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Catholics believed that justification must be maintained through works and sacraments, not salvation. If they maintain justification then they will be saved. IT might seem like a fine point, but it's crucial because many Protestants believe that salvation is a one-time event, and not a life-long process.
For anyone that missed it, the keyword there is eternal 
There's no changing it's meaning. I really don't believe God would lie when He says we have eternal life.
There's no changing it's meaning. I really don't believe God would lie when He says we have eternal life.
There are 3 tenses to salvation:
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (Justification).
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing Sanctification).
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (Glorification).
Justification is a one-time event. Ongoing Sanctification is a life-long event.
1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (Justification).
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing Sanctification).
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (Glorification).
Justification is a one-time event. Ongoing Sanctification is a life-long event.
It is obvious that your argument is not an argument at all.
You do not believe sin is a salvation issue.
The argument about works has been closed in the time of the apostles.
Without works your faith is dead.
A christian living in sin is not a christian. The two concepts do not go together.
But you have not addressed this issue, so obviously your answer is flawed.
You do not believe sin is a salvation issue.
The argument about works has been closed in the time of the apostles.
Without works your faith is dead.
A christian living in sin is not a christian. The two concepts do not go together.
But you have not addressed this issue, so obviously your answer is flawed.
an abundance of irrelevent words - I never thought of theology as an abundance of irrelevant words
I have to conclude this is also your attitude to Christs words and precepts.
But I do understand. If belief in Christ is just faith in Him and everything else is heresy, then you have
already closed your mind and heart of to the foundations of walking with Jesus.
So many religious people do this, because to think is to get confused and feel unsure of yourself.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:2
If faith is just about belief or faith in Christ, the above words would be empty.
To test and approve of God's will takes effort and thought.
And at the very foundation is love and morality. Yet it strikes me this is the very
thing you are trying to run away from, while actually condemning yourself daily
with hyper-legalism. Jesus came to set you free from all this by shining a light
on real sin, and getting yourself right with God and man.
I have to conclude this is also your attitude to Christs words and precepts.
But I do understand. If belief in Christ is just faith in Him and everything else is heresy, then you have
already closed your mind and heart of to the foundations of walking with Jesus.
So many religious people do this, because to think is to get confused and feel unsure of yourself.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Rom 12:2
If faith is just about belief or faith in Christ, the above words would be empty.
To test and approve of God's will takes effort and thought.
And at the very foundation is love and morality. Yet it strikes me this is the very
thing you are trying to run away from, while actually condemning yourself daily
with hyper-legalism. Jesus came to set you free from all this by shining a light
on real sin, and getting yourself right with God and man.
I am a student of God and the beliefs of man.
And as I have said before it is not the person putting the argument that matters, rather
the argument itself. It appears you do not have an answer to the position so are attempting
to play the man.
And our teacher is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.
It appears this is where you are lacking.
And as I have said before it is not the person putting the argument that matters, rather
the argument itself. It appears you do not have an answer to the position so are attempting
to play the man.
And our teacher is the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.
It appears this is where you are lacking.
Interesting generalisation. As soon as you start with the idea of a mark, you need to define which
marks are you refering to. Like the rich young man, I walk blamelessly. But Jesus said, give all your
wealth to the poor and come follow me, if you want to be perfect.
And no we do not all fail to qualify, once we have been cleansed and purified by Christ.
Yes in our old lives, but it is our faith that we can walk in love and righeousness, now today.
Or do you disbelieve Christ and the apostles?
marks are you refering to. Like the rich young man, I walk blamelessly. But Jesus said, give all your
wealth to the poor and come follow me, if you want to be perfect.
And no we do not all fail to qualify, once we have been cleansed and purified by Christ.
Yes in our old lives, but it is our faith that we can walk in love and righeousness, now today.
Or do you disbelieve Christ and the apostles?
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peter, I wish you would quit playing games. you know exactly what I am talking about. Biblical definition of sin. but since you think you have none, you make up, or use a man-made system to lower the standard.
no one shuold read the Bible and think " well, I don't do most of that so I'm o/k". dangerous thinking when you get there.
no one shuold read the Bible and think " well, I don't do most of that so I'm o/k". dangerous thinking when you get there.
Amen..whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Legalists have a very low opinion of sin in order to justify their "good works" for their salvation. They won't steal, or commit physical adultery or murder but they will be filled with malice and slander and bitterness and to them - this is perfectly acceptable.
In their "minds" they are walking blameless.
They water down the law and sin so that they can be justified in their own eyes. Living from the belief in the finished work of the grace of Christ is the only way to live the true Christian life.
Legalists have a very low opinion of sin in order to justify their "good works" for their salvation. They won't steal, or commit physical adultery or murder but they will be filled with malice and slander and bitterness and to them - this is perfectly acceptable.
In their "minds" they are walking blameless.
They water down the law and sin so that they can be justified in their own eyes. Living from the belief in the finished work of the grace of Christ is the only way to live the true Christian life.
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