Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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Halo Catholic christian, I am christian, The old testament said not to worship statue.
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
Halo Catholic christian, I am christian, The old testament said not to worship statue.
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
Note that the Ark is where GOD HIMSELF meets with His people. It is His throne of judgment and mercy. It is the evidence of His covenant between Himself and His people. It is a type of the heavenly throne of YHWH seated among the Cherubim. It CENTRES on YHWH Himself Who is represented as seated invisibly upon it.
There are no GENUINE parallels. NOWHERE in Scripture is there even a hint that Mary is connected with the Ark of the Covenant. It is typical Roman Catholic misrepresentation.
1) The Ark of the Covenant contained 'TEN words' of God as PART of the covenant. It contained them permanently as evidence of the certainty of the covenant. It was the symbol of the covenant, and over it was GOD's throne.
To suggest that Mary can be compared with it because briefly she had within her God's Messiah is the height of folly. He was not within her permanently. Nor did she in any way represent Him. He was not within her as 'The Word'. He was within her as the baby Jesus. She was neither the throne of His presence, nor was she evidence of the covenant. The comparison is purely meaningless.
The Ark PERMANENTLY contained the manna and Aaron's rod, and was representative of the holy presence of GOD. It was revealed as the symbol of the PERMANENT presence of God's holiness.
There is no reason for seeing the temporary presence within Mary of the baby Jesus any indication that she symbolised anything. Jesus was not the bread of Heaven, or the great high priest, while He was in the womb of Mary. It was as the Messiah that He was revealed as the bread of Heaven, long after He had left Mary's womb, and even after he had repudiated her (Mark 3.31-35). It was not until His death and resurrection that He was portrayed as the Great High Priest. Mary had been left far behind.
Many people were overshadowed by the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. How can any sensible person compare her temporary overshadowing with the PERMANENT overshadowing of the Ark by God?.
There is absolutely no indication anywhere in Scripture that Mary was 'made perfect'. That is pure fantasy. Indeed she called on GOD as her 'Saviour'. Only a sinful person needs a Saviour. Jesus did not see her as perfect when she tried to interfere with His ministry. He repudiated her (Mark 3.31-35). There is not even a hint that she was sinless. Indeed it is made clear that she was a sinner. For example she neglected her son when she had taken him to Jerusalem and then left him behind through carelessness. In the UK today she would have been investigated to see if she was a fit mother for a young teenager. Her action would have been seen as damning. And as we have already said Jesus had to repudiate her when she tried to interfere with His ministry. There is no POSITIVE reference to Mary's morality in the whole New Testament.
As to parallels. There are no parallels to Mary in the New Testament . She is totally lost to sight.
We know that Mary was a sinner. She failed her son when she left him behind in Jerusalem (Luke 2.41-52). SHE EVEN TRIED TO PUT THE BLAME ON JESUS. She failed again when she tried to interfere with His ministry. (Mark 3.21, 31-35).
As to the use of the common word chaire which simply means 'rejoice', it was used by Jesus when greeting His disciples in Matthew 28.9. Were they royalty? It was a general recognised greeting. (Typical Roman Catholic misrepresentation)
No it strictly means 'engraced, highly favoured'. It is used of ALL Christians in Ephesians 1.6. The point was that God had revealed His grace towards them. In the same way He had shown His grace towards Mary. Grace is UNMERITED favour and love. Mary merited nothing. What happened to her was of God's unmerited love and favour.
LOL Roman Catholic Greek. Charitoo does not mean to endow with or fill with grace. It means to highly favour. Mary was 'the highly favoured one' because she had been chosen to bear the Messiah. The word says nothing about her intrinsic merit (see Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich lexicon).
It does NOT mean to fill with grace. It means to 'highly favour'. It is used of all Christians in Eph 1.6. Nor does the tense mean that she had been 'highly favoured, engraced' from birth. It indicated that at some stage God had chosen her and was now highly favouring her. It says NOTHING about her intrinsic moral state. That is all fantasy. Indeed the New Testament, as we have seen, reveals her as a sinner in need of a Saviour.
