Catholic Heresy (for the record)

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Dec 14, 2009
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So, JuameJ, are you so perfect in God as to know that I am only following the ways of man?

Similarly, is anyone here so perfect in God as to know that every Catholic is a heretic, a fraud and a liar?

And if so, by what magic grace do you come by these conclusions? And by what definition of love do you exclude these people?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Are you afraid to have a mind of your own though? To interpret things in a way that might realise the truth of God isn't in reciting his scripture robotically and trying to one up someone. It's in realising the great freedom of mind that comes with believing in Jesus.

Jesus had a mind of his own. Set apart from rigidity and strict, law focused teaching. Jesus had a truly free mind. He was clean. Pure. Holy. And not because he prayed fifty times a day or recited scripture boringly. He taught in this fantastic, passionate and beautiful way that transcended religion itself and brought faith to something more. He taught value over ritual.

He wants us to become all things because if we become all things we can understand every view, every line. When someone has a different perspective, we can understand it. We can see their thinking. And we can understand, we are not all so different.

The unbeliever is not so different to me. We are all one. We all came from one. We all have capacity to sin. We all have desire for love. We all have fear, doubt, anxiety, pressure, anger, jealousy. We all have flaws and ridding ourselves of these flaws is first and foremost what we should subject ourselves to.

Subjecting others to throwing scripture at them, is also subjecting them to the backhanded judgement that comes with it. The Pharisees assumed that everything they did was correct and in truth and that anyone who did any different was a heretic. Jesus came and shattered that view.


I love Yahvah God ways and Yahshua the Messiah taught them fantastically indeed.

I've taught nothing by my own accord for my own benefit, never.

Releasing the Truth is sharing what is written and understood by the Holy Spirit.




I shared a teaching of Yahshua the Messiah with you earlier and you said you interpreted it different, yet Yahshua the Messiah clearly stated the First and second.....
So the only view shattered was your own..

Why be offended by this?

I only share and relay the Message of his Teachings....

Will you in your own ignorance teach different to what he spoke? and consider anyone relaying his teaching to you as trying to get one up on you?

I do not exalt myself, but exalt Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah... Not using scripture would be foolish of me.. .Iv'e nothing to say that could better anything written......
 
Jan 15, 2011
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We do everything by ourselves. That is what free will is, my friend. We have a choice always. And always our choice is determined by our minds and hearts. The belief in Jesus' words are a way of life that we try to follow. But ultimately, the choice is in our hands.

The incident in the olive tree refers to Jesus ability to accept hostility for what it is.

Listen to this.

If a stranger comes and spits in your face, it does not necessarily say something about you. It says more about them. They spit in your face, because they have heard something about you. They have taken hear say to heart and made up their mind about you before they have even gotten to know you at all. Therefore, they spit on their own mind. On their own views. So why do you let it even touch you? They spit on an idea of you, not on who you are. Their idea of you, and who you are are two different things. So when the administrators spit in the face of Catholics here, they spit on an idea of something. An idea of people that they know absolutely nothing about.

If you have read this thread from the very beginning, the administrators do have a very good understanding about Roman Catholicism.
As Christians, we must stand against deception and falsehood being taught to born again believers. There are dire warnings to false teachers as well as those who are overcome by false teachers.

Following Jesus is not ecumenical. Jesus did not come to bring peace but a sword. To divide the world between those who believe in Him fully, and those that do not. Following and becoming a disciple of Christ is not an easy road to travel, hence the exhortation to count the costs before beginning the journey. Sadly this is not really taught in the church these days but is scriptural nevertheless. So when we as Christians speak the truth, or in the sense of a forum post the truth, the truth of God we know will be divisive. The truth is very uncomfortable for those who are in the world or have a worldly mind. Following Christ is uncomfortable. When we walk in Him, the world berates us and does not understand why we do the things we do. The world hated Christ and they will hate us. No, our walk is never promised to be easy or "sunshine and rainbows." We have an expectation of difficulties, trials, persecutions, etc from which our perseverance and enduring through our faith in Him will lead to greater spiritual growth and development.

