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I'm one who's all for arguments and discussion about some occasionally arcane topics. Thank you OP for acknowledging that it is more about discerning when and how, rather than 'if' we should have such discussions. That's helpful, and accurate, I think.
The bigger problem I think is when people actually assume people asking questions are trolls (my current pet peeve with CC'rs - fight the kneejerk reaction to call anyone you disagree with a troll or a bot, people!!!).
Sure, they might actually be trolling. But why assume that they are? It's not going to cost you anything to assume they're asking genuine questions - if they are a troll having a laugh, they'll get their kicks, make all us Christians look super dumb, we have a laugh about it and then go on to living our lives. No big deal.
BUT. If they ARE asking genuine questions, then what and how you respond could make a world of difference. Actual big deal.
Just something to think about.
The bigger problem I think is when people actually assume people asking questions are trolls (my current pet peeve with CC'rs - fight the kneejerk reaction to call anyone you disagree with a troll or a bot, people!!!).
Sure, they might actually be trolling. But why assume that they are? It's not going to cost you anything to assume they're asking genuine questions - if they are a troll having a laugh, they'll get their kicks, make all us Christians look super dumb, we have a laugh about it and then go on to living our lives. No big deal.
BUT. If they ARE asking genuine questions, then what and how you respond could make a world of difference. Actual big deal.
Just something to think about.
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Sometimes the obnoxious ones need the most prayers. Perhaps we should all pray for discernment compassion and wisdom before we post or speak. Jesus tells us to forgive and pray for those who oppose God. How many times do we actually practice His teachings?
I have been on this forum for a while and seen some wonderful heartfelt moments and made some great friends and learned alot about the Bible different denominations heresy and myself. However I have seen misunderstanding hard words anger slander change into forgiveness and reconciliation through prayer patience and love.
We only see the surface but often I see the pain of people rejected and searching. People blinded by lies and burdened by false teaching who lash out in anger.
God doesn't tell us to fight with these people but to help them remove their burdens by speaking His truth. To love them and walk with them. To pray for and with them for His healing and wisdom.
I have been on this forum for a while and seen some wonderful heartfelt moments and made some great friends and learned alot about the Bible different denominations heresy and myself. However I have seen misunderstanding hard words anger slander change into forgiveness and reconciliation through prayer patience and love.
We only see the surface but often I see the pain of people rejected and searching. People blinded by lies and burdened by false teaching who lash out in anger.
God doesn't tell us to fight with these people but to help them remove their burdens by speaking His truth. To love them and walk with them. To pray for and with them for His healing and wisdom.
awc I know and understand where you are coming from. I have had a great concern for a long time about how new believers are damaged from war threads and how ppl are scared away from cc from our attacks on each other. I have tried many times to get ppl to understand and have said many times we are called to love and that if we cannot debate in a calm and Christ like manner we shouldn't be debating at all. I have tried to keep peace in the bdf many times however I am often ignored as I come in the heat of battle to try to remind everyone these things but you know how it is in war.
far to many times I have seen beloved Christians even beloved friends of mine being mean and hateful in such debates too many times love has waxed cold to many times we show that the world judges us correctly when they say we are hypocrites and that we are judgmental. we preach on love on treating others as Christ would but we ourselves do not act out what we preach
far to many times I have seen beloved Christians even beloved friends of mine being mean and hateful in such debates too many times love has waxed cold to many times we show that the world judges us correctly when they say we are hypocrites and that we are judgmental. we preach on love on treating others as Christ would but we ourselves do not act out what we preach
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I had a lot of trouble passing beginners-beginners class for swimming, but beginners, intermediates, and advance classes all happened in the same pool on lovely summer days. When I watched the more advance classes, I got they had to learn what I was having trouble learning to begin with. And I admired them for getting past what I was having trouble understanding. And it motivated me to do the one thing I feared I'd not not be able to do -- swim the length of the pool.
Even if the Big Boys argue all day, don't think the little ones aren't watching and antsy to be able to answer those same questions in their head. Seeing is motivation too. Arguing is fine. If it bothers someone, we are free not to watch.
I once tried to see how many laps I could swim. I got bored after 90 minutes, but I wasn't tired. I can dive in -- literally and figuratively -- now. None of that would have happened if I didn't see others could swim a lap of a pool without dying. lol
Even if the Big Boys argue all day, don't think the little ones aren't watching and antsy to be able to answer those same questions in their head. Seeing is motivation too. Arguing is fine. If it bothers someone, we are free not to watch.
