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Luke 15:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And He said, “A man had two sons. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.’ So he divided his wealth between them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be impoverished. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And he would have gladly filled his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.”’ [SUP]20 [/SUP]So he got up and came to [SUP][i][/SUP]his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; [SUP]24 [/SUP]for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he answered and said to his father, ‘Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends; [SUP]30 [/SUP]but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ [SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said to him, ‘Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.’”
This is a very good description for those who have received Salvation and have walked back into the World. God never gives up on us. He is waiting for us to return to Him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And He said, “A man had two sons. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.’ So he divided his wealth between them. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be impoverished. [SUP]15 [/SUP]So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And he would have gladly filled his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But when he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! [SUP]18 [/SUP]I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; [SUP]19 [/SUP]I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men.”’ [SUP]20 [/SUP]So he got up and came to [SUP][i][/SUP]his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet; [SUP]23 [/SUP]and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate; [SUP]24 [/SUP]for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him. [SUP]29 [/SUP]But he answered and said to his father, ‘Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends; [SUP]30 [/SUP]but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.’ [SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said to him, ‘Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. [SUP]32 [/SUP]But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.’”
This is a very good description for those who have received Salvation and have walked back into the World. God never gives up on us. He is waiting for us to return to Him.
Because it states a person saved himself by staying in faith ..It takes God and his death out of the equation,..
I wanted to highlight this phrase. The people who hold to this theology are saying a climber who has faith in the rope when he falls is saving himself. If you ever go rock climbing you know the rope is useless unless attached with someone on the other end. And the anchor point and the other person is where your salvation resides, the rope is just the means of delivery.
These people hate themselves. No matter how much God says he loves them, that they can do good and marvelous things, they have spent their life living to rules in their heads and failing, day in day out. To them God is just a nit picker, whose role is to cast them down. They continually say they sin, everyday, and their standards are real, and there just to show how big a sinner they are and how much they need God to do everything, including wiping their nose and keeping them honest.
This is the religion of the world. But listen to the temple. Walk with me, and in your failure you can find restitution, putting things right through sacrifice, repentance. But most of all learn to love, learn to let your love flow from your heart, learn to know how precious life is, and how much sin destroys and robs it from us though we think we are slaves to sin, it is because we so often do not allow ourselves to be slaves to love, hard, sacrificial, costly love.
Learn through the cross, that love is eternal, that the highest of all will come to the lowest of all and pick them up.
So those who depend on OSAS believe that betrayal of the world and life is only reassured by this doctrine. Rather than letting love flow from their hearts, they sell out, because that is so much safer, still protected, and yet saved. If they had been touched deeply by Christ and His love, OSAS would just fade away.
I wanted to highlight this phrase. The people who hold to this theology are saying a climber who has faith in the rope when he falls is saving himself. If you ever go rock climbing you know the rope is useless unless attached with someone on the other end. And the anchor point and the other person is where your salvation resides, the rope is just the means of delivery.
These people hate themselves. No matter how much God says he loves them, that they can do good and marvelous things, they have spent their life living to rules in their heads and failing, day in day out. To them God is just a nit picker, whose role is to cast them down. They continually say they sin, everyday, and their standards are real, and there just to show how big a sinner they are and how much they need God to do everything, including wiping their nose and keeping them honest.
This is the religion of the world. But listen to the temple. Walk with me, and in your failure you can find restitution, putting things right through sacrifice, repentance. But most of all learn to love, learn to let your love flow from your heart, learn to know how precious life is, and how much sin destroys and robs it from us though we think we are slaves to sin, it is because we so often do not allow ourselves to be slaves to love, hard, sacrificial, costly love.
Learn through the cross, that love is eternal, that the highest of all will come to the lowest of all and pick them up.
So those who depend on OSAS believe that betrayal of the world and life is only reassured by this doctrine. Rather than letting love flow from their hearts, they sell out, because that is so much safer, still protected, and yet saved. If they had been touched deeply by Christ and His love, OSAS would just fade away.
Love is always waiting. It always hopes and works for the future.
But the end does come and judgement does fall.
The problem is sin and love. Those who do not know how love works, want to be soft on sin. They have no clue how the heart operates and how betrayal and lack of trust eats away at who they are.