As Christians, we do absolutely nothing by ourselves when it comes to spiritual matters. Yes we make choices every day, but those choices need to be grounded and rooted in the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the bible itself. We know that the bible says the heart is wicked and deceitful above all things. Only God can truly know our hearts and that is why He searches the "hidden" man. Our minds are bombarded with ungodly things in the world around us. That is why we are exhorted to take all thoughts into captivity and subject them to Christ. When it comes to what God does, we have to understand that by our own power, nothing matters. What matters is if we are truly following God and allowing Him to work in us. Our fleshly bodies and fleshly mind for the most part are contrary to what God wants us to do. This is why Paul was telling us to put on the new man and walk in the light of Christ. When we walk by our flesh or the dictates of the world, we are essentially walking away from God and denying Him. We must avoid this focus of self and seek to be pleasing to God.

The gate is narrow, not broad. The road is narrow, not broad. To follow Him on that narrow road, we must put away our preconceived notions of what is right as we know in the world, and instead follow what is right according to God.
 
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Jun 24, 2010
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It gives me great joy seeing the Commandments here as a reminder to those who believe YHWH to observe what He teaches. Some balk at seeing them, but I ask myself, "Why." Certainly they are not too complicated to understand, and certainly they are each a joy to obey. So why do some balk at these commandments? Under grace we have no problem obeying them since it comes natural within the limitless parameters of YHWH's gift of Love. It never ceases to bewilder me how many believe it is wrong to teach them. All blessing from Yahweh my sister, amen..............
You and loveme1 have this mutual admiration for one another and it's based upon Yeshua in relationship to the commandments and not as the head of the church and body of Christ. Outside the commandments He doesn't mean that much to you and you don't follow His precepts in the church and body of Christ as being the fulness of God.

I could quote (Eph 1:22,23) ...

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

and also quote (Eph 3:14-21)...

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

along with (Eph 4:10-13)...

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

putting it alongside (Col 1:18-20, & 2:9)...

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

2:9 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

...and you would still not understand the eternal purpose of the church and body of Christ which is the fulness of God, the place where we comprehend the love of God with the saints and is the pillar of the truth in (1Tim 3:15)...

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

All of these Scriptures are in your Bible and were put there by the Holy Spirit for our learning and for our instruction, but you want to esteem those (10) commandments even above the fulness of Christ which is in His body the church, who Christ is the head. Your suppose to have the Spirit dwelling in you and you don't understand these things? You can't separate Christ, the head of the church, from His body and you can't know or grow in grace and knowledge of Christ (2Pt 3:18) Christ outside His body, the church, because YESHUA is in the body functioning as the head and we are hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3) and in that body that makes up the fulness of God (Col 2:9). Hasn't the Spirit revealed that to you yet?

I learned it and grew up as a believer in the midst of it, fellowshipping in the Spirit with others in the body of Christ right after I got saved by grace at (19) years of age. God put me in the midst of His body in a local church right away with a pastor-teacher that loved God's people, God's promises, he was a soul winner because he believed that's why Christ came in (Lk 19:10), layed his life down for the brethren, never thought evil of anyone, preaching and teaching the word and doctrine, counseling 1,000s of people from all walks of life, daily breaking bread and teaching, teaching, teaching, teaching, and teaching morning, noon and night, again and again and again, week after week, month after month, year after year, training up disciples and sending them into all the world to preach the gospel and do the same thing in those countries.

Presently there is over 400 churches in some (80) countries because a pastor and a group of believers that God raised up dared to pray, to preach the gospel and believed God that His fulness was in the body and God increased them 100 fold and then some on top of that, and it did not come because of the flesh or without sufferings, trials, testings and persecutions, but none of that compared to the glory of God's grace that was revealed in the midst of the body. The only ones that could really see what God was doing in the midst of His body were those that walked by faith and were filled with the love of Christ through the Spirit. If you walked by sight you could easily make an assessment in the flesh and never give glory to God, and many took that route and were never baptized in one body through one Spirit and their love waxed cold.

BTW - If anyone doesn't like it when believers quote verses or make reference to them then they have a problem with insecurity.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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So, JuameJ, are you so perfect in God as to know that I am only following the ways of man?