I once tried to see how many laps I could swim. I got bored after 90 minutes, but I wasn't tired. I can dive in -- literally and figuratively -- now. None of that would have happened if I didn't see others could swim a lap of a pool without dying. lol
Lol. I call you out on your shortfalls and your response is to shift the focus on me and my shortfalls.
Since you mentioned it, I did hit the sidewalk once and that was well before you were even born. Since then, you can't even begin to imagine my life experience. You would tremble to walk where I walk; you would cringe to be in the midst of those with whom I associate; you would be in awe of the very real love and respect I am given by those who can knock me to the sidewalk but would never dream of it.
Why is that? Because I am direct, honest, trustworthy, respectful and loving. Your word is who you are, and everyone knows I am a friend and brother; a trustworthy guiding light with only the best intentions for others, and my directness has a lot to do with it. Blacks, bikers, gays and non-Christians who want nothing to do with straight, White, Christian men welcome me into their lives and into their homes on a daily basis. I am blessed beyond imagination.
CC is child's play, and in a few years you'll understand where I'm coming from. Until then, it's my heartfelt prayer that one day you will be as blessed as I am. Especially by those who would otherwise consider knocking you to the sidewalk.
Don't take my words as insulting but rather as instruments of opportunity for growth. That's how I take your words, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out when necessary. Like I said, most folks here care about others, you're not one of merely two or three people who do.
Since you mentioned it, I did hit the sidewalk once and that was well before you were even born. Since then, you can't even begin to imagine my life experience. You would tremble to walk where I walk; you would cringe to be in the midst of those with whom I associate; you would be in awe of the very real love and respect I am given by those who can knock me to the sidewalk but would never dream of it.
Why is that? Because I am direct, honest, trustworthy, respectful and loving. Your word is who you are, and everyone knows I am a friend and brother; a trustworthy guiding light with only the best intentions for others, and my directness has a lot to do with it. Blacks, bikers, gays and non-Christians who want nothing to do with straight, White, Christian men welcome me into their lives and into their homes on a daily basis. I am blessed beyond imagination.
CC is child's play, and in a few years you'll understand where I'm coming from. Until then, it's my heartfelt prayer that one day you will be as blessed as I am. Especially by those who would otherwise consider knocking you to the sidewalk.
Don't take my words as insulting but rather as instruments of opportunity for growth. That's how I take your words, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to call you out when necessary. Like I said, most folks here care about others, you're not one of merely two or three people who do.
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Yeesh! Really? You came along at the right time to see this amazing thread started by VW about showing how to care better on here. You're reaction was to scold us and start your own post. And then when some of us tried to tell you that (and I remember me trying to say that to you more than anyone else), I got scolded again.
I'm still learning to hold my tongue. (My tongue is more wiggly than a late-summer worm after a soaking rain, so not easy to do that, and it does get away from me often enough.) Because of that, I left you alone when you decided to play the "told you so" card again on this post. It is wearing on me that you keep thinking you're the only one who does care on here. I've noticed you enough to know your horse isn't a Clydesdale. It's not a Shetland either. I can tell, because I'm on neither too.
A continual family joke in my blood family is about who passed the gas. We've come down to, "He who first smelt it, dealt it." You keep smelling lack of grace of others. Might want to check into that. And I say that as someone who does struggle with that myself, so have smelled the bad odor often. At least I know when it's coming from me at times.
As for Utah? Yo! He's from Jersey. So am I. You're going to have to learn we're not elegant, but we're annoyingly honest.
I'm still learning to hold my tongue. (My tongue is more wiggly than a late-summer worm after a soaking rain, so not easy to do that, and it does get away from me often enough.) Because of that, I left you alone when you decided to play the "told you so" card again on this post. It is wearing on me that you keep thinking you're the only one who does care on here. I've noticed you enough to know your horse isn't a Clydesdale. It's not a Shetland either. I can tell, because I'm on neither too.
A continual family joke in my blood family is about who passed the gas. We've come down to, "He who first smelt it, dealt it." You keep smelling lack of grace of others. Might want to check into that. And I say that as someone who does struggle with that myself, so have smelled the bad odor often. At least I know when it's coming from me at times.
