Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Last]

Abolishing the papacy would go a long way to repairing that schism as papal supremacy was the first irreparable schism (and the most egregious) in Christendom to occur between orthodox believers. I don't see how it can ever be truly repaired without the RCC surrendering papal supremacy.

The papacy existed since the beginning of the Church.

 

[Last]

It will be abolished when Christ returns and rules directly "forever and ever."

That aside, you are revealing that you do not really understand the extent of the schism with respect to the RCC doctrine of papal supremacy. It is irreparable.

Let me give you a different view: there will be a formation of a super world church consisting of a union between liberal ecumenical Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church, joining politically hand in hand, to create one of the most powerful religious forces on earth freely using the name of Jesus Christ: but it's going to be antichrist and political in many of its activities despite it's social action, charity, and ministries of compassion.

The pope will be considered more of a political than a spiritual leader of this great union. Protestant leaders of the ecumenical movement will insist upon and receive certain concessions from Rome in exchange. They will not be asked to consider the pope as the infallible head of the church and, in exchange, will accept his political leadership without accepting his role as Peter's successor.

I'm not asserting that the Pope in this super church organization will be engaging in antichrist activity. But an army of career people invading the most influential posts in this super church organization will be ungodly, antichrist people, obsessed with the concept that this super church must become a political power strong enough to put pressure on all those who oppose its actions.

While those in the highest posts of leadership will be speaking about miracles, love, and reconciliation the hirelings who work under them will be harassing and persecuting all Christian organizations opposed to their leadership. Homosexual and lesbian love will be vindicated by the leadership of this church union, including the pope, and will be both welcomed and encouraged. Homosexual and lesbian ministers will be ordained and given places of authority in this church union, and will be heralded as a new breed of pioneer introducing new concepts of love and evangelism.

Sunday school and church literature will be distributed in study curriculum asserting to children and teenagers that homosexuality is a normal and acceptable form of Christian sexual practice and most homosexuals will no longer seek help from the church as their sin will be defended by this super church as "gifts from God."

In some of the super church's member assemblies nude dancing will be excused as "artistic forms of worship." Men will become worshippers of the creature more than of the Creator, and God will be forced to give these kinds of worshippers
over to a reprobate mind.

The super church will condone certain occult practices (phrenology, palmistry, fortune-telling, horoscopes, etc...) in practice though it will never officially accept occult practices outright.
While all of this is occurring, a great and supernatural union of all true followers of Jesus Christ bound together through the Holy Spirit and mutual confidence in Christ and His Word will become a kind of underground fellowship and will include Catholics and Protestants of all denominations. It will bind together young and old, black and white, and people of all nations.

While the visible super world church gains political power, this invisible supernatural church will grow tremendously in spiritual power. This power will come from persecution. The persecution madness that is coming upon this earth will drive these Christians closer together and closer to Jesus Christ. There will be less concern for denominational concepts and more emphasis on the return of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will bring together, as one, people from all faiths and walks of life.

Although this supernatural church already exists around the world, it will become politically more invisible. But as persecution becomes more intense, this body of believers will become almost radical in its evangelistic efforts. This invisible church will receive Holy Ghost power to continue preaching the gospel until the ends of the earth have heard acting as a thorn in the side of the super church "coming out from among them" as ultimately, the RCC takes a negative stand against the Charismatic movement within the Catholic Church.

And Elvis will be the Pope and the cardinals will be aliens.

 

[Last]

That's what he likes to believe too...

The only reason I look forward to Pope Francis' passing is that once again, all the conspiracy theorists will be proven wrong, but they'll never admit it.

 

[didymos]

You know what. I'm not the one who started this thread. And by the way, I don't know Maynard, and there are many of us Catholics on here. instead, why don't you take down your "No Catholics allowed" attitude, because I am sick and tired of the sheer snottiness of the responses by some people. You want me to drop it, why don't you?

