Catholicism vs Protestantism

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G

garee

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There is no authority in what is written anywhere.
Authority lies with people.
Jesus said “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20)

Make disciples by teaching them - not handing out a book and saying "make up your own religion from that".
When did Jesus give any of that authority to what is written?

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. (the fathers)


Not even what is written of the legion of Catholic fathers? or sola scriptura no authority there only ?

Make disciples by teaching them the law of the fathers? Or the law of our unseen father in heaven? can't serve two teaching Masters .

The law of the corrupted fathers...below. Kill them that do not agree. Out of sight out of mind .The pagan foundation (no faith needed)

(Purple) in parentheses by added opinion.

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was (falsely) zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest (Pope) doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. Acts 22:3-5

When unconverted Saul got under the hearing of faith. Paul became public enemy #1 as they pursued to kill him according to paganism (out of sight out of mind) There we are given the name of the first denomination on this side of the cross. Nazarenes. (not Catholic) They thought by silencing the ringleader down and under. The other would hide from them. Out of sight out of mind.

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. Acts 24:5-6

Paul teaching them a lesson in faith . The Holy Spirit revealed to them one manner of faith .All things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

The true fathers walked by faith. But they like the disciples in John 6 walked away in unbelief (no faith).

Paul said he worshipped the God of the fathers .and not gods in the likeness of men as the fathers (legion patron saints ) . But our one unseen Holy Father in heaven . No man can serve two teaches masters as fathers . Catholiscim simply followed the same kind of law of the legion of corrupted fathers as did the corrupted Jews with different names. Rather than Abraham they used our brother in Christ, Peter, the serial denier.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:Acts 24:13-14

Why do you think they could not prove it?
 
J

Jackson123

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2 john 1:10-11
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

I admit not easy to obey this verse. But invite all religion that most of it not believe the teaching of Jesus is worse than refused to come to your house.

If they come don't receive them

Pope invite and welcome them.

Seem to me, this is direct attack of 2 john 1:10-11
 
J

Jackson123

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Dan_473 said:
well, I'm not Catholic, but I see it this way
Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise are like goads; and like nails well fastened are words from the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

many sources, one Shepherd.

say, my brother garee, here's a question we could discuss:
when was the last scripture written? does the Bible say?
Click to expand...
Definition of tradition

1a: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (such as a religious practice or a social custom)
b: a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable … the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet …— J. L. Esposito
2: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction
3: cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions
4: characteristic manner, method, or style in the best liberal tradition

Tradition from Christian is ok, put pagan tradition into church is the problem
 
B

Bede

Guest
#2,485
#2,485
garee said:
There is no authority in what is written anywhere.
Authority lies with people.
Jesus said “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” (Mt 28:18-20)

Make disciples by teaching them - not handing out a book and saying "make up your own religion from that".
When did Jesus give any of that authority to what is written?

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. (the fathers)


Not even what is written of the legion of Catholic fathers? or sola scriptura no authority there only ?

Make disciples by teaching them the law of the fathers? Or the law of our unseen father in heaven? can't serve two teaching Masters .

The law of the corrupted fathers...below. Kill them that do not agree. Out of sight out of mind .The pagan foundation (no faith needed)

(Purple) in parentheses by added opinion.

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was (falsely) zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest (Pope) doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished. Acts 22:3-5

When unconverted Saul got under the hearing of faith. Paul became public enemy #1 as they pursued to kill him according to paganism (out of sight out of mind) There we are given the name of the first denomination on this side of the cross. Nazarenes. (not Catholic) They thought by silencing the ringleader down and under. The other would hide from them. Out of sight out of mind.

For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. Acts 24:5-6

Paul teaching them a lesson in faith . The Holy Spirit revealed to them one manner of faith .All things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

The true fathers walked by faith. But they like the disciples in John 6 walked away in unbelief (no faith).

Paul said he worshipped the God of the fathers .and not gods in the likeness of men as the fathers (legion patron saints ) . But our one unseen Holy Father in heaven . No man can serve two teaches masters as fathers . Catholiscim simply followed the same kind of law of the legion of corrupted fathers as did the corrupted Jews with different names. Rather than Abraham they used our brother in Christ, Peter, the serial denier.

Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:Acts 24:13-14

Why do you think they could not prove it?
Click to expand...
If you could put this ramble into sensible English I'll answer you.
 
