Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
You know I agree in part with this post...but heresy and error are still a debatable issue in the Christian World... Now if you claim to know heresy and would limit others ability to debate the truth of scripture ? I would like for you to define it as the bible defines it, and see if you really understand the term?
P
Would someone please give me a chapter and verse breakdown of where this comes from?
The fifteen promises of Mary to Christians who recite the rosary:
1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.
2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against Hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God and become worthy of eternal life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death, they shall participate in the merits of the saints in Paradise.
9. I shall deliver from Purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.
14. All who recite the Rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
The fifteen promises of Mary to Christians who recite the rosary:
1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.
2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against Hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God and become worthy of eternal life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death, they shall participate in the merits of the saints in Paradise.
9. I shall deliver from Purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.
14. All who recite the Rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.
P
QUESTION :
Do Catholics believe this:
Once it is admitted that Christ left the Church the power to forgive sins (see PENANCE), the power of granting indulgences is logically inferred. Since the sacramental forgiveness of sin extends both to the guilt and to the eternal punishment, it plainly follows that the Church can also free the penitent from the lesser or temporal penalty. This becomes clearer, however, when we consider the amplitude of the power granted to Peter (Matthew 16:19): "I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." (Cf. Matthew 18:18, where like power is conferred on all the Apostles.) No limit is placed upon this power of loosing, "the power of the keys", as it is called; it must, therefore, extend to any and all bonds contracted by sin, including the penalty no less than the guilt. When the Church, therefore, by an indulgence, remits this penalty, her action, according to the declaration of Christ, is ratified in heaven. That this power, as the Council of Trent affirms, was exercised from the earliest times, is shown by St. Paul's words (2 Corinthians 2:5-10) in which he deals with the case of the incest man of Corinth. The sinner had been excluded by St. Paul's order from the company of the faithful, but had truly repented. Hence the Apostle judges that to such a one "this rebuke is sufficient that is given by many" and adds: "To whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned anything, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ." St. Paul had bound the guilty one in the fetters of excommunication; he now releases the penitent from this punishment by an exercise of his authority — "in the person of Christ." Here we have all the essentials of an indulgence.
Do Catholics believe this:
Once it is admitted that Christ left the Church the power to forgive sins (see PENANCE), the power of granting indulgences is logically inferred. Since the sacramental forgiveness of sin extends both to the guilt and to the eternal punishment, it plainly follows that the Church can also free the penitent from the lesser or temporal penalty. This becomes clearer, however, when we consider the amplitude of the power granted to Peter (Matthew 16:19): "I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." (Cf. Matthew 18:18, where like power is conferred on all the Apostles.) No limit is placed upon this power of loosing, "the power of the keys", as it is called; it must, therefore, extend to any and all bonds contracted by sin, including the penalty no less than the guilt. When the Church, therefore, by an indulgence, remits this penalty, her action, according to the declaration of Christ, is ratified in heaven. That this power, as the Council of Trent affirms, was exercised from the earliest times, is shown by St. Paul's words (2 Corinthians 2:5-10) in which he deals with the case of the incest man of Corinth. The sinner had been excluded by St. Paul's order from the company of the faithful, but had truly repented. Hence the Apostle judges that to such a one "this rebuke is sufficient that is given by many" and adds: "To whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned anything, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ." St. Paul had bound the guilty one in the fetters of excommunication; he now releases the penitent from this punishment by an exercise of his authority — "in the person of Christ." Here we have all the essentials of an indulgence.
the heresy of indulgences and mary worship and the mass and confessional is all clearly spelled out by charles chiniquoy in the free online pdf format "50 years in the church of rome" which he wrote after the rcc excommunicated him for not bowing down to the pope (charles would only serve Jesus). charles went back to his congregation (he had been a long time respected priest in that heretical rcc) in illinois or there about and told them the pope had kicked him out so he was leaving. EVERY ONE IN HIS CONGREGATION LEFT WITH HIM, so everyone there was for a time anyway saved from that abomination.
P
Well if we rise above 'Catholic Bashing' so to speak ..AND IF....we really want delve into a discussion concerning the Catholic Belief , etc this could be interesting. Other wise it will turn into a debate with possibly little to know fruit being produced.
In order to do this we would have to agree that the Word of God and not man is the deciding factor. If that can be done we will all move forward. If it cannot I, myself, will probably eventually simply dust off my feet and wish everyone the best and that the truth will prevail.
In order to do this we would have to agree that the Word of God and not man is the deciding factor. If that can be done we will all move forward. If it cannot I, myself, will probably eventually simply dust off my feet and wish everyone the best and that the truth will prevail.
goodbye.
(the rcc, like the mrmons, islam, jws, and buddhsts, are not "in Jesus". no, no way, according to Scripture.)
re see some of martin luther's writings, all of the reformers after martin luther for a long time,
all of whom recognized the anti-christ nature of the rcc abomination,
and charles chiniquoy "fifty years in the church of rome" expose from the inside of the abomination of the mass and the totally from hasatan confessional, the re-crucification of Jesus Christ in the rcc actions daily, and the total and willing rejection of Jesus by the catholic hierarchy (and the requirement for all its members).
not to forget, the popes recent open arms of all the satanic /demonic worship groups with no requirement to do what the Bible says to do, with no repentance, with no remorse...... nothing good at all in the rcc.
