Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

Sure we have much in common dear friend but obviously, you have far more knowledge than me about these things.

You express deep thoughts really well, in an articulate, interesting way which really appeals to me. Kudos!

Thank you for your very kind words, sweet lady... and yes, the heavens declare the glory of God but man is sent
to declare the gospel. Jesus told us he came to open the eyes of the blind, unstop the ears of the deaf, and give
life to the dead... but to hear many speak, they did these things for themselves. That defies logic also! Yes, to
hear them speak one could be excused for thinking they believe they circumcised their own hearts as well.
I know Who circumcised my heart and it most assuredly was not me.

Romans 10:13-15 ~ Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[Magenta]

Philippians 3:3; Colossians 2:11; Romans 2:29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, in the putting off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 17:9 plus John 3:19-20

 

[LifelongLearner]

Salvation issues and every day life. Blain, you are mixing apples and oranges. You know what doesn't make sense to me? Is how I can explain my beliefs about choice and the natural man vs the spiritual man for months on end to someone and then after all that they turn around and claim I have said man does not have a choice, as if we are all bots. Well, guess what? I have never, ever, said any such thing! Then after giving a plethora of verses over and over and over and over and over and over and over again I am told they have no idea what I mean when I talk about the natural man vs the spiritual man. Jeepers! Do these people not read the Bible at all? One must wonder. They make no distinction at all between the person who is enabled and the one who is not, and ascribe to the latter qualities and abilities only the former possess. And that is the crux of the discussion around free will. Introducing what you eat or what colour of socks you decide to wear has absolutely zero to do with any of it.

That is absolutely one of the standout, at least to me, posts on this thread and you've posted a few of those yourself.

It's interesting so many conflate free will with the limited choice and agency which is available to us. So many don't realise how socially conditioned we are in this evil system, the UK version of it is called Behavioural Insights.

Yep, meaning we're scrutinised so they can create useful triggers to manipulate us into thinking/behaving in ways useful to those with some power. First time i really thought rogue psychology was being used against us normies, was in my children's schools during the '90s.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 9:18; John 6:44; John 6:65; John 6:37; John 6:63; Titus 3:5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus’ words in John 6:65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1:21 and 2:13; Ephesians 2:1a and 3b; Philippians 1:6 and 2:13

 

[LifelongLearner]

Saturday and i'm seriously multitasking here, want to truly relax this evening so must go, will try to look in later.

Thinking of creating a post about starting a Christian Chat chess team, so we can go forth and put the fear of God into the cheats and other lowlives who infest such sites now. Please let me know if the idea appeals to you so i have some idea if it's worth creating a post.

 

[lrs68]

It's interesting so many conflate free will with the limited choice and agency which is available to us.

It's limited because ultimately there's only two possible choices to Free Will.

 

[GWH]

That is a tough but beautiful experience Jim, have often found times in my life which have been pretty nightmarish to go through, have a lovely end result.

You're absolutely spot on that salvation is purely of God. As someone who's felt awe/wonder deeply moved by something beautiful or amazing in life, i've often thought there must be a God.

However, occasional thoughts like that don't bestow salvation but think it possible God might respond to such thoughts at least some times, by putting in the work needed we just can't. Hope that makes sense, i'm an old dear but pretty new believer, text isn't the best medium for expressing deep thoughts either.

Yes, I do well to express medium depth thoughts here. :^)

 

[GWH]

Saturday and i'm seriously multitasking here, want to truly relax this evening so must go, will try to look in later.

Thinking of creating a post about starting a Christian Chat chess team, so we can go forth and put the fear of God into the cheats and other lowlives who infest such sites now. Please let me know if the idea appeals to you so i have some idea if it's worth creating a post.

I think that would not work and might backfire, so I encourage you to persevere in being pleasant. (1PT 3:15)

 

[LifelongLearner]

I think that would not work and might backfire, so I encourage you to persevere in being pleasant. (1PT 3:15)

Cheers for your reply friend, glad i floated the idea first, was uncertain about it myself. I really am appreciative when people offer sound advice, definitely not the sort who needs their ego or ears tickled.

 

[GWH]

Cheers for your reply friend, glad i floated the idea first, was uncertain about it myself. I really am appreciative when people offer sound advice, definitely not the sort who needs their ego or ears tickled.

Of course, I don't know what a CC chess team is.
(I don't even know how to Ignore someone :^)

 

[LifelongLearner]

It's limited because ultimately there's only two possible choices to Free Will.

Actually, if we genuinely could express free will, the potential could be pretty awesome but we can't. It could also be horrifying as the free will of others would often conflict with ours, think my saying we're really scratch each others backists is more accurate.

Seriously, the logical conclusion is that free will isn't possible, i also think it's great we need to share with and make allowances for others. Competing free wills is the sort of thing that causes world wars.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Of course, I don't know what a CC chess team is.
(I don't even know how to Ignore someone :^)

Bless you, i'm prone to getting overenthusiastic at times, not as uncomfortable as i have been lately, so in danger of going on a chess odyssey.

I love the game and am a very good player, 4 of my games were featured on the site i visited a little while ago. Thing is, i have a distinctive, in the wind style, so people know who i am and can be really spiteful as they don't like being beaten by a woman.

No longer think starting a chess team here would be a good idea.