Similarly, is anyone here so perfect in God as to know that every Catholic is a heretic, a fraud and a liar?

And if so, by what magic grace do you come by these conclusions? And by what definition of love do you exclude these people?
Do you have many bruises from all of this jumping to conclusions? You do not know the beginning of what I believe, let alone about individuals. I have not been witnessed defending any one theology, however you will always hear the Word from me. Love has nothing to do with turning one's back on YHWH in order to please people. Have you not yet learned as it is taught, better to be a fool in the sight of man for the sake of YHWH than to be a fool in the sight of YHWH for the sake of man? Love is not always a piece of cake, it is not always being popular, if it were, our blessed Savior would never have been crucified. Standing in the Light of Love people are persecuted for its sake by the vast majority who have (past tense) chosen evil. The history of Belfast should demonstrate to you just how wicked all religions are! Have you learned nothing from your own surroundings? Were you in the Light of YHWH the fruit of your doing would make it self evident. Now I ask that you re-examine your thinking. Are you worshipping what proceeds from your own ideas and manifestations of thought system, or are you looking to YHWH for all of your answers. Posting to me or to others here will do you no good whatsoever if you have not given your entire self to YHWH for His pardon and approval. Do you know you are a sinner, as are we all, and we fall short of the glory that is YHWH? I know I am a sinner, and I know the difference in me is yielding to all of what YHWH teaches in Torah (Torah means teaching.) You never have to be in agreement with anyone person, but if you are not following Yeshua and His teachings, you are simply very noisy.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Value, and the human being themselves, to be welcomed, matters more than the dispute of ritual.

I truly do believe in unconditional love. And I'm not afraid to hear someone with different views. It don't fear being corrupted because who can corrupt when I have already prepared myself to welcome someone elses practice. I'm not afraid of adversity. I'm not afraid of controversy either. I'm certainly not afraid that a Catholic might somehow lead me down the path to Hell. I have no reason to exclude them because I'm sure in my own mind that to welcome them (even though they may believe something contradictory to me), is more important than judging them for what they practice.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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You and loveme1 have this mutual admiration for one another and it's based upon Yeshua in relationship to the commandments and not as the head of the church and body of Christ. Outside the commandments He doesn't mean that much to you and you don't follow His precepts in the church and body of Christ as being the fulness of God.

I could quote (Eph 1:22,23) ...

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

and also quote (Eph 3:14-21)...

14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

along with (Eph 4:10-13)...

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

putting it alongside (Col 1:18-20, & 2:9)...

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

2:9 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

...and you would still not understand the eternal purpose of the church and body of Christ which is the fulness of God, the place where we comprehend the love of God with the saints and is the pillar of the truth in (1Tim 3:15)...

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

All of these Scriptures are in your Bible and were put there by the Holy Spirit for our learning and for our instruction, but you want to esteem those (10) commandments even above the fulness of Christ which is in His body the church, who Christ is the head. Your suppose to have the Spirit dwelling in you and you don't understand these things? You can't separate Christ, the head of the church, from His body and you can't know or grow in grace and knowledge of Christ (2Pt 3:18) Christ outside His body, the church, because YESHUA is in the body functioning as the head and we are hid with Christ in God (Col 3:3) and in that body that makes up the fulness of God (Col 2:9). Hasn't the Spirit revealed that to you yet?

I learned it and grew up as a believer in the midst of it, fellowshipping in the Spirit with others in the body of Christ right after I got saved by grace at (19) years of age. God put me in the midst of His body in a local church right away with a pastor-teacher that loved God's people, God's promises, he was a soul winner because he believed that's why Christ came in (Lk 19:10), layed his life down for the brethren, never thought evil of anyone, preaching and teaching the word and doctrine, counseling 1,000s of people from all walks of life, daily breaking bread and teaching, teaching, teaching, teaching, and teaching morning, noon and night, again and again and again, week after week, month after month, year after year, training up disciples and sending them into all the world to preach the gospel and do the same thing in those countries.