You're sticking up for him though, like good buddies do. You didn't start this thread, true, someone else did, and for a good reason. Let's read what he wrote, then we can decide who should 'drop it,' ok?

We try to welcome everyone to our site including people who grow up with Catholic tradition because of course we want to lead people to the truth. (...)

So for the record, Catholicism is heresy. That's what the admins of this site believe. (...)

 

[ThomistColin]

You're sticking up for him though, like good buddies do. You didn't start this thread, true, someone else did, and for a good reason. Let's read what he wrote, then we can decide who should 'drop it,' ok?

And I am not allowed to say the admins are wrong? Wow, what a twisted world you live in. Also, yes I was defending Maynard from your comment which literally has been quoted over and over again by both sides. It wasn't helpful, it was simply another comment to inflame an already heated argument.

 

[1still_waters]

From another post. Mary is clearly put in the place of Jesus, and she's more than our cosmic prayer partner in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church.
------
All sources below come straight from Roman Catholic sources. This is not from anti-Catholic propaganda sites.
----------------------------
SUMMARY
There is a Roman Catholic practice called Total Consecration to the Immaculate.
These three things are part of the practice.

1. We promise to become dependent on Mary in all things.
2. To offer all our prayers and oblations to God through Mary.
3. To seek every gift from God through Mary.
----------------------------
THE DETAILS WITH EVIDENCE
I came across a Roman Catholic term/practice today while doing research.
It involves offering up all prayers to God through Mary.
Not through Jesus, but through Mary.

"Total Consecration to the Immaculate"

I saw the term while reading about Pope Francis's visit to a religious community.

The Franciscans sang the Ave Maria of Fatima and in the hands of the Pope renewed their vow of Total Consecration to the Immaculate.

eucharistandmission: Pope meets Franciscans of the Immaculate : seminary to remain closed

What is Total Consecration to the Immaculate all about?
Don't worry, I didn't go to anti-Catholic sites to find sources.
Sometimes they can over spin rhetoric and make things look super scary.

Here is a description from an actual Roman Catholic related site.

By our consecration we promise to become dependent on Mary in all things: to offer all our prayers and oblations to God through Mary, and to seek every gift from God through Mary. And we do this with the greatest confidence. Since she is our mother, she knows our needs better than we; and since she is Queen of Heaven, she has immediate access to the infinite treasury of graces in the Kingdom of her Divine Son.

CONSECRATION TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY

Roman Catholics on this forum tend to downplay the whole praying to Mary thing.
They portray it as if you're just giving Mary some of your prayer requests, so she can pray for you. You know, just like when you call Mrs. Snodgrass for prayer in your church's prayer chain.

As you can see, Total Consecration To The Immaculate takes it further than Mary being your heavenly prayer partner version of Mrs. Snodgrass.

1. We promise to become dependent on Mary in all things.
2. To offer all our prayers and oblations to God through Mary.
3. To seek every gift from God through Mary.

Before you go questioning my source above, know that this movement is directly linked to the Roman Catholic Church.

Rosary Confraternity of the Catholic Church, a world-wide movement of prayer for peace. We are administered by the Dominican Fathers, Fr. Reginald Martin, O.P., Director. We are located next to the Holy Rosary Church in Portland,Oregon, USA, the city of roses. Included is how to pray the rosary. Those who pray the Rosary regularly would do well to be enrolled in the Confraternity to gain extra spiritual benefits for each Rosary they pray.

Rosary Center - Rosary Confraternity

This is all linked to Fatima, which Pope Francis himself approves of.

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis will consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary Oct. 13 as part of the Marian Day celebration that will involve the iconic statue of Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima.“The Holy Father strongly desires that the Marian Day may have present, as a special sign, one of the most significant Marian icons for Christians throughout the world, and, for that reason, we thought of the beloved original statue of Our Lady of Fatima,” wrote Cardinal Rino Fisichella.