A demonstration of this was coming on cc to share the power of Gods love, was to be attacked. To defend those being diverse, exploratory, helpful to others, and sharing needs, was attacked as being of the enemy. Unless you followed faith in their specific criteria and authority, you were of the enemy. There was no faith in Gods will or control, just their spiritual discernment, and ones obvious failure, possibly human, possibly demonic. And what is the position these men and women of God were taking OSAS. I mean they were Gods anointed, they knew through their spirits what was right and wrong, and love was old hat, the legalistic church that was dying.
And is you fail to hold to OSAS you cannot be saved, you must be a legalist earning your salvation.
But it does make sense because deep down Jesus has not touched them. The mess still rules, the chaos is still king, and they do not know why these things appeal they just do.
If you want a sign of someone who knows Jesus, it is in their heart. They are anchored in His love.
But the end does come and judgement does fall.
The problem is sin and love. Those who do not know how love works, want to be soft on sin. They have no clue how the heart operates and how betrayal and lack of trust eats away at who they are.
A demonstration of this was coming on cc to share the power of Gods love, was to be attacked. To defend those being diverse, exploratory, helpful to others, and sharing needs, was attacked as being of the enemy. Unless you followed faith in their specific criteria and authority, you were of the enemy. There was no faith in Gods will or control, just their spiritual discernment, and ones obvious failure, possibly human, possibly demonic. And what is the position these men and women of God were taking OSAS. I mean they were Gods anointed, they knew through their spirits what was right and wrong, and love was old hat, the legalistic church that was dying.
And is you fail to hold to OSAS you cannot be saved, you must be a legalist earning your salvation.
But it does make sense because deep down Jesus has not touched them. The mess still rules, the chaos is still king, and they do not know why these things appeal they just do.
If you want a sign of someone who knows Jesus, it is in their heart. They are anchored in His love.
B
Well we are predestined yes. We all are, because everyone can acces the gift of Christ. Look in Ephesians 1:3-5:
" [FONT="]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:[/FONT][FONT="]4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
so it's written we receive blessings 'in Christ', 'according as He has chosen us in Him(Christ), BEFORE the foundation/The Creation of the world'
So God's planned for us the crucification of Jesus. He prepared this/ he chose us all through Christ, He made a plan before creating us. This doesn't mean we were that special persons, that lucky persons that were chosen. All people on this Earth have acces to this gift, so 'are chosen'o but only few choose to follow Him. Read the Bible people because it's all written there.
[/FONT]
B
Well we are predestined yes. We all are, because everyone can acces the gift of Christ. Look in Ephesians 1:3-5:
" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
so it's written we receive blessings 'in Christ', 'according as He has chosen us in Him(Christ), BEFORE the foundation/The Creation of the world'
So God's planned for us the crucification of Jesus. He prepared this/ he chose us all through Christ, He made a plan before creating us. This doesn't mean we were that special persons, that lucky persons that were chosen. All people on this Earth have acces to this gift, so 'are chosen'o but only few choose to follow Him. Read the Bible people because it's all written there.
" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
so it's written we receive blessings 'in Christ', 'according as He has chosen us in Him(Christ), BEFORE the foundation/The Creation of the world'
So God's planned for us the crucification of Jesus. He prepared this/ he chose us all through Christ, He made a plan before creating us. This doesn't mean we were that special persons, that lucky persons that were chosen. All people on this Earth have acces to this gift, so 'are chosen'o but only few choose to follow Him. Read the Bible people because it's all written there.
And we were predestined before the Creation of Earth, to have acces to redemtion through Jesus sacrifice. The Old Testament is full with prophesies of His coming (Isaiah 53, Psalms 22: 16-18: [FONT="]For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.[/FONT][FONT="]17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.")[/FONT]
18 [FONT="]They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture."
[/FONT], and prefigurations of His coming, like the image of Isaac carying the wood on which he had to be sacrificed, on a mountain (Jesus had to carry His cross) in the country of Moria, by his father Avraam. And Numbers 21: 8-9" 8 [FONT="]And the [/FONT][FONT="]Lord[/FONT][FONT="] said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.[/FONT][FONT="]9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived." another prefiguration of the act of Christ. [/FONT]
Well we are predestined yes. We all are, because everyone can acces the gift of Christ. Look in Ephesians 1:3-5:
" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
so it's written we receive blessings 'in Christ', 'according as He has chosen us in Him(Christ), BEFORE the foundation/The Creation of the world'
So God's planned for us the crucification of Jesus. He prepared this/ he chose us all through Christ, He made a plan before creating us. This doesn't mean we were that special persons, that lucky persons that were chosen. All people on this Earth have acces to this gift, so 'are chosen'o but only few choose to follow Him. Read the Bible people because it's all written there.
" Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
so it's written we receive blessings 'in Christ', 'according as He has chosen us in Him(Christ), BEFORE the foundation/The Creation of the world'
So God's planned for us the crucification of Jesus. He prepared this/ he chose us all through Christ, He made a plan before creating us. This doesn't mean we were that special persons, that lucky persons that were chosen. All people on this Earth have acces to this gift, so 'are chosen'o but only few choose to follow Him. Read the Bible people because it's all written there.
Jesus said many are called, but few are chosen. So being called is different than being chosen. Christ's Apostles were chosen, Paul being one of the strongest examples since Paul was beforehand persecuting the Church. The OT Patriarchs and prophets were chosen. All those God made His direct Presence known to them; He intervened in their lives. That's a sign of a chosen sent one, the Greek word for apostle actually mean to be 'sent'.
Everyone else is 'called' only.
In John 17, our Lord's prayer showed this distinction between two different groups in Christ, the first one being His chosen sent ones, like His Apostles, and then those who come to believe from their word (i.e., preaching of The Gospel). Jesus prayed that we all then become 'one' body in Him and in The Father.
What this means is, a chosen elect sent one, like Christ's Apostles, have all blinders removed by The Holy Spirit and cannot be deceived, ever. They represent a leadership Christ has provided us that will not fail, because if they do get out of step with God's will, He will bring them back in line with discipline. God directly intervenes in their lives (Jonah, Paul).
1. The Chosen - For His elect chosen sent ones, God directs them according to His Divine Will, intervening in their lives. These have already been sanctified and glorified, prepared for His Salvation.
2. The Called - For those called only, He will let us fall away from Him if that's what we want. He will bring us back into His fold if we repent and ask Him.
That is why there's so much confusion with so many teachers that try to teach that subject. It's because they try to put all believers in that first group of 'chosen' sent ones when that only applies to a group of chosen sent elect, like Christ's Apostles, those who were contacted by The Lord directly in Person.
This is also why our Lord Jesus and His Apostles spent so much time warning the Church against falling away to wickedness and deception, because for the majority of believers, we are 'called' only, and can choose to fall away from the Faith, and God will allow us that choice. He won't let that happen with His very elect sent chosen ones though. As long as we who are 'called' only stay in Christ Jesus then we are counted elect along with Christ's very elect chosen sent ones.
That's correct, for us who are 'called' only and not 'chosen'. For a chosen elect, we already have the many Bible examples of God's servants that He chose for a certain duty, and when they tried to get out of it God still made them perform it. Jonah is one such example. A chosen elect sent one means direct intervention into one's life directly by God. He doesn't do that for all.
The Israelites died in the wilderness and failed to enter into the promised land. ( the promised land BTW is not going to heaven as there will be no giants in heaven to fight - it's a picture of living in Christ's life here on this earth ).
They did not enter into the promised land because of their unbelief ( some translations have that word as disobedience ).
Moses did not enter into the promised land as well because of his disobedience - yet Jesus was shown talking with him and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses is with the Lord now.
Moses died in the wilderness with all those other Israelites - all that died in the wilderness had different forms of unbelief/disobedience which led for them not entering into the promised land - which to us is a picture of the life of Christ being manifested in us in this earth now.
It's interesting to note that no one died nor was God angry with any of them that came out of Egypt until the Law was brought forth which the people asked for of Moses. After that - that's when they started to die.
Before that they were in grace based on Abraham's covenant and no one was harmed or died and everything was supplied by the Lord for them.
We need to stop this foolishness about people that are "in Christ" losing salvation for going to be with the Lord and start preaching Christ to people so that they can avoid the pit-falls of this life and walk in the inheritance that is theirs in Christ.
We need to be teaching the grace and love of Christ so that people can be built up in Him and walk in freedom in this present world. God is not looking for ways to keep people away from Him which is why Jesus died for us and took away the sin of the world.
He loves us dearly and wants us to be with Him and has provided everything we need and its through belief in Christ alone.
Let's preach the gospel for in "it" is the power of God for salvation. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed and the righteous shall live by faith to faith. ( not our own righteous doing although we will do good works by His life in us manifesting our as we grow in Him ) We need to hear the gospel every day as Christians in order to grow up in Him.
And there is a time for warning and rebuke for those that are not relying on Jesus for everything and how we believe will influence the quality of life we have here on this earth.