As for Utah? Yo! He's from Jersey. So am I. You're going to have to learn we're not elegant, but we're annoyingly honest.
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What amazing thread started by VW are you referring to? I'm hoping beyond hope that you're not referring to his The heresies of the few thread, but it seems as if you are because that is where I scolded you and unapologetically so and that is also what prompted my own thread The heresies of the many. Is it even possible that you cannot detect the self-righteous, holier than thou, condescending pride and spiritual elitism even in that thread's title, The heresies of the few? Here is the OP of my The heresies of the many thread in its entirety:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115975-heresies-many.html
What is wrong with what I stated and asked there? My point was that whereas people from both sides of opposing arguments regularly accuse members on the other side of being heretics, people from both sides of the argument are regularly exhibiting the works of the flesh as opposed to the fruits of the Spirit and heresies are listed right alongside the works of the flesh. In other words, people from both sides of the opposing arguments ought to seriously consider that they are in fact the heretics in that they're regularly exhibiting the very types of sinful works which appear right alongside heresies. Also, far from siding with the wolverines as you later falsely accused me of in that thread, I was taking neither side in that I believe that people from both sides are wrong, hence my The heresies of the many title, and my target audience was those new to the faith or those considering the Christian faith and not the wolverines that you later alleged that I was siding with.
Again, is The heresies of the few the thread that you're referring to which allegedly shows how to better care on here? If it is, then shame on you. Nothing that I read up until the time that I made my single post and then left showed anything other than sinful pride. Well, except, perhaps, for the post that I agreed with. And what has happened to that forum member since? Well, he was banned from this forum some time within the past two days. Sure, he used a word that he shouldn't have used, but, as usual, forum members provoked him, even as they do others, with their own ungodly behavior. Do you care that this member was banned and that his own faith may become shipwrecked? I do. In fact, I exchanged several pm's with him immediately after I read his post that I agreed with on VW's thread in which I reached out to him and encouraged him to not let the ungodly manners of some darken his own view of Christ and I'm sorry to see him go.
What?
I liked your OP, I commented on the same and even repped you for it, didn't I? How is that me playing the told you so card again? You basically said the same thing that I've been saying all along in your OP, didn't you? Why then aren't you playing the told you so card too? And what is the problem with me telling anybody so anyhow? Somebody certainly needed to speak up against the likes of the things that you and others were supporting in direct contrast to Christ and His Word. It's like I said last night on another thread:
Some of you seem to think that this forum is a church and that you're the pastor, elders and deacons who need to purge out all of the leaven and run the heretics out of town.
You're not. This is a forum. If you cannot interact civilly and respectfully with others of opposing views or beliefs, then shame on you. Seriously, log off of your computers and go and repent before God. How do you people interact with those of opposing views in other life situations? If you have a co-worker who is a non-believer or even a God mocker, do you verbally abuse him, wait for him outside in the parking lot and beat the stuffing out of him or put poison in his coffee and wish him dead? That's the type of attitude which some here have shown towards others and it is utterly reprehensible in the sight of the Lord. If it bothers you that I point out what ought to be obvious to anybody who's read even a tiny portion of the Bible, then that's your own personal problem. If you don't like me or my straightforward manner, then report me, ignore me or whatever. I really don't care. I'm more concerned for those new to the faith and potential seekers than I am for overgrown crybabies.
Also, I have nothing against VW whatsoever and I only mentioned his thread because you mentioned it first. He seems to have done a sincere about face and I respect him for the same. He also has seemingly been encouraging others here to change their tactics as well and if so, then I commend him for that as well.
Finally, none of my comments here were directed at this site's Administrator or Moderators. They have a right to exercise judgment according to the site's rules, but my point is that none of the members here are the judgment seat of Christ. Seriously, drop the shaking the dust off of your feet graphics, the rejoicing emoticons when somebody gets banned and all of the other unholy garbage. Jesus came to save men and not to destroy them. Some of you seemingly have no idea what spirit you're of assuming that you even belong to Christ to begin with.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/115975-heresies-many.html
What is wrong with what I stated and asked there? My point was that whereas people from both sides of opposing arguments regularly accuse members on the other side of being heretics, people from both sides of the argument are regularly exhibiting the works of the flesh as opposed to the fruits of the Spirit and heresies are listed right alongside the works of the flesh. In other words, people from both sides of the opposing arguments ought to seriously consider that they are in fact the heretics in that they're regularly exhibiting the very types of sinful works which appear right alongside heresies. Also, far from siding with the wolverines as you later falsely accused me of in that thread, I was taking neither side in that I believe that people from both sides are wrong, hence my The heresies of the many title, and my target audience was those new to the faith or those considering the Christian faith and not the wolverines that you later alleged that I was siding with.