 

[Magenta]

That is absolutely one of the standout, at least to me, posts on this thread and you've posted a few of those yourself.

It's interesting so many conflate free will with the limited choice and agency which is available to us. So many don't realise how socially conditioned we are in this evil system, the UK version of it is called Behavioural Insights.

Yep, meaning we're scrutinised so they can create useful triggers to manipulate us into thinking/behaving in ways useful to those with some power. First time i really thought rogue psychology was being used against us normies, was in my children's schools during the '90s.

Well, dear, the term free will is so widely embraced it is as if the many have put no thought at all into what the issue really is about and what the term really means, because at the heart of it is a heresy called Pelagianism. The same can be said for total depravity, for we see again and again people having knee jerk reactions to the words without ever caring to investigate what is really meant by them, and even when some are informed of what it really means, they will continue on for months afterwards as if they never have been informed, nor do they care about the truth of the matter, but only in clinging to their ignorance and knee jerk reactions. Of course many of them reject the notion that man is in any way depraved, and some will even claim that the natural man is a good guy, even though Jesus said there are none good... and that idea of none being good and man being corrupt is echoed repeatedly throughout Scripture, so obviously there is a problem with their understanding and their theology, but they refuse to see it. And these are all connected ideas... having to do with man's inability to choose rightly in their innate state, of needing their eyes ears and hearts opened first.

 

[Magenta]

Ephesians 4:17-18; Luke 6:43; Jeremiah 10:14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Well, dear, the term free will is so widely embraced it is as if the many have put no thought at all into what the issue really is about and what the term really means, because at the heart of it is a heresy called Pelagianism. The same can be said for total depravity, for we see again and again people having knee jerk reactions to the words without ever caring to investigate what is really meant by them, and even when some are informed of what it really means, they will continue on for months afterwards as if they never have been informed, nor do they care about the truth of the matter, but only in clinging to their ignorance and knee jerk reactions. Of course many of them reject the notion that man is in any way depraved, and some will even claim that the natural man is a good guy, even though Jesus said there are none good... and that idea of none being good and man being corrupt is echoed repeatedly throughout Scripture, so obviously there is a problem with their understanding and their theology, but they refuse to see it. And these are all connected ideas... having to do with man's inability to choose rightly in their innate state, of needing their eyes ears and hearts opened first.

Total depravity, from what i know of it, just goes too far for me currently precious friend but my personal thoughts are akin to it. Going to bed soon but will probably post a further reply to your comment soon, still at the very developmental stage in my spiritual thoughts.

Personally think God's judgement is for the fall from Grace/original sin. Think it's so wrong to judge others, we're all naturally depraved and hell bound but for Jesus sacrificing his life for our salvation. I do think God genuinely would love us all to repent and be saved, there are so many scriptures saying so. It seems possible to me He might help some people who feel remorse over things they've done.

Not sure about that at all, i'm an old dear but very young believer. Anyway, will get some kip, hugs and all that's good for now.

 

[GWH]

Bless you, i'm prone to getting overenthusiastic at times, not as uncomfortable as i have been lately, so in danger of going on a chess odyssey.

I love the game and am a very good player, 4 of my games were featured on the site i visited a little while ago. Thing is, i have a distinctive, in the wind style, so people know who i am and can be really spiteful as they don't like being beaten by a woman.

No longer think starting a chess team here would be a good idea.

Oh, I see, sorta. I guess there is a way to play chess on CC. Would you have an onscreen board?

Do you play chess on interactive game sites?

 

[homwardbound]

Philippians 3:3; Colossians 2:11; Romans 2:29b ~ For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh. You were also circumcised, i off of your sinful nature, with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. Circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

again, thank you Magenta to listen from your new heart given you by Father and Son-as Won (One)
And I know and admit, to this day, I am not perfect, nor excuse sin. Yet i see to not harm anyone or be better than anyone else, seeing Daddy’s, PaPa’s, Father's love for all, through Son’s done work, no one is better than anyone. No respect of persons, wow thanking Father to keep me humble seeing his grace is suffiicient

 

[greenonions]

I agree that belief is not a matter of making a moral choice, however, that is just one example of what is said in egregious error by those who hold to their contrary false doctrine. I also agree that being saved, or rather made alive in Christ, comes first, then heart circumcision. This really seems to be the crux of the matter, for some believe it is their choice that makes them alive in Christ and saves them, whereas others believe they come to believe after being made alive in Christ. That is why looking at the multitude of verses regarding the natural man and seeing how he is incapable of producing the fruit of faith with his stony heart and inherently hostile-to-God mind is so important, and these verses in particular are almost always never addressed by the person who believes their will is already free in the natural state man. They have him believing that which he can neither receive not comprehend and hears as foolishness, ascribing to him qualities and characteristics only the spiritual man possesses. Some claim all hear which is obviously erroneous also, for hearing must encompass comprehension, and darkness (which is the natural man) does not comprehend the Light.

I don't think belief is a moral choice either. Therefore, I don't think the fact that the natural man is hostile to God (and total depravity) absolutely prevents someone from believing. If a convicted criminal is offered a pardon with some condition, I don't think accepting the pardon means the criminal is morally good for doing so.

I think some people don't believe because "not all men have faith". (2 Thess 3:2)

I think people's free will is limited. That is why we pray that God would save people, because He can change their hearts.