Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

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bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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#61
Disagree...The Trinity is like a "Mirage" in a hot desert...You think you see a Pool of Water, and when you get to where you see it..it is not really there....The Truth is this: "The Titles" Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" are 3 offices or administrations of Almighty God
His name is Jesus Christ, AKA, "The Lord", "I AM" "YESHUA" etc, etc, etc....Jesus stated: "All power in heaven and earth is given unto me"
If you see this as The Son telling us HE HAS ALL THE POWER, Tells us if there really 3 persons in the Godhead, 2 of them have no power, sonce Jesus said he had all the power.
Nonsense. I proved in my opening post that there are three and only three persons identified as God in the Bible. When you say the following: ""The Titles" Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" are 3 offices or administrations of Almighty God." your advocating "Modalism." God the Father is the real Father of His Son. Unless you can give me an example of the universal law that a son shares the same nature as its father you don't have a leg to stand on.

Why do you think in the Bible Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of God" and as the "Son of Man?" There's a reason, can you tell me why? Besides, if as you say they are only offices, administrations or even modes (like oneness pentecostals believe) you have the problem that modes do not interact with each other, by definition persons interact with each other. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#62
Disagree...The Trinity is like a "Mirage" in a hot desert...You think you see a Pool of Water, and when you get to where you see it..it is not really there....The Truth is this: "The Titles" Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" are 3 offices or administrations of Almighty God
Then how can the Father speak with the Son? And give gifts to Him?

His name is Jesus Christ, AKA, "The Lord", "I AM" "YESHUA" etc, etc, etc....
The Father and the Son are differentiated by Jesus.. You are simply a modalist.,

Jesus stated: "All power in heaven and earth is given unto me"
If you see this as The Son telling us HE HAS ALL THE POWER, Tells us if there really 3 persons in the Godhead, 2 of them have no power, sonce Jesus said he had all the power.
what a sad argument, He had all power because all power had been given to Him. This does not mean the giver lost the power intrinsically,
 
Aug 19, 2016
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#63
A balky PC is preventing me from continuing participation at the present time. When the problems can be overcome, I will be back.


Quasar92
 
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RBA238

Guest
#64
Calling God plural is literally calling Him a liar! Review Isa.45:5 and many other passages that clearly reveal He was the one and only God until He produced Jesus by the virgin Mary in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35! When Jesus became the Son of God/God the Son.

The pre-incarnate person who became the incarnate Jesus is recorded in Jn.17:3, 5 and the FIRSTBORN over all creation, in Col.1:15, as well as in Heb.1:1-2. The pre-incarnate Jesus is the :us: referred to in Genesis. His origin is recorded in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92
Correction: nowhere in The NT does it describe
Jesus as "God The Son" the Bible Always describes Jesus as "The Son of God". This is the only Jesus is described
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#65
Correction: nowhere in The NT does it describe
Jesus as "God The Son" the Bible Always describes Jesus as "The Son of God". This is the only Jesus is described

But He is called 'the Son' in apposition to 'the Father'.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#66
The word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible, but the concept that there is one God in three distinct persons does.

Jesus was fully man and fully God. Speaking from His humanity, it may appear that Jesus was saying that only His Father is God, when He said, "My Father is greater than I," (John 14:28) but let's not forget the multiple verses that clearly show that Jesus IS God in essence/nature, yet God the Father and God the Son are distinct in person.

Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” Look at the Jews reaction in John 10:33 - The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). JESUS IS GOD.

John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58, and 13:19.

The Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus "..is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And he is before all things, and by Him all things consist." (Colossians 1:15-17)

Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

John 1:1 clearly says - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”. This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Colossians 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 - (Amplified) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. JESUS IS GOD.
 
R

RBA238

Guest
#67
But He is called 'the Son' in apposition to 'the Father'.
"THE FATHER" Is The Everlasting One God/ One Spirit. The Creator; who never had a beginning
Nor will he ever end ( Hebrews 7 V 3). "The SON" is the same One God/ One Lord in a Physical body. Since we cannot see God in Spirit, he made himself a Fleshly Body to be seen by mankind. The Godhead is made up of Spirit and a Fleshly body..The Father/ The Holy Ghost is the One and Only Spirit (together). And The "Son" is the visible manifestation of the Unseen Eternal God...It is not "Daddy AND Junior" Both Spirit and Flesh are ONE not One of TWO..
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#68
Correction: nowhere in The NT does it describe
Jesus as "God The Son" the Bible Always describes Jesus as "The Son of God". This is the only Jesus is described
Jesus is the Word and He is God!
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#69
if it was so easily proven then people would not be debating it all these years later. from what i have seen the best way to prove the doctrine is to mock, ridicule and attack anyone that questions this law of man. or better yet just silence them.
 