Again, is The heresies of the few the thread that you're referring to which allegedly shows how to better care on here? If it is, then shame on you. Nothing that I read up until the time that I made my single post and then left showed anything other than sinful pride. Well, except, perhaps, for the post that I agreed with. And what has happened to that forum member since? Well, he was banned from this forum some time within the past two days. Sure, he used a word that he shouldn't have used, but, as usual, forum members provoked him, even as they do others, with their own ungodly behavior. Do you care that this member was banned and that his own faith may become shipwrecked? I do. In fact, I exchanged several pm's with him immediately after I read his post that I agreed with on VW's thread in which I reached out to him and encouraged him to not let the ungodly manners of some darken his own view of Christ and I'm sorry to see him go.
What?
I liked your OP, I commented on the same and even repped you for it, didn't I? How is that me playing the told you so card again? You basically said the same thing that I've been saying all along in your OP, didn't you? Why then aren't you playing the told you so card too? And what is the problem with me telling anybody so anyhow? Somebody certainly needed to speak up against the likes of the things that you and others were supporting in direct contrast to Christ and His Word. It's like I said last night on another thread:
Some of you seem to think that this forum is a church and that you're the pastor, elders and deacons who need to purge out all of the leaven and run the heretics out of town.
You're not. This is a forum. If you cannot interact civilly and respectfully with others of opposing views or beliefs, then shame on you. Seriously, log off of your computers and go and repent before God. How do you people interact with those of opposing views in other life situations? If you have a co-worker who is a non-believer or even a God mocker, do you verbally abuse him, wait for him outside in the parking lot and beat the stuffing out of him or put poison in his coffee and wish him dead? That's the type of attitude which some here have shown towards others and it is utterly reprehensible in the sight of the Lord. If it bothers you that I point out what ought to be obvious to anybody who's read even a tiny portion of the Bible, then that's your own personal problem. If you don't like me or my straightforward manner, then report me, ignore me or whatever. I really don't care. I'm more concerned for those new to the faith and potential seekers than I am for overgrown crybabies.
Also, I have nothing against VW whatsoever and I only mentioned his thread because you mentioned it first. He seems to have done a sincere about face and I respect him for the same. He also has seemingly been encouraging others here to change their tactics as well and if so, then I commend him for that as well.
Finally, none of my comments here were directed at this site's Administrator or Moderators. They have a right to exercise judgment according to the site's rules, but my point is that none of the members here are the judgment seat of Christ. Seriously, drop the shaking the dust off of your feet graphics, the rejoicing emoticons when somebody gets banned and all of the other unholy garbage. Jesus came to save men and not to destroy them. Some of you seemingly have no idea what spirit you're of assuming that you even belong to Christ to begin with.
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Jesus corrected unbelievers, and believers alike, such as Peter.
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 1:10
Granted, there are professing Christians who really aren't Christians that will be controversial.
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:33
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 1:10
Granted, there are professing Christians who really aren't Christians that will be controversial.
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:33
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I wasn't trying to shift any focus nor am I opposed to being called out. I mean, you called me out on that thread where I posted that photo of a stoning in poor judgment, didn't you? How did I respond? I apologized three different times on that thread and I've also offered public apologies on other threads on several different occasions in my short time here on this forum.
That said, I shouldn't have used such a broad brush in my initial comments on this thread. I honestly believe that there are a lot of decent people on this forum and I apologize to anybody whom I might have maligned with my comments. Please forgive me and I'll choose my words more carefully in the future. I'm sorry.
That said, I shouldn't have used such a broad brush in my initial comments on this thread. I honestly believe that there are a lot of decent people on this forum and I apologize to anybody whom I might have maligned with my comments. Please forgive me and I'll choose my words more carefully in the future. I'm sorry.