Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[rogerg]

You make a good point in context to a conclusion with scripture harmoning. Yet Mans is limited in their ability.
The Holy Spirit leads us and guides us into all truth and brings everything Jesus has said into our remembrance.

In formulating a reply to the points your raised, it occurred to me while doing so, that rather than going through each one
of them individually to provide my perspective, it might just be better and more effective to first discuss the Bible's most fundamental doctrine which is Christ as Saviour. From that, we can each be better able to understand the other's point of view, upon which, has everything else respectively been built upon and be in a better position to discuss the points you've raised. If our most fundamental understanding is radically different than, or opposed to, each other's, then it may just be that there is no foundation available to support a discussion of the more abstract doctrine.
Therefore, I will begin with my belief which is an extremely simple one - that Jesus Christ, being the (one and only) Saviour of whom we have clearly been informed of in the Bible, in order to truly be that Saviour, there can be nothing that pertains to salvation which is apart from, nor outside of, Christ, and which He has not already provided to/for us- all being through and by Him - which were brought to fruition by Him and given fully and completely as a free gift with no preconditions associated to the receiving of it other than He has chosen some for it - with everything else flowing out from that; therefore, those saved are solely beneficiaries and in no way can/do they contribute to it. Said another way, the cost of salvation is so great and so vast - far beyond man's ability to acquire it in any sense- such that it can only be received as a gift directly from God Himself to us individually through His mercy and grace alone, which thereby attests to us its exceedingly great value.

So, with that, I'd be interested to hear your understanding of what it is that makes Jesus as Saviour, the Saviour.

 

[Charlie_2024]

We Christians have a Shepherd. His name is Jesus Christ and He is the King of kings and Lord of lords.

OK, I don't know who the we "Christians" are who have Jesu Christ as their Shepherd. I didn't know that the second coming had already taken place. Please give me the address of where you guys hang out with Jesus, I wouldn't mind hanging out with him as well.

Don't let me down and tell me it was all a dream and He hasn't returned yet. I wish you would quit with this imaginary friend business, it's a bit childish

 

[Charlie_2024]

btw, Paul was not the "12th" Apostle (Matthias was--Acts 1:26)





[yet Paul wrote 1Cor2:16b ("we have the mind of Christ"), as well as many other NT epistles ... and was an Apostle]

1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

I never mentioned Paul. There were only 12 Apostles, it sounds like you forget Judas, he was an apostle because he was given the gift to perform miracles. Nobody else was given those gifts after the 12 others may have been gifted faith but not to perform miracles so they don't qualify

 

[selahsays]

OK, I don't know who the we "Christians" are who have Jesu Christ as their Shepherd. I didn't know that the second coming had already taken place. Please give me the address of where you guys hang out with Jesus, I wouldn't mind hanging out with him as well.

Don't let me down and tell me it was all a dream and He hasn't returned yet. I wish you would quit with this imaginary friend business, it's a bit childish

You need help, Charlie. Bye.

 

[CS1]

Well you Armenians believe that God is bipolar and He does change His mind and break His promises. You'd be surprised to learn that the vast majority of Christians actually believe these terrible untrue things

No, I am not Armenian, Nor do I believe the Living God is such a thing as you say. You are a foolish person and speak as if yu know what people hold to. "ism" is the issue. Now, please stop name-calling and act like an adult. You do no good for the cause of Calvin and the position you claim to know so well.

I told you, The Lord Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I place my trust in Him. You are not an authority of my faith, nor do you affirm it.

 

[Charlie_2024]

In formulating a reply to the points your raised, it occurred to me while doing so, that rather than going through each one
of them individually to provide my perspective, it might just be better and more effective to first discuss the Bible's most fundamental doctrine which is Christ as Saviour. From that, we can each be better able to understand the other's point of view, upon which, has everything else respectively been built upon and be in a better position to discuss the points you've raised. If our most fundamental understanding is radically different than, or opposed to, each other's, then it may just be that there is no foundation available to support a discussion of the more abstract doctrine.
Therefore, I will begin with my belief which is an extremely simple one - that Jesus Christ, being the (one and only) Saviour of whom we have clearly been informed of in the Bible, in order to truly be that Saviour, there can be nothing that pertains to salvation which is apart from, nor outside of, Christ, and which He has not already provided to/for us- all being through and by Him - which were brought to fruition by Him and given fully and completely as a free gift with no preconditions associated to the receiving of it other than He has chosen some for it - with everything else flowing out from that; therefore, those saved are solely beneficiaries and in no way can/do they contribute to it. Said another way, the cost of salvation is so great and so vast - far beyond man's ability to acquire it in any sense- such that it can only be received as a gift directly from God Himself to us individually through His mercy and grace alone, which thereby attests to us its exceedingly great value.