Presently there is over 400 churches in some (80) countries because a pastor and a group of believers that God raised up dared to pray, to preach the gospel and believed God that His fulness was in the body and God increased them 100 fold and then some on top of that, and it did not come because of the flesh or without sufferings, trials, testings and persecutions, but none of that compared to the glory of God's grace that was revealed in the midst of the body. The only ones that could really see what God was doing in the midst of His body were those that walked by faith and were filled with the love of Christ through the Spirit. If you walked by sight you could easily make an assessment in the flesh and never give glory to God, and many took that route and were never baptized in one body through one Spirit and their love waxed cold.

BTW - If anyone doesn't like it when believers quote verses or make reference to them then they have a problem with insecurity.

This is sad indeed. How many times must I inform you that I, and all who truly love Yeshua, live under grace? It is a joy to obey the Ten Commandments, and if one believes them to be a burden, grace is of no avail to that person. Jesus teaches anyone who teaches against the least of the commandments will be least in the Kingdom. So you are saying if a person is under grace it is just fine to go against any of the great Ten? Read the goodness of those commandments to yourself again, and then tell me grace will not afford the will and the joy to obey them......
 
Dec 14, 2009
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This is taking a turn into digression. The issue is simple, do you think Catholics should be allowed on this site to explore their own faith and make friends?

It's a simple matter.

If you would rather exclude them and shun them, that's blatantly wrong.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,090
191
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You and loveme1 have this mutual admiration for one another and it's based upon Yeshua in relationship to the commandments and not as the head of the church and body of Christ. Outside the commandments He doesn't mean that much to you and you don't follow His precepts in the church and body of Christ as being the fulness of God.

Mutual admiration for Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah indeed, and i believe there are others among us with the same admiration.


You have not the ability to know our hearts and the more i read your posts the more confused you seem...

You have your own unique idea of the Truth and will go to great lengths to prove to "yourself" you are not in error.... even accepting the abominable worship of Mary by a catholic person over people who out of love for their Salvation obey the 10 commandments of Yahvah God.... I wll relay the verse you usually ignore.

12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
Similarly, is anyone here so perfect in God as to know that every Catholic is a heretic, a fraud and a liar?

And if so, by what magic grace do you come by these conclusions? And by what definition of love do you exclude these people?
Mediate, please try to understand that there is a huge difference between condemning the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and condemning the people who belong to it. (! ! !)

The deceived have a place in Christ's heart, and so they do in the hearts of His bride.
Just as Jesus taught Truth to those who would hear, so we hope to teach the Truth of the Word, not to glorify ourselves, or to preach death, but in hopes of bringing Life. :) We don't at all wish to exclude them, but to include them. I hope you can see this.

Of course we love our Catholic friends. Because God does, and His love is shed abroad in our hearts. Any who post harsh, personal words are contrary to Jesus, and we forgive them, and pray God will reprove them. NOT because we are better (God forbid!), but because the One who lives in us is. It's not against Love to speak the Truth of the Word in a respectful manner.
~ellie
 
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psychomom

Guest
This is taking a turn into digression. The issue is simple, do you think Catholics should be allowed on this site to explore their own faith and make friends?

It's a simple matter.

If you would rather exclude them and shun them, that's blatantly wrong.
The mere fact that the owner of the site doesn't "ban" Catholics should speak for itself. :)

AND...any member of the RCC who is unhappy with the site if free to not visit it, or to start their own site, maybe just for their Catholic brethren?
But they are here, and for that I am truly from the bottom of my heart, thankful. Look how courteously that young Catholic man responded to my questions. That blessed me. :)
 