Yes he is saying that she was 'highly favoured'. The SAME VERB is used of all Christians in Ephesians 1.6 (echaritosen). It simply means that God had acted towards her (and them) in unmerited favour.
The following are a few parallels between the Ark and Mary:
[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
with this argument, after Jesus born, Mary is not ark covenant anymore.
[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TD]
The Ark of the Old Covenant
[/TD][TD]
Mary
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Contained the written word of God(Deuteronomy 10:5)
[/TD][TD]
Contained the Word of God made flesh, Jesus (John 1:1)
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Contained the manna from the desert(Hebrews 9:4)
[/TD][TD]
Contained the manna from Heaven, Jesus(John 6:48-51)
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Contained the rod of Aaron, a sign of priesthood(Hebrews 9:4)
[/TD][TD]
Contained Jesus Christ, the Eternal High Priest(Hebrews 4:14)
[/TD][/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Was “overshadowed” by the power and presence of God (Exodus 40:34-35)
[/TD][TD]
Was “overshadowed” by the power and presence of the Most High (Luke 1:35)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
with this argument, after Jesus born, Mary is not ark covenant anymore.
Originally Posted by valiant
Note that the Ark is where GOD HIMSELF meets with His people. It is His throne of judgment and mercy. It is the evidence of His covenant between Himself and His people. It is a type of the heavenly throne of YHWH seated among the Cherubim. It CENTRES on YHWH Himself Who is represented as seated invisibly upon it.[/FONT][/COLOR]
There are no GENUINE parallels. NOWHERE in Scripture is there even a hint that Mary is connected with the Ark of the Covenant. It is typical Roman Catholic misrepresentation.
1) The Ark of the Covenant contained 'TEN words' of God as PART of the covenant. It contained them permanently as evidence of the certainty of the covenant. It was the symbol of the covenant, and over it was GOD's throne.
To suggest that Mary can be compared with it because briefly she had within her God's Messiah is the height of folly. He was not within her permanently. Nor did she in any way represent Him. He was not within her as 'The Word'. He was within her as the baby Jesus. She was neither the throne of His presence, nor was she evidence of the covenant. The comparison is purely meaningless.
The Ark PERMANENTLY contained the manna and Aaron's rod, and was representative of the holy presence of GOD. It was revealed as the symbol of the PERMANENT presence of God's holiness.
There is no reason for seeing the temporary presence within Mary of the baby Jesus any indication that she symbolised anything. Jesus was not the bread of Heaven, or the great high priest, while He was in the womb of Mary. It was as the Messiah that He was revealed as the bread of Heaven, long after He had left Mary's womb, and even after he had repudiated her (Mark 3.31-35). It was not until His death and resurrection that He was portrayed as the Great High Priest. Mary had been left far behind.
Many people were overshadowed by the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. How can any sensible person compare her temporary overshadowing with the PERMANENT overshadowing of the Ark by God?.
[/B]
There is absolutely no indication anywhere in Scripture that Mary was 'made perfect'. That is pure fantasy. Indeed she called on GOD as her 'Saviour'. Only a sinful person needs a Saviour. Jesus did not see her as perfect when she tried to interfere with His ministry. He repudiated her (Mark 3.31-35). There is not even a hint that she was sinless. Indeed it is made clear that she was a sinner. For example she neglected her son when she had taken him to Jerusalem and then left him behind through carelessness. In the UK today she would have been investigated to see if she was a fit mother for a young teenager. Her action would have been seen as damning. And as we have already said Jesus had to repudiate her when she tried to interfere with His ministry. There is no POSITIVE reference to Mary's morality in the whole New Testament.
As to parallels. There are no parallels to Mary in the New Testament . She is totally lost to sight.