So, with that, I'd be interested to hear your understanding of what it is that makes Jesus as Saviour, the Saviour.

The thing that makes Jesus as Savior the Savior is that He is the Almighty Jehovah God, nobody else can save sinners apart from Him. I'm not sure if I understand your question, as it seem obvious and self explanatory.

Everything you've stated is biblically sound, I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[CS1]

That's your private interpretation, it doesn't line up with the Bible, so with all due respect I have no choice other than to reject all of that as unbiblical.

Everyone claims to be a Christian, from the Hitlers of this world to child raping murderers. a Christian is not one who says he's a Christian but he is the one who does the will of God. Words are cheap, everyone uses them to push their private religious views. I look for fruits/evidence to support a profession of faith.

Your fruits are bitter, they are nothing like those the Lord said His followers would bare so I can't accept any of your claims

You are a sick person. I hope you are not trying to suggest I am anything like Hilter because I claim to be a Christian?
You should be very careful about what you are saying to people here.

Disagreeing with you is not a sin, nor does it mean one is not Christian. I do see you not being here very long as you are becoming more graphic in your depiction of those who do not hold to your Calvinism.

 

[Charlie_2024]

No, I am not Armenian, Nor do I believe the Living God is such a thing as you say. You are a foolish person and speak as if yu know what people hold to. "ism" is the issue. Now, please stop name-calling and act like an adult. You do no good for the cause of Calvin and the position you claim to know so well.

I told you, The Lord Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. I place my trust in Him. You are not an authority of my faith, nor do you affirm it.

Well, it's obvious we are of different faiths. But then again there are so many militantly opposed Christians, who despise each others theologies. That's why the Church is not united but it's has disintegrated into thousands of seeker friendly organizations calling themselves Churches.

A Christian can be anyone from Hitler to a child murderer, to some nice guy helping an old lady cross the street. I mean what is a Christian anyway, does anybody know or is it each to his own private opinion. That's why I identify as an Elect Saint of God, I don't want to be a part of that basket case religious thing.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You are a sick person. I hope you are not trying to suggest I am anything like Hilter because I claim to be a Christian?
You should be very careful about what you are saying to people here.

Disagreeing with you is not a sin, nor does it mean one is not Christian. I do see you not being here very long as you are becoming more graphic in your depiction of those who do not hold to your Calvinism.

You're welcome to yo have your personal opinion, everyone has one. Not sure why you have a problem with the fact that so many claim to be Christians but they don't bare any Christian fruits. I haven't sensed any humility in your posts, and humility is a big ticket item

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You're welcome to yo have your personal opinion, everyone has one. Not sure why you have a problem with the fact that so many claim to be Christians but they don't bare any Christian fruits. I haven't sensed any humility in your posts, and humility is a big ticket item

i have a couple of questions for you

Why call depravity total depravity, why not just say depraved.

Or why call atonement limited atonement why not just call it atonement.

Then why is it the elect think there saved above everyone else when they to must endure until the end.

 

[rogerg]

The thing that makes Jesus as Savior the Savior is that He is the Almighty Jehovah God, nobody else can save sinners apart from Him. I'm not sure if I understand your question, as it seem obvious and self explanatory.

Everything you've stated is biblically sound, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Thanks Charlie_2024, but that post was actually directed to CS1 I believe, not you, but thanks for your reply.
I was actually asking (and I may not have been clear in it) what does a Saviour have to do to save and what, if anything,
do those to be saved have to do for it? I say nothing, and that it is entirely a gift from God.