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Dec 14, 2009
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Only bans them from having an opinion, or to be respected same as 'real' believers of course.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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This is sad indeed. How many times must I inform you that I, and all who truly love Yeshua, live under grace? It is a joy to obey the Ten Commandments, and if one believes them to be a burden, grace is of no avail to that person. Jesus teaches anyone who teaches against the least of the commandments will be least in the Kingdom. So you are saying if a person is under grace it is just fine to go against any of the great Ten? Read the goodness of those commandments to yourself again, and then tell me grace will not afford the will and the joy to obey them......
Such a thing as you suppose has never come from my lips. You have such an esteem and orientation for these (10) commandments that it has blinded you from the fulness of God which is in His body, the church. The scriptures are right there in front of you, communicating the truth and mind of the Spirit, but you are blinded and as a result have no faith concerning God's fulness. If you really want to know where God reveals His grace, it is in His body where His fulness dwells and it is where we grow in grace and knowledge of Him. You don't even have it in you to grasp what is being said in those precious scriptures that reveal Yeshua's fulness. Perhaps you still have partial blindness and a partial veil over your heart, if you do, then you need to turn to the Lord ALL THE WAY and that includes His body and not just the head, then the Spirit will be able to reveal to your heart the fulness of God's eternal purpose for His body, the church and you will be baptized experientially in that one body (1Cor 12:12,13)...

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,280
6,565
113
This is taking a turn into digression. The issue is simple, do you think Catholics should be allowed on this site to explore their own faith and make friends?

It's a simple matter.

If you would rather exclude them and shun them, that's blatantly wrong.
Not pretending to speak for you or for others, when a notification comes to my email server, I respond to the post forwarded to me. Unhappily all of the threads have a life of their own, there is no escaping this reality. Thus we are only able to respond to the post brought to our attention. It is certain you have heard or seen how a rumor being circulated will do the same................
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,280
6,565
113
Such a thing as you suppose has never come from my lips. You have such an esteem and orientation for these (10) commandments that it has blinded you from the fulness of God which is in His body, the church. The scriptures are right there in front of you, communicating the truth and mind of the Spirit, but you are blinded and as a result have no faith concerning God's fulness. If you really want to know where God reveals His grace, it is in His body where His fulness dwells and it is where we grow in grace and knowledge of Him. You don't even have it in you to grasp what is being said in those precious scriptures that reveal Yeshua's fulness. Perhaps you still have partial blindness and a partial veil over your heart, if you do, then you need to turn to the Lord ALL THE WAY and that includes His body and not just the head, then the Spirit will be able to reveal to your heart the fulness of God's eternal purpose for His body, the church and you will be baptized experientially in that one body (1Cor 12:12,13)...

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Allow me to expound on the subject of blindness. When I lost the vision in one eye, I thanked Yeshua because I always have Him, and I offered the other eye if it were His will, confessing at the same time that I would really love to keep it. It too went away, however it returned because He gave it back to me. While my vision was away, I learned to see far better without it. There is nothing important in this age because it all passes. No one has ever died from good health. It was easy for me to yield to His will about my vision because it is simply a manifestation of growing old and being closer to peaceful sleep, unless of course Yeshua returns before that sleep. Now you say I am blind and you see. This too has occurred in the Word. It is better to be blind in the eyes than to deny the will of our blessed Father. You must obey YHWH even if you live in grace, otherwise you are disobedient, and this is constantly shown as being akin to idolatry. As for that veil, since the moment YHWH gave me some spiritual reason I have seen Yeshua from Genesis through the final Amen of Revelation, and this is far from what you are trying to teach others. May YHWH open your eyes now, amen.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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Mutual admiration for Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah indeed, and i believe there are others among us with the same admiration.


You have not the ability to know our hearts and the more i read your posts the more confused you seem...

You have your own unique idea of the Truth and will go to great lengths to prove to "yourself" you are not in error.... even accepting the abominable worship of Mary by a catholic person over people who out of love for their Salvation obey the 10 commandments of Yahvah God.... I wll relay the verse you usually ignore.




Glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

This is what you just said... 'even accepting the abominable worship of Mary by a catholic person over people who out of love for their Salvation obey the 10 commandments of Yahvah God'

...and this is what I have said... 'By the same token there are some churches that teach you can lose your salvation and that our Lord's shed blood was spilled for only a few who believe, they should likewise be avoided because these are also blatant heresies and if believer's do not recognize them as such then they have another spirit that did not come our Lord Jesus Christ. I'll take a common catholic that has little doctrine and puts an emphasis on Mary over against these that profess they know Christ and have fellowship in these heresies that do nothing but leaven the doctrine of Christ and bring condemnation into the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ and Him crucified'

