Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Pilgrimshope]

But it doesn't mean God did not make it so we could not.

We all have the same ancestor, Adam. And if we look at Adam' and God any human will know God is real.
That is what those verses mean.

We’re born of the new testement we aren’t those who aren’t able we’re born of God not Adam

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

There is a difference between the breath of God and the life of Christ in a believer. It's the difference between being physically alive and spiritually alive. It's the difference between...I live...and...I live,yet not I, but Christ lives in me.

The Heavenly spiritual life Jesus , lives in all men.

And all men are not spiritualy dead to God.

All men are under the sentence of death. In his life that is all men untill they become good soil

 

[Charlie_2024]

This nothing more than your understanding



James 4:8

New International Version



8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.


Everyone Gets given a seed,



18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

What's the point in God giving a seed to a stony heart. Do you think that God is so out of touch with reality, that He doesn't know that the seed won't bare fruit.
The seed is the gospel, yes the non elect may pretend they believe it but it soon becomes evident that their profession of faith was false because they bore no fruit.

You will eventually have to let go of this unbiblical notion that we're all given a seed and it's up to us to make it grow into a fruitful plant. The bible says, some plant the seed, some water it but God must give the increase or it's doomed.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You missed the entire point about Gods hatred of some people. You appealed to an unrelated text and failed to address the problem. The dispute was about the meaning of the word "Hated" in the context of Roman 9:13 "God hated Esau".

Failing to deal with the problem and plucking verses out of their intended context and twisting their meaning to make them say something other than what God said, is sinful. Why didn't you address the disputed verse itself, instead of citing unrelated scriptures.

The Bible says that God hates some people. Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau before Esau was even born, because Esau had inherited Adam's hatred of God, and God was not pleased to elect Esau to salvation.
Psalm 5:5 says, "The arrogant cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all who do wrong." Notice that is it not some abstract "sin" or "wickedness" that God hates in this verse; it is people whom He hates.

You tried to say the word "hate' is only used in one context in the Bible, but there are more than one. So we need to face the truth even if we don't like it.

In Luke 14:26 we find Jesus saying that we must hate the members of our own families if we want to follow Him.
While in the parallel passage in Matthew 10:37, Jesus says we must love them less than we love Him.

That kind of "soft" explanation, however, won't work in the verse regarding Esau. God did not love Esau less than Jacob; He did not love Esau in any saving way at all.

You don't like being proven wrong do you?

The context of Hebrews 9 is the same

God loved Esau less than he did Jacob. Because he had something special in plan for Jacob.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It all depends on which gospel version you're talking about. There are countless different, conflicting interpretations. Saying the gospel is all about Jesus says nothing at all. Which Jesus are you talking about, every religious denomination has their own different Jesus.

The problem is every denomination does what you do, they all claim that the gospel is all about Jesus but they all believe in different Jesus's.

You haven't offered any alternative interpretation or solution to the bitter division in the Church over the 500 year old war.

Please enlighten us and share your secret third option, you will become the most famous person in all of history if you do. Now please let us know which of the two gospel views you side with.

View attachment 262951

Non of the above are correct.

No more than the catholic Doctrine is correct.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Everyone knows God exists because God lives in everyone

Not true at all. The Bible says that Gods Holy Spirit, only lives in His children. The children of the Devil have His spirt living in them

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

the Gospel is not an offer with its success dependent upon the decisions of men but it is a proclamation that He is the Author and Finisher of the faith of His people and not themselves.

Thank you for confirming how judicially blinded you are to such simple truth. What sin is in your life that has caused God to hide this truth from you?

Yawn.

The gospel is called Good news.

There is nothing good about something being forced on you

But hey, Keep following men.. See where it will get you

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

There is a difference between the breath of God and the life of Christ in a believer. It's the difference between being physically alive and spiritually alive. It's the difference between...I live...and...I live,yet not I, but Christ lives in me.

God put his spiritual life into Adam the earthly man with his breath.

Genesis 1.27-28. Jesus created Adam in heaven with his life.

Genesis 2.7 Jesus transported Adam in spirit from heaven to earth and.put him in heavenly earthly body with his breath.

Heavenly earthly body vessel for the spirit.

Heaven is in earth to.

Gods will

may my will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Scripture is always correct. Our understanding sometimes isn't. So to my question, are we saved by grace, but must maintain our salvation?

I really am not playing cat and mouse here. The verses are your answer. I'm not the author. My answer is still going to be the verses, What to they say?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

God perfectly loves those He saves who are those He has chosen according to the good pleasure of His will to the praise of the glory of His grace (Eph 1:4-6) but those He hates are never humbled to be shown this simple truth.

