome.
So much for self-made messiahs.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
So it's clear that the warning to the Christians was that they were to flee when they saw the Roman armies encircling the city.
What I think you are confusing that with is Paul letter to the Thessalonians about the the rise of the Zealots and the revolt they would lead the nation into. He told the Christians that the day of Christ could not come until there was a revolt first, and the man of sin would be revealed, who would exalt himself and so that he would sit in the Temple acting as if he is God.
But I don't think this was referring to Menahem, he did become a leader of the Zealots in the very beginning of the war, and he did dress in the royal robes and paraded up to the temple, but he was killed in the opening months of the revolt.
John of Gischala also decked himself in the royal robes, as did Simon bar Giora. But Simon was the worst of the lot, the most savage and he actually set up his armed camp in the courts of the Temple itself. In fact, he had coins struck to commemorate his "victory" that declared the year "of Jerusalem's Deliverance." Here's a photo of one below. Notice the laurel wreath, the traditional victor's emblem.
But of course the Romans won the war and it's interesting to note that because Simon had taken upon himself the title of "King" and "Deliverer" of Israel he was taken back to Rome for Vespasian's victory parade into Rome. Simon was stripped naked and forced to walk the parade route leading the horse that drew Vespasian's chariot, a means of humiliation for kings and princes that Rome conquered. It was rare for Rome to mint a coin showing a conquered ruler but here's one of Simon bar Gioras:
Afterward the triumphant entry Simon was ceremoniously killed and at the trumpet blast that announced his death a cheer went up from all Rome.
So much for self-made messiahs.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Last edited:
1
The desolation of Jerusalem isn't the same thing as the Holy Place being desolated by the abomination.
If you think about it, the Matthew and Luke account go hand in hand.
Jews revolt, Manahem enters temple. Temple is desolated.
Christians see that as a sign to flee.
In response to the revolt, and Manahem, Rome sends troops into the land.
Christians see that too, and know it's time to leave.
Romans eventually make the land and city desolate.
Ie dead and the like.
They both go hand in hand and work together.
If you think about it, the Matthew and Luke account go hand in hand.
Jews revolt, Manahem enters temple. Temple is desolated.
Christians see that as a sign to flee.
In response to the revolt, and Manahem, Rome sends troops into the land.
Christians see that too, and know it's time to leave.
Romans eventually make the land and city desolate.
Ie dead and the like.
They both go hand in hand and work together.
E
The problem is if we go off the daniel account. We have the city and temple left desolate. whos end will come with a flood. and will be this way until war desolations are determined.
THEN
we see the one week agreement, which in the middle of that week, we THEN see the abomination which makes desolate.
In matt 24.. we see that AFTER this there will be a 3 1/2 year tribulation such as the world has never seen, which will end with the return of Christ, who puts a stop to the war because if he did not. no flesh would survive.
wee saw none of these things take place at or near 70 AD. so I can;t for the life of me see how poeple try to force 70 AD to be the fulfillment of these things.
THEN
we see the one week agreement, which in the middle of that week, we THEN see the abomination which makes desolate.
In matt 24.. we see that AFTER this there will be a 3 1/2 year tribulation such as the world has never seen, which will end with the return of Christ, who puts a stop to the war because if he did not. no flesh would survive.
wee saw none of these things take place at or near 70 AD. so I can;t for the life of me see how poeple try to force 70 AD to be the fulfillment of these things.
E
actually there were many covenants
The abrahamic
The davidic
The mosaic
the new
just to name a few
The new replaces the mosaic
The mosaic never saved anyone
The abrahamic was two fold. One spoke of the redeemer. One spoke of how God would deal with abrahams descendants.
The only one which ever saved, was the new.. and of course. it was in effect literally in Gen 3: 15. the first promise. and fulfilled with Christ.
The abrahamic
The davidic
The mosaic
the new
just to name a few
The new replaces the mosaic
The mosaic never saved anyone
The abrahamic was two fold. One spoke of the redeemer. One spoke of how God would deal with abrahams descendants.
The only one which ever saved, was the new.. and of course. it was in effect literally in Gen 3: 15. the first promise. and fulfilled with Christ.