 

[CS1]

In formulating a reply to the points your raised, it occurred to me while doing so, that rather than going through each one
of them individually to provide my perspective, it might just be better and more effective to first discuss the Bible's most fundamental doctrine which is Christ as Saviour. From that, we can each be better able to understand the other's point of view, upon which, has everything else respectively been built upon and be in a better position to discuss the points you've raised. If our most fundamental understanding is radically different than, or opposed to, each other's, then it may just be that there is no foundation available to support a discussion of the more abstract doctrine.
Therefore, I will begin with my belief which is an extremely simple one - that Jesus Christ, being the (one and only) Saviour of whom we have clearly been informed of in the Bible, in order to truly be that Saviour, there can be nothing that pertains to salvation which is apart from, nor outside of, Christ, and which He has not already provided to/for us- all being through and by Him - which were brought to fruition by Him and given fully and completely as a free gift with no preconditions associated to the receiving of it other than He has chosen some for it - with everything else flowing out from that; therefore, those saved are solely beneficiaries and in no way can/do they contribute to it. Said another way, the cost of salvation is so great and so vast - far beyond man's ability to acquire it in any sense- such that it can only be received as a gift directly from God Himself to us individually through His mercy and grace alone, which thereby attests to us its exceedingly great value.

So, with that, I'd be interested to hear your understanding of what it is that makes Jesus as Saviour, the Saviour.

I agree 100% with your post.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Only salvation because he is without sin. Therefore, a Holy God who can not look on sin provides salvation for sin, through Himself in the Person of Christ. That price was paid for all when Jesus said

"It is Finished." John 19:30. The Debt was paid in full: all past, Present, and Future debt. As people come into existence each day, they are Born in Sin and shaped into iniquity. Yet the Blood of Jesus is not without effect for all.
Due to the current state of all without Christ, God has in His Sovereignty made away through Christ at the preaching OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, WHICH IS THE power OF God FOR SALVATION. to all whom the Holy Spirit shall convict of sin. Therefore, it is The Lord Himself who has given US the Ministry of reconciliation 2 Corinthians 5:11-21

We can see those who are lost in sin be saved by the Foolishness of Preaching the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Predestination and election are God's things. Obedience, preaching, and testifying of the Lord Jesus Christ is what we are to do to see people saved. As God told us to do.

 

[CS1]

Well, it's obvious we are of different faiths. But then again there are so many militantly opposed Christians, who despise each others theologies. That's why the Church is not united but it's has disintegrated into thousands of seeker friendly organizations calling themselves Churches.

A Christian can be anyone from Hitler to a child murderer, to some nice guy helping an old lady cross the street. I mean what is a Christian anyway, does anybody know or is it each to his own private opinion. That's why I identify as an Elect Saint of God, I don't want to be a part of that basket case religious thing.

Christian means follower of Christ or Christ-like. Hilter is far from that by his actions. That should be easy to decern. I told you Jesus is Lord of my Life, and I was saved by Grace through faith. I identify with Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is not a "basket case. " He is the only way of Salvation. Do you deny that?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Well, it's obvious we are of different faiths. But then again there are so many militantly opposed Christians, who despise each others theologies. That's why the Church is not united but it's has disintegrated into thousands of seeker friendly organizations calling themselves Churches.

A Christian can be anyone from Hitler to a child murderer, to some nice guy helping an old lady cross the street. I mean what is a Christian anyway, does anybody know or is it each to his own private opinion. That's why I identify as an Elect Saint of God, I don't want to be a part of that basket case religious thing.

here's another question Charlie


Timothy 2:3-10

New International Version



3 Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer. 5 Similarly, anyone who competes as an athlete does not receive the victor’s crown except by competing according to the rules. 6 The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. 7 Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.
8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.



See here Charlie its saying that even the elect must compete by the rules to obtain salvation

but your saying the elect have already obtained salvation.

notice Charlie it says that they to may obtain salvation.

notice it doesn't say the elect have obtained salvation already .

 

[CS1]

You're welcome to yo have your personal opinion, everyone has one. Not sure why you have a problem with the fact that so many claim to be Christians but they don't bare any Christian fruits. I haven't sensed any humility in your posts, and humility is a big ticket item

Look in the mirror, guy. We have turned the other cheek many times, yet as an adult, you have not displaced much fruit yourself.