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RBA238

Guest
#70
Jesus is the Word and He is God!
You missed my point..I stated that the Bible never once addresses as "God The Son" only "The Son of God". Look at the difference: "God The Son" can mean that The Son is a second Person in a Trinity by tbe descriptiom..
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#71
"THE FATHER" Is The Everlasting One God/ One Spirit. The Creator; who never had a beginning
Nor will he ever end ( Hebrews 7 V 3).
YOUR definition, NOT the Bible's


"The SON" is the same One God/ One Lord in a Physical body.
This is shown to be false in that the Son spoke to the Father as the One Who with Whom He would share eternal glory as He had in the past (John 17.5). Jesus constantly made clear the distinction between the Father and Himself as the Son. e,g, My Father works hitherto and I work.


Since we cannot see God in Spirit, he made himself a Fleshly Body to be seen by mankind. The Godhead is made up of Spirit and a Fleshly body..The Father/ The Holy Ghost is the One and Only Spirit (together). And The "Son" is the visible manifestation of the Unseen Eternal God...It is not "Daddy AND Junior" Both Spirit and Flesh are ONE not One of TWO..
LOL you are just combining into one all the differences that Scripture reveals.

The flesh is only borne by Jesus, the Father is NOT flesh.

By the way it is Father and Son in equality, not as senior and junior. They ae earthly terms which convey to us something of the truth of the Godhead. But they do not apply ACTUALLY.
 
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Aug 19, 2016
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#72
Correction: nowhere in The NT does it describe
Jesus as "God The Son" the Bible Always describes Jesus as "The Son of God". This is the only Jesus is described


Nowhere in the Bible does it describe God as a Trinity. Is Jesus God or not.


Quasar92
 
Aug 19, 2016
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#73
More Scriptural evidence for those of you who struggle, trying to rationalize away what it says and means: YHWH, God, the Holy Spirit and Father of Y'Shua, Jesus made the statement in a number of places in the OT, that He was the only God, and that there were no others, as recorded in the following:

Deut.4:35; 32:39; Isa.44:6 and in Isa.45:5., and many others that say the same. Your claim Jesus is co-eternal and co-equal to YHWH breaks the Scriptures refuting it. There are a number ot theophanies of the pre-incarnate Jesus in the OT. Such as in Gen. 18 and 32; Ex.33:22; Jos.5:13-15; Dan.3:24-25 and 12:7. See also Jn.14:28 and 17:3

Identifying the Biblical term Father as His title. Like all men are when they produce children:

A revelation of how easy it is for the Scriptures to identify God as being the Holy Spirit and Father of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible, documented below.

1. 2 Sam.7:14: "I will be his Father and he will be my son"
2. 1 Chr.17:13: "I will be his Father and he will be my son..."
3. Ps.2:7: "He said to me, 'You are my Son; today I have become your Father."
4. Acts 13:33: "You are my Son; today I have become your Father."

1. it is necessary to properly identify God, whom both Jesus, Paul and John have done, in Jn.1:18, 4:24; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18, Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12, when they identify Him as Spirit.

2. God, who is the Spirit, makes it clear that He is also Holy, in Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5; 1 Pet.1:15-16 and in Rev.4:8. Therefore there is no option to the fact that God is the HOLY SPIRIT and FATHER as recorded in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35. Which refutes the doctrine of the Trinity, together with exposing Mt.28:19 as an alteration and 1 Jn.5:7 as an additive.

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." Jn.14:28 NIV.

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Jn.17:3 NIV.

.According to the Scriptures you reject, Jesus was the FIRSTBORN over all creation, according to Col.1:15, confirming Pr.8:33-36, the pre-incarnate Jesus, the personification of wisdom, as recorded in The following: That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3.

Definition of FIRSTBORN from the dictionary:1. first in the order of birth; eldest.2. a firstborn child.3. a first result or product.

Jesus did not become the Son of God/God the Son until documented in Mt.1:20 and in Lk,1:35.