Some will die prematurely and will not be partakers of the quality of life that is in Christ to those who believe. The answer to unbelief is to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Most people have not probably even heard the real gospel yet so they don't know how to properly life in the true Christian life - which is completely dependent on Christ's finished work.
They did not enter into the promised land because of their unbelief ( some translations have that word as disobedience ).
Moses did not enter into the promised land as well because of his disobedience - yet Jesus was shown talking with him and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration. Moses is with the Lord now.
Moses died in the wilderness with all those other Israelites - all that died in the wilderness had different forms of unbelief/disobedience which led for them not entering into the promised land - which to us is a picture of the life of Christ being manifested in us in this earth now.
It's interesting to note that no one died nor was God angry with any of them that came out of Egypt until the Law was brought forth which the people asked for of Moses. After that - that's when they started to die.
Before that they were in grace based on Abraham's covenant and no one was harmed or died and everything was supplied by the Lord for them.
We need to stop this foolishness about people that are "in Christ" losing salvation for going to be with the Lord and start preaching Christ to people so that they can avoid the pit-falls of this life and walk in the inheritance that is theirs in Christ.
We need to be teaching the grace and love of Christ so that people can be built up in Him and walk in freedom in this present world. God is not looking for ways to keep people away from Him which is why Jesus died for us and took away the sin of the world.
He loves us dearly and wants us to be with Him and has provided everything we need and its through belief in Christ alone.
Let's preach the gospel for in "it" is the power of God for salvation. In "it" the righteousness of God is revealed and the righteous shall live by faith to faith. ( not our own righteous doing although we will do good works by His life in us manifesting our as we grow in Him ) We need to hear the gospel every day as Christians in order to grow up in Him.
And there is a time for warning and rebuke for those that are not relying on Jesus for everything and how we believe will influence the quality of life we have here on this earth.
Some will die prematurely and will not be partakers of the quality of life that is in Christ to those who believe. The answer to unbelief is to preach the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Most people have not probably even heard the real gospel yet so they don't know how to properly life in the true Christian life - which is completely dependent on Christ's finished work.
You will notice the authority and commanding approach. We assumes we are actually following the same faith.
Foolishness is a very strong term.
So those who do not hold to OSAS are fools. Jesus specifically describes this kind of judgementalism as worthy of hell.
It is strange how someone who feels they can never loose their salvation is prepared to use language which guarantees the very thing they deny is possible. But then Jesus could be lying.
This is the fruit of a theology that puts buying a ticket to heaven above righteousness and purity. But then in their theology it is righteousness and purity which is the delusion, because they hate themselves so much, how could they ever be worthy or pure and clean.
Foolishness is a very strong term.
So those who do not hold to OSAS are fools. Jesus specifically describes this kind of judgementalism as worthy of hell.
It is strange how someone who feels they can never loose their salvation is prepared to use language which guarantees the very thing they deny is possible. But then Jesus could be lying.
This is the fruit of a theology that puts buying a ticket to heaven above righteousness and purity. But then in their theology it is righteousness and purity which is the delusion, because they hate themselves so much, how could they ever be worthy or pure and clean.
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1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Case closed! - unless people want to continue on in unbelief in Christ's finished work. Let every man be persuaded in their own heart.
Awake to righteousness that is in you in Christ and sin will not dominate your life - especially unbelief in Christ's work. I love the Greek word for "Awake" - it means to come to one's self, to sober up to who you really are.
We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness in our inner man - where Christ is joined as one with us by the sealing of the Holy Spirit Eph. 1:13.
I encourage "believers" to fix your hope completely on the grace of Christ that comes when we get a revelation of Jesus and what He has done for us in His finished work.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Case closed! - unless people want to continue on in unbelief in Christ's finished work. Let every man be persuaded in their own heart.
Awake to righteousness that is in you in Christ and sin will not dominate your life - especially unbelief in Christ's work. I love the Greek word for "Awake" - it means to come to one's self, to sober up to who you really are.
We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness in our inner man - where Christ is joined as one with us by the sealing of the Holy Spirit Eph. 1:13.
I encourage "believers" to fix your hope completely on the grace of Christ that comes when we get a revelation of Jesus and what He has done for us in His finished work.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
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What this reveals is that hyper grace really is a Word of Faith theology that makes salvation only about this life. Since it holds that no one can lose salvation no matter what behavior they practice, eternal salvation is really not the issue. The incessant hyper grace proselytizing is about escaping the condemnation of a hyper-sensitized conscience for a better life in this world.