You're welcome to yo have your personal opinion, everyone has one. Not sure why you have a problem with the fact that so many claim to be Christians but they don't bare any Christian fruits. I haven't sensed any humility in your posts, and humility is a big ticket item

Look in the mirror, guy. You have not displayed much fruit yourself. LOL, humility? You just can't handle receiving what you have sown to so many here. As I told you before, You do not affirm my faith in the Lord or anyone here. You are just mad that people disagree with you. Then you call them hilter and make sexual abuse claims to like them, too. Again, I identify with Christ, who saved me. If you do not, that is between you and Him.

 

[PaulThomson]

We are not Apostles, so that doesn't apply to anyone other than the Apostles. They were given gifts of the Spirit which nobody else was every given after them.

Name me a single person, who had the power to heal people and cast out demons and all kinds of other gifts that were only given to the 12 Apostles. Answer, you can't because they don't exist

Smith Wigglesworth. But he was married.

 

[PaulThomson]

The problem with Spirits is they can't talk, they don't have a mouth. So I can't ask them to lead my bible study group, so I have no other choice, other than to allow my Shepherd to interpret the Bible for me.

I take it your a sheep, from the sounds of it, so you need to find a Shepherd to lead and teach you what the Bible says so you don't get lost in confusion. The Shepherd must be an ordained Minister, I'm not talking about self appointed charlatans.

Gos is Spirit. Can he who made the mouth not speak? Did the spirit that scripture reports as suggesting to God that it would become a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets to deceive the king into going to war, not really speak? You seem to react to posts without thinking through your responses and considering whether they conflict with other scriptures.

 

[maxamir]

Those who say they are Christians and have faith in their faith in Christ rather than faith in the person and work of Christ do not yet know the LORD (Sovereign Ruler) JESUS (God Who Saves) CHRIST (Anointed Prophet, Priest and King of His People) who came to secure salvation for His people who were chosen by the Father before the foundations of the world and sealed by the Holy Spirit to be granted the repentance and faith that is justly commanded of for all people.

Those who refuse to proclaim the whole counsel of God which includes God's sovereign election, preach a false Christ and pervert the Gospel.

You have been lovingly warned and your blood is not upon me.

Act 20:26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

 

[CS1]

Those who say they are Christians and have faith in their faith in Christ rather than faith in the person and work of Christ do not yet know the LORD (Sovereign Ruler) JESUS (God Who Saves) CHRIST (Anointed Prophet, Priest and King of His People) who came to secure salvation for His people who were chosen by the Father before the foundations of the world and sealed by the Holy Spirit to be granted the repentance and faith that is justly commanded of for all people.

Those who refuse to proclaim the whole counsel of God which includes God's sovereign election, preach a false Christ and pervert the Gospel.

You have been lovingly warned and your blood is not upon me.

Act 20:26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

View attachment 262491

Love how one can assume what others mean when they say, " I have placed my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and not understand it to mean faith in the person and work of Christ.

They are a bunch of fear-mongering Hypocrites. Control freaks. Try to justify judging others with statements from dead preachers who have said the very same thing in other memes.

The Lord Jesus Christ recorded in the gospel of John chapter 3:16-28

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


I will take the words of the Lord Jesus Christ over C. Surgeon and a MEME.

 

[maxamir]

Love how one can assume what others mean when they say, " I have placed my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and not understand it to mean faith in the person and work of Christ.

They are a bunch of fear-mongering Hypocrites. Control freaks. Try to justify judging others with statements from dead preachers who have said the very same thing in other memes.

The Lord Jesus Christ recorded in the gospel of John chapter 3:16-28

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


I will take the words of the Lord Jesus Christ over C. Surgeon and a MEME.

Belief in which Christ?

The demons believed in Christ and they trembled but are not saved. The JW's, Mormons and Muslims believe in Christ but their Christ is not the Lord Jesus Christ of Holy Scripture and unless God grants a person grace to believe in this Christ they are not yet saved.

Did Christ come to make salvation possible or did He come to secure salvation for His people?