Pope Francis to Consecrate the World to Mary’s Immaculate Heart | Daily News | NCRegister.com
Corrections to Roman Catholicism's Heresy as shown above.

1. We promise to become dependent on Mary in all things.

The Bible says we must be dependent on Jesus in all things.
John 15
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

2. To offer all our prayers and oblations to God through Mary.

The Bible says we have access to God through Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

3. To seek every gift from God through Mary.

The Bible says all spiritual blessings are found in Jesus.
Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

 

[ThomistColin]

Don't make a leap in logic. Many Catholics approve this consecration, but many of us do not approve of it. I readily admit that there are bad Catholics, but don't lump us on into this. The woman who took me under her wing when I became Catholic had never heard of this until I mentioned it. Both she and I have written letters to our Bishop. There are also Catholic lay leaders, like Matthew Kelly and Jimmy Akin, who denounce this practice.

As I said in another post, I hope we are the voice of Paul scolding Peter.

 

[1still_waters]

Don't make a leap in logic. Many Catholics approve this consecration, but many of us do not approve of it. I readily admit that there are bad Catholics, but don't lump us on into this. The woman who took me under her wing when I became Catholic had never heard of this until I mentioned it. Both she and I have written letters to our Bishop. There are also Catholic lay leaders, like Matthew Kelly and Jimmy Akin, who denounce this practice.

As I said in another post, I hope we are the voice of Paul scolding Peter.

No this isn't just fringy stuff.
A prayer written right from one of your Popes where Mary not God is described as having designs for this world, and described as a ruler over us.

Please accept our consecration, dearest Mother, and use us as You wish to accomplish Your designs in the world.O Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, and Queen of the World, rule over us,

--Venerable Pope Pius XII

http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/heart/Im_consecr.htm

 

[1still_waters]

Another Marian prayer, this from a very mainstream Catholic site.
Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary # 2 - Prayers - Catholic Online

We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are.
To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country.
We desire that all that is in us and around us may belong to thee

Shouldn't we be giving our whole life to God, and our souls to God?

 

[ThomistColin]

No this isn't just fringy stuff.
A prayer written right from one of your Popes where Mary not God is described as having designs for this world, and described as a ruler over us.


--Venerable Pope Pius XII

http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/heart/Im_consecr.htm

Okay, just ignore my comment. The total consecration to Mary is not main line. Plus, no one denies that Catholicism is filled with fallible humans who screw things up. The whole of Christianity has those people. We simply believe that what is wrong with Catholicism can be fixed by God. He promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail, He did not promise that the gates of Hell would not try.

 

[1still_waters]

Okay, just ignore my comment. The total consecration to Mary is not main line. Plus, no one denies that Catholicism is filled with fallible humans who screw things up. The whole of Christianity has those people. We simply believe that what is wrong with Catholicism can be fixed by God. He promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail, He did not promise that the gates of Hell would not try.

Yes it is. It goes straight to the office of Pope, and straight to a mainstream Catholic TV station.

Things said by a Pope and by the mainstream station are very congruent with the supposed fringe.
Link--> http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tion-immaculate-real-sources.html#post1582498

 

[ThomistColin]

Yes it is. It goes straight to the office of Pope, and straight to a mainstream Catholic TV station.

Things said by a Pope and by the mainstream station are very congruent with the supposed fringe.
Link--> http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tion-immaculate-real-sources.html#post1582498

So, I'm lying when I said other Catholics have never heard about this. It may be common in some areas, but it is not common among the Polish community in Northwestern New Jersey.

 

[1still_waters]

So, I'm lying when I said other Catholics have never heard about this. It may be common in some areas, but it is not common among the Polish community in Northwestern New Jersey.

A Pope. The chiefest of theologians. The loudest voice in your church. A man not hidden in a closet.
A man who is about as mainstream and noticeable in your church, referred to Mary in a prayer this way..