Joh 13:1 Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His hour had come that He should depart from this world to the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.

God loved THE WORLD.

Keep thinking you are special.. One day you will find out how much of a lie you feel for

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Not true at all. The Bible says that Gods Holy Spirit, only lives in His children. The children of the Devil have His spirt living in them

Genesis 1:27-8. heavenly life of all men created in one man Adam

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Christ came so that His people may be risen with Him from their spiritual death and granted a new heart and Spirit so that they can obey His just command to repent and believe and then be justified.

They are called to Him through the Gospel.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Only those who are born again can see the kingdom of God in order to see it and choose it.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

In order to be born again YOU MUST HAVE THE PENALTY OF SIN REMOVED

You can not be born again IN SIN.

 

[Cameron143]

“I would suggest you find a Shepherd to lead you and teach you, because it's obvious you're only a sheep and not a Teacher or Minister.”







“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭29:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Awee the action and reaction involved ? I need to ask or I’m not going to receive , I need to seek with all my heart or I won’t find I need to knock or the door won’t be opened for me

rather than “ if you seek or don’t seek you’ll find , if you don’t know I the door will be opened if you don’t ask you’ll still receive “

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to hear this stuff because it will teach us to seek the lord your looking at what it was before the lord came looking at why he came rather than after he came

We’re in the New Testament now born as gods children filled with his spirit not who we were partakers of this now

This is for us now brother it’s marching orders , a battle plan our new charter and identity is this

“grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, according as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

( v your saved you can’t do anything there’s nothing for you to do )

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

for so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭1:2-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If ye do these things you’ll never fall and enter into the kingdom v if we live this way

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What we do has so much impact after we come to Christ we have to embrace the new and let the old go this is not about Christian’s it’s about before Christ had come to save us this is why Jesus had to come and teach the truth to mankind

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus became the son of man and did good now we can be converted to him through the gospel

Nothing wrong with what you have written. But it's meaningless to the natural man. God's word, for that matter, or anything spiritual is of no interest to him.
It is not that God hasn't laid out a welcome mat or sent invitations; rather, man simply lacks understanding of his ill estate and lacks the desire to change it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If you believe salvation is dependent upon your will and choice of God then you are an Arminian whose faith is not in the grace of God but in themselves and therefore remain cursed as confirmed below.

You need to stop listing to men my friend.

A catholic is not arminian.. They were around LONG before the calvin arminian debate got started.

You are so in deep you are unable to think clearly.

I believe in the garce of God. I did nto save myself because I chose to recieve salvation. because I did nothign to earn it.

Jer 17:5 Thus says the LORD: "Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the LORD.

I pray the Lord will humble you to see this.

God humbled me 40 years ago Will he humble you?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This "proves" God did not make some people for Salvation and some for Eternal Damnation because God made a way they could find Him

The fact that someone could red x this means they know absolutely nothing about Scripture.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

you admit the verse says that grace which grants faith is a gift and I have shown you many other verses such as the one below which confirms this. Do you believe the Scriptures are contradictory?

Heb 12:2a looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,

He is thr author and finisher of my faith

But I was SAVED BY GRACE, it (salvation) is the gift of God..

 

[Cameron143]

The Heavenly spiritual life Jesus , lives in all men.

And all men are not spiritualy dead to God.

All men are under the sentence of death. In his life that is all men untill they become good soil

The life of Christ is not in all men. It's barely evident in saved individuals in my experience.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You don't like being proven wrong do you?

The context of Hebrews 9 is the same

God loved Esau less than he did Jacob. Because he had something special in plan for Jacob.

Let me guess. the context is the same because you say so. Well I hate to disappoint you, but nobody gave you the authority to dictate the meaning of Gods Word. You can't apply your unqualified narrative to the context of the word.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Please don't leave me lost in confusion. Please let me know in what way I've been led astray. I really don't want to be led down the wrong path, so please let me know which part of what I believe is false doctrine. You keep telling me I'm wrong but you have never identified a single fault in my theology.

This leaves me no choice, other than to hold you to account or treat you as a false accuse. You really don't want to follow the example of the accuser of the brethren in the bible. His coming punishment is unimaginably horrible.

lol,

Your pride is deep man.

Like I said, you could not sell me anything.

Your God is a God of hate, You said it yourself. God hated a fetus and sent him to hell

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But you never defend your view with any scripture. You always respond to the charges, by your emotions. I'm afraid emotional responses never resolve anything. You may get temporary relief by letting off steam but that doesn't achieve anything other than provide temporary relief from a chronic condition.

Yawn.