KJV TRANSLATION OF PR.8:22-25:

Pr.8:22-25 (KJV): "The Lord POSSESSED me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old.23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; When there were no fountains abounding with water." 25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills, I was brought forth:"

Pr.8:22-25 (NIV): "22“The Lord BROUGHT ME FORTH as the first of his works,c before his deeds of old; I23I was formed long ages ago,at the very beginning, when the world came to be.24When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,when there were no springs overflowing with water;25before the mountains were settled in place,before the hills, I WAS GIVEN BIRTH,"

OTHER PLACES WHERE WHERE THE HEBREW WORD POSSESS IS USED:

Gen.14:19: "And he blessed him, and said, Blessed are you Abram of the most high God, POSSESSOR of heaven and earth:" And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the POSSESSOR of heaven and earth," KJV. 22: "And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth," KJV

SAME TWO VERSES IN THE NIV:

"and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, CREATOR of heaven and earth."

"Abram said to the king of Sodom, With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, CREATOR of heaven and earth"

Annotation in the Scofield 1967 edition of the KJV in reference to Pr.8:22:

"That wisdom is more than the personification of an attribute of God, or of the will of God as best for man, but is a distinct foreshadowing of , is certain." Page 677. Fully endorsed by the following Trinitatians, who don't argue with the Scriptural facts:

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.


Quasar92
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
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#74
Correction: nowhere in The NT does it describe
Jesus as "God The Son" the Bible Always describes Jesus as "The Son of God". This is the only Jesus is described
Well that's not true rba. If you use a little common sense one will be able to deduce that Jesus Christ is God the Son. For instance, Thomas at John 20:28 identifies Jesus Christ by saying literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me." Who do you think Thomas was referring to, God the Father?

Secondly, why does not Jesus correct Thomas and tell him I'm not your Lord or God? Thirdly, to say the Father is God, is equal to saying "God the Father." In like manner, to say the Son of God (like Thomas declared, and btw that is the highest form of worship) is equal to saying "God the Son." Incidently, I'm 100% sure your not even familar with the Jewish idiom known as "the son of." Go ahead, do some homework and figure out what that means. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
R

RBA238

Guest
#75
Well that's not true rba. If you use a little common sense one will be able to deduce that Jesus Christ is God the Son. For instance, Thomas at John 20:28 identifies Jesus Christ by saying literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me." Who do you think Thomas was referring to, God the Father?

Secondly, why does not Jesus correct Thomas and tell him I'm not your Lord or God? Thirdly, to say the Father is God, is equal to saying "God the Father." In like manner, to say the Son of God (like Thomas declared, and btw that is the highest form of worship) is equal to saying "God the Son." Incidently, I'm 100% sure your not even familar with the Jewish idiom known as "the son of." Go ahead, do some homework and figure out what that means. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
If you cannot fathom what i have described unto.you, no sense keep this going. There is no trinity....Remember this: When you.stand before The Lord, at the great White Throne Judgement , ask him where tne "Other Two Persons" are..Over and out..
 

EarsToHear

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2016
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#76
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father (God), the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit): and these three are one.
 
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RBA238

Guest
#77
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father (God), the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit): and these three are one.
You nailed it perfectly..Thx!
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
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#78
If you cannot fathom what i have described unto.you, no sense keep this going. There is no trinity....Remember this: When you.stand before The Lord, at the great White Throne Judgement , ask him where tne "Other Two Persons" are..Over and out..
Oh wow rba, that was real "cogent" answer? First of all I did "fathom" your answer and that was the reason for my reply which btw you did not rebutt. Instead making immature comments the likes of which, "The Lord will show you when you stand before Him" show me why I'm wrong? Anybody can make claims/statements but you have to prove your claim by using the Bible.

Now, I gave you solid proof that in my opening post that there are three and only three persons in the entire Bible that are clearly identified as God and yet there is only "ONE GOD." Maybe you can tell me in what respect is God one in being? In fact, I'll even help you. At John 10:30 Jesus said the following: "I and the Father we are one." After Jesus said that the Jews at vs33 said, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You being a man make Yourself out God."

So again, in what respect is Jesus Christ one with God the Father? Even the Jews knew what Jesus meant, why don't you? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
531
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#79
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father (God), the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit): and these three are one.
Ok ears, please explain to me what the verse means and what is it teaching us? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#80
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father (God), the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit): and these three are one.
this passage was not in the original book of john, it was a footnote that was added hundreds of years later. its things like this that should make people ask themselves why would someone add something to the bible thats not supposed to be there.