(the rcc, like the mrmons, islam, jws, and buddhsts, are not "in Jesus". no, no way, according to Scripture.)
re see some of martin luther's writings, all of the reformers after martin luther for a long time,
all of whom recognized the anti-christ nature of the rcc abomination,
and charles chiniquoy "fifty years in the church of rome" expose from the inside of the abomination of the mass and the totally from hasatan confessional, the re-crucification of Jesus Christ in the rcc actions daily, and the total and willing rejection of Jesus by the catholic hierarchy (and the requirement for all its members).
not to forget, the popes recent open arms of all the satanic /demonic worship groups with no requirement to do what the Bible says to do, with no repentance, with no remorse...... nothing good at all in the rcc.
In the light of the bible there is no rational defense of Romes doctrines. Therefore the discussions quickly degrade into accusations and recriminations. Until and unless both parties agree to allow the bible to be the final arbiter of the discussion there can never be agreement. Civil discussion is often sought and fleeting in its duration.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
P
This has been attempted with less than desired results. I'm always interested in what the bible teaches on any given subject. My experience is that Roman Catholics teach the bible from the perspective of their church writings and traditions and not directly from the scriptures themselves. When we talk bible with them they see the passages according to Catholic tradition and not strictly from the text.
Example Christ gave Peter the keys to bind or loose sins. This is how Rome sees indulgences. Priestly authority to forgive sins which is flatly rejected by Protestantism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Example Christ gave Peter the keys to bind or loose sins. This is how Rome sees indulgences. Priestly authority to forgive sins which is flatly rejected by Protestantism.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
.......
but to keep it simple, ask yourself one question: all of the disciples of Jesus everywhere, when given the choice to obey God or man, Jesus or someone else, they obey God, they obey Jesus.
NOT ONE of the catholics I've ever asked or seen asked in the last 40 years , except charismatic catholics who then were kicked out of the rcc, said that they would obey Jesus, nor that they would obey God, instead of the pope. every one of them, totally ignoring Scripture, said they would do what the pope said/says/ instead of what Jesus said/says when they are diametrically opposed to each other. (i.e.when there is not a chance to obey both Jesus and man/pope at the same time; either obey one, and hate the other, or obey the other, and hate the one).
both martin luther and charles chiniquoy, and many thousands others, might have remained in the catholic church IF they would have been allowed to obey only Jesus, and to remain subject to Jesus, and not to the pope or his demands...... so many demands of the pope, and of the catholic catechism, are directly contramanded by God's Word/ Scripture.
forget all the traditions of men. go directly to God and His Word. otherwise, there is no life.
but to keep it simple, ask yourself one question: all of the disciples of Jesus everywhere, when given the choice to obey God or man, Jesus or someone else, they obey God, they obey Jesus.
NOT ONE of the catholics I've ever asked or seen asked in the last 40 years , except charismatic catholics who then were kicked out of the rcc, said that they would obey Jesus, nor that they would obey God, instead of the pope. every one of them, totally ignoring Scripture, said they would do what the pope said/says/ instead of what Jesus said/says when they are diametrically opposed to each other. (i.e.when there is not a chance to obey both Jesus and man/pope at the same time; either obey one, and hate the other, or obey the other, and hate the one).
both martin luther and charles chiniquoy, and many thousands others, might have remained in the catholic church IF they would have been allowed to obey only Jesus, and to remain subject to Jesus, and not to the pope or his demands...... so many demands of the pope, and of the catholic catechism, are directly contramanded by God's Word/ Scripture.
forget all the traditions of men. go directly to God and His Word. otherwise, there is no life.
Well is it reasonable to read into the scripture that Christ gave to Peter special keys with which Peter could bind or loose the sins of those he encountered? If I recall the Lord was called out for saying that your sins are forgive when He healed a man. The reason being that only God can forgive sin.
It seems more reasonable that we should read out of the scriptures that Christ told Peter that the scriptures are the keys by which men could have forgiveness of their sins or if they rejected the scriptures their sin would be forever bound to them. This is on the same line of reasoning as petra and petros, stone and rock again involving Peter.
Do we read into scripture what we want to hear or do we read out of scripture what God has spoken?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It seems more reasonable that we should read out of the scriptures that Christ told Peter that the scriptures are the keys by which men could have forgiveness of their sins or if they rejected the scriptures their sin would be forever bound to them. This is on the same line of reasoning as petra and petros, stone and rock again involving Peter.
Do we read into scripture what we want to hear or do we read out of scripture what God has spoken?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
So you believe in this tradition brother? NO body have the right to force you not to believe it but would you give us the reason you believe it?
Would someone please give me a chapter and verse breakdown of where this comes from?
The fifteen promises of Mary to Christians who recite the rosary:
1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.
2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against Hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God and become worthy of eternal life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death, they shall participate in the merits of the
should be another thread really: but: you DO know, don't you? that Yahshua(Jesus) DOES HAVE THE POWER TO FORGIVE SINS? ABBA turned everything over to Him in and for JUDGMENT as well.
and a whole 'nother site to deal with the need and the wonderful effects ABBA and Yahshua works as we forgive one another !
and a whole 'nother site to deal with the need and the wonderful effects ABBA and Yahshua works as we forgive one another !