Here is a little more clarification just in case you need it. The common catholic that esteems and venerates Mary, I would take over the others that live in the heresies I mentioned, because I believe they would be easier to befriend and more open to the things of God including the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Remember the common (many) people heard Him gladly (Mk 12:37) and not only do I believe this but have been a part of it and have seen it with my own eyes and can give testimony of it, both of the common catholics and those that live in heresy. You can't convince me otherwise because I have seen the grace of God in action transforming those that were open to hear the word of God through our Lord Jesus Christ and it was a great work and it is still ongoing.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,090
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This is what you just said... 'even accepting the abominable worship of Mary by a catholic person over people who out of love for their Salvation obey the 10 commandments of Yahvah God'

...and this is what I have said... 'By the same token there are some churches that teach you can lose your salvation and that our Lord's shed blood was spilled for only a few who believe, they should likewise be avoided because these are also blatant heresies and if believer's do not recognize them as such then they have another spirit that did not come our Lord Jesus Christ. I'll take a common catholic that has little doctrine and puts an emphasis on Mary over against these that profess they know Christ and have fellowship in these heresies that do nothing but leaven the doctrine of Christ and bring condemnation into the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ and Him crucified'

Here is a little more clarification just in case you need it. The common catholic that esteems and venerates Mary, I would take over the others that live in the heresies I mentioned, because I believe they would be easier to befriend and more open to the things of God including the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Remember the common (many) people heard Him gladly (Mk 12:37) and not only do I believe this but have been a part of it and have seen it with my own eyes and can give testimony of it, both of the common catholics and those that live in heresy. You can't convince me otherwise because I have seen the grace of God in action transforming those that were open to hear the word of God through our Lord Jesus Christ and it was a great work and it is still ongoing.

Once again, you are not in charge of taking anyone and he that is says this:


21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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Allow me to expound on the subject of blindness. When I lost the vision in one eye, I thanked Yeshua because I always have Him, and I offered the other eye if it were His will, confessing at the same time that I would really love to keep it. It too went away, however it returned because He gave it back to me. While my vision was away, I learned to see far better without it. There is nothing important in this age because it all passes. No one has ever died from good health. It was easy for me to yield to His will about my vision because it is simply a manifestation of growing old and being closer to peaceful sleep, unless of course Yeshua returns before that sleep. Now you say I am blind and you see. This too has occurred in the Word. It is better to be blind in the eyes than to deny the will of our blessed Father. You must obey YHWH even if you live in grace, otherwise you are disobedient, and this is constantly shown as being akin to idolatry. As for that veil, since the moment YHWH gave me some spiritual reason I have seen Yeshua from Genesis through the final Amen of Revelation, and this is far from what you are trying to teach others. May YHWH open your eyes now, amen.
For the sake of the body and the edification of the church, I think it would be better to stick with what the scriptures teach under the new covenant of grace. You purposely avoid the teachings of the body and of the church that we have in the NT scriptures and it would not matter if I or someone else made mention of them. YOU DO NOT WANT TO OBEY THOSE SCRIPTURES CONCERNING THE CHURCH AND BODY OF CHRIST and is reveals some of the hardness that you have against those teachings that our Lord gave to the apostle Paul. They are inspired of God and given by revelation as a mystery revealed that was not revealed to any of the OT prophets including Moses, but was revealed in the dispensation and time of the church and grace of God.

We as believers are to apply these teachings that have been given under the new covenant of grace by our Lord and not refuse them. You are very abstract about the teaching and doctrine of the church and body of Christ, which is THE FULNESS OF GOD. You won't make comment about the fulness of God in the body because you don't believe in it or in the inspired teachings that we have been given through the apostle Paul about it.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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I think what Red33 is trying to say is this:

We, as people, can help guide others towards Jesus and God. We are supposed to. We are meant to love and respect one another as we are first of all. If we cannot even know someone for who they are, how can we love them??
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Matthew 5
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Red If you think anything Paul said could take authority over anything that Yahshua the Messiah taught, then you are the one one that does not know the fullness of Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.


Matthew 28

16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.