1. One who accomplishes her designs in the world.
2. A ruler over us.
3. A savior from sins.
4. A throne of grace.
5. Having a triumphant rule.

Please accept our consecration, dearest Mother, and use us as You wish to accomplish Your designs in the world.O Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary, Queen of the Most Holy Rosary, and Queen of the World, rule over us,

Save us from the spreading flood of modern paganism; kindle in our hearts and homes the love of purity, the practice of a virtuous life, an ardent zeal for souls, and a desire to pray the Rosary more faithfully.

We come with confidence to You, O Throne of Grace
together with your rule, triumph in every heart and home.

Read more:A Solemn Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
--Venerable Pope Pius XII
A Solemn Act of Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

The Pope is as mainstream as you can get.

 

[ThomistColin]

I pray the rosary. I say Hail Mary's. I even love the music to Salve Regina. I acknowledge Mary as Mother of the Church. She is one of the Saints I ask to pray for me. She has no divinity, no power. I do believe she and all saints can hear our request for prayers. She is the most blessed woman to have ever lived.

I weep that my fellow Catholics go too far. But like Paul, I am not going to leave because I see wrong. I'm going to cry out for it to change. Even if it doesn't change in my lifetime, I know God will see to it that it is changed.

 

[1still_waters]

I pray the rosary. I say Hail Mary's. I even love the music to Salve Regina. I acknowledge Mary as Mother of the Church. She is one of the Saints I ask to pray for me. She has no divinity, no power. I do believe she and all saints can hear our request for prayers. She is the most blessed woman to have ever lived.

The catechism of your own church says she does have power.
1. She's described as the queen over all things.

when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things

2. She's given the same power titles as the third person of the Trinity.

therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church

You also said you pray the Rosary.
A Rosary prayer, The Litany of the blessed virgin Mary, that prayer refers to Mary as the gate of heaven, and as the morning star.

Jesus is the bright Morning Star, not Mary.
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Rev 22:16



~ The Most Holy Rosary ~ Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary
[TABLE="class: body2, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Tower of David,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Turris Davidica,
R. ora pro nobis.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Tower of ivory,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Turris eburnea,
R. ora pro nobis.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]House of gold,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Domus aurea,
R. ora pro nobis.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Ark of the covenant,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Foederis arca,
R. ora pro nobis.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Gate of heaven,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Ianua caeli,
R. ora pro nobis.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Morning star,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"]Stella matutina,
R. ora pro nobis.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]Health of the sick,
R. pray for us.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[ThomistColin]

That's the litany of Mary, not the Rosary.

 

[1still_waters]

That's the litany of Mary, not the Rosary.

Ooops another pope approved prayer that gives deity terms to Mary.

[TABLE="width: 515"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 928, colspan: 2"]This litany to the Blessed Virgin Mary was composed during the Middle Ages. The place of honor it now holds in the life of the Church is due to its faithful use at the shrine of the Holy House at Loreto. It was definitely approved by Sixtus V in 1587,[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Ark of the covenant,
Gate of Heaven,
Morning star,
https://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/Litanies/Loreto.htm

 

[ThomistColin]

Ooops another pope approved prayer that gives deity terms to Mary.

Ark of the covenant,
Gate of Heaven,
Morning star,
https://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/Litanies/Loreto.htm

I actually agree with Ark of the Covenant. She carried Christ inside her. When the ark is mentioned in Revelation, John suddenly begins describing a pregnant woman. So that one, I agree with.

 

[ThomistColin]

By the way...litany of the Most Holy Rosary isn't that bad. It clearly delineates between Mary and God. Mary's titles, I agree are at times WAY TOO extravagant, but she's only ever asked to pray. The rest of the litany is asking God for mercy and submitting to God's providence.

 

[didymos]

And I am not allowed to say the admins are wrong?

Well, you may try.

Wow, what a twisted world you live in. (...)

Maybe, not nearly as 'twisted' as catholicism though.