There are no GENUINE parallels. NOWHERE in Scripture is there even a hint that Mary is connected with the Ark of the Covenant. It is typical Roman Catholic misrepresentation.
1) The Ark of the Covenant contained 'TEN words' of God as PART of the covenant. It contained them permanently as evidence of the certainty of the covenant. It was the symbol of the covenant, and over it was GOD's throne.
To suggest that Mary can be compared with it because briefly she had within her God's Messiah is the height of folly. He was not within her permanently. Nor did she in any way represent Him. He was not within her as 'The Word'. He was within her as the baby Jesus. She was neither the throne of His presence, nor was she evidence of the covenant. The comparison is purely meaningless.
The Ark PERMANENTLY contained the manna and Aaron's rod, and was representative of the holy presence of GOD. It was revealed as the symbol of the PERMANENT presence of God's holiness.
There is no reason for seeing the temporary presence within Mary of the baby Jesus any indication that she symbolised anything. Jesus was not the bread of Heaven, or the great high priest, while He was in the womb of Mary. It was as the Messiah that He was revealed as the bread of Heaven, long after He had left Mary's womb, and even after he had repudiated her (Mark 3.31-35). It was not until His death and resurrection that He was portrayed as the Great High Priest. Mary had been left far behind.
Many people were overshadowed by the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. How can any sensible person compare her temporary overshadowing with the PERMANENT overshadowing of the Ark by God?.
[/B]
There is absolutely no indication anywhere in Scripture that Mary was 'made perfect'. That is pure fantasy. Indeed she called on GOD as her 'Saviour'. Only a sinful person needs a Saviour. Jesus did not see her as perfect when she tried to interfere with His ministry. He repudiated her (Mark 3.31-35). There is not even a hint that she was sinless. Indeed it is made clear that she was a sinner. For example she neglected her son when she had taken him to Jerusalem and then left him behind through carelessness. In the UK today she would have been investigated to see if she was a fit mother for a young teenager. Her action would have been seen as damning. And as we have already said Jesus had to repudiate her when she tried to interfere with His ministry. There is no POSITIVE reference to Mary's morality in the whole New Testament.
As to parallels. There are no parallels to Mary in the New Testament . She is totally lost to sight.
Did I say that JOHN did not refer to Jesus as the Word? TO SUGGEST THAT I DID IS A BLATANT LIE. You Roman Catholics will suggest anything in order to perpetrate your unscriptural teaching. You have no conscience. Jesus was eternally the Word. In other words He was the full expression of all that God was and is. But He is never connected with Mary as the Word. In connection with her He is called 'the seed of David'. To parallel His being born through her with two stone tablets containing the covenant permanently placed in the Ark is absurd. (Typical Roman Catholic absurdity)
Originally Posted by Jackson123
Halo Catholic christian, I am christian, The old testament said not to worship statue.
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
Halo Catholic christian, I am christian, The old testament said not to worship statue.
Exodus 20:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[SUP]5[/SUP] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[SUP]6[/SUP] And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
To me this pope look like bow before the graven image, exactly oppose these verses
We don't worship statues
If you don't worship statues than what is this guy in the photo doing?
Bible prohibit to bow in front of the statue, don't you read the verse?
simple, bow in front of the statue is prohibit.
And Pope bow in front of the statue, if catholic say Pope not violate the bible, than it mean lie and catholic if full of lie. they do it openly, straight out lie.
Catholic say this is not bow before the statue/ straight lie
I say this is not picture of a car.
how lie am I. and I not aware that I am liar.
460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature":"For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."
After some discussion, apparently, Catholic believe that what ccc 460 mean by we might become God is after the second coming.
What I am remember is the verse they rely on said we going to reign with God.
That for ordinary Catholic, how about Mary?
If ordinary Catholic become God after second coming, is Mary have to wait?
Seem to me for they believe for Mary is different. Mary is reign with God now. so base on the argument that reign with God mean become God than she is God now, because catholic believe Mary is reign with God now.