B

Bede

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#2,487
Jackson123 said:
We are talking about Jews that refuse jesus.
John 5

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Click to expand...
Then according to you until the Jews rejected Jesus they were worshipping the one true God. But once they rejected Jesus God changed into a false God.
What a weird idea.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Bede said:
That is your personal opinion.
You said "I am not interested in peoples opinions."
Why should I be interest in yours?
Click to expand...
The comment is not an opinion. It was Jesus who said man will be judged by the word. Therefore, the word has to contain all things necessary in order to give mankind the ability to be obedient to God.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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Jackson123 said:
No is not, catholic is mixed pagan and Christian.
Click to expand...
have you read the early church fathers?
that would be an example of early Christian tradition.

I haven't researched it myself, but I've heard that the idea of baptizing babies is found in the early church fathers.

is that a tradition that you or the people you worship with on Sunday morning follow?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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Wansvic said:
It was Jesus who said man will be judged by the word.
Click to expand...
does Jesus say that humans will be judged by the Bible?

or does he say that humans will be judged by his words?
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Dan_473 said:
God perfectly inspired the scriptures.
and while the apostles were alive, they maintained the church in good order.

(the reader can decide if the following is satire or history as it actually happened.)

sometime after the death of the last apostle, the Catholics (boo, hiss) took over and changed things all around.

it wasn't until sometime around the Reformation, when the Bible became more easily available and readable by the common person, that things got straightened out again.
Click to expand...
Sadly, not all that the forerunners of the catholic church corrupted has been restored. Many protestant churches still administer water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. This corruption took place in 325 A.D. when the concept of the trinity was introduced.

The catholic church themselves state that all religions that water baptize the way they do are considered to be "daughters" of the Mother church.

Consider the implications of removing the all powerful name of the Lord Jesus from water baptism. The word clearly says that there is no other name under heaven by which man is saved.

Search the scriptures and you will find that every water baptism throughout the entire bible is done in the name of the Lord Jesus.
 
B

Bede

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Wansvic said:
The comment is not an opinion. It was Jesus who said man will be judged by the word. Therefore, the word has to contain all things necessary in order to give mankind the ability to be obedient to God.
Click to expand...
As I have already said:
You are confusing The Word of God (Jesus) with the words of God written down.
John 1:1 doesn't say "In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.
 
B

Bede

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#2,494
Wansvic said:
Sadly, not all that the forerunners of the catholic church corrupted has been restored. Many protestant churches still administer water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. This corruption took place in 325 A.D. when the concept of the trinity was introduced.

The catholic church themselves state that all religions that water baptize the way they do are considered to be "daughters" of the Mother church.

Consider the implications of removing the all powerful name of the Lord Jesus from water baptism. The word clearly says that there is no other name under heaven by which man is saved.

Search the scriptures and you will find that every water baptism throughout the entire bible is done in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
Early texts, even of apostolic times, show that baptism was with water and in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

"Regarding baptism, baptise thus. After giving the forgoing instructions, "Baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in running water. But if you have no running water, baptise in any other..." Didache – (1st century AD)

And in the 2nd century
"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (Justin Martyr First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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Bede said:
Then according to you until the Jews rejected Jesus they were worshipping the one true God. But once they rejected Jesus God changed into a false God.
What a weird idea.
Click to expand...
seems like it could lead to some interesting situations.

suppose: a Jewish person born in about 20 BC living in Asia Minor.

they worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the true God.

Jesus is born, dies, and comes back to life again, but this person never hears about it.

they never change their practices or beliefs and die at the age of 60.

yet somehow, between the age of about 20 and 50, they go from worshipping the true God to worshipping a false god.

comments, my precious brother @Jackson123 (or anyone) ?
 
G

garee

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Dan_473 said:
no, my point is that people who say they use scripture only almost always use tradition to say what is scripture and what is not.
Click to expand...

While that is true .Not all traditions make sola scriptura without effect. Just the kind of judgeable (damnable) heresy as personal or private interpretation of God's interpretation the bible, that do despite the grace of God .Of course catholisicim teaches that their own private interpretation as a law of the father is the standard.

That one that does despite to grace is judgeable as those who do need to hear the gospel of grace . .Catholicism clearly does despite to the grace of God given it over to a Queen .

They teach that only Mary received the fullness of grace in order to create a false authority of a Queen of heaven. A law of the catholic fathers. Catholiscim simply used the name Mary our sister in the lord to usurp the authroity of our Holy Father. Saying all others receive a unknow remnant of Grace and give no understand how long one must suffer for their own sin even after they are dead.

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

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Bede said:
As I have already said:
You are confusing The Word of God (Jesus) with the words of God written down.
John 1:1 doesn't say "In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God.
Click to expand...
I am not confusing anything. My confidence is placed in what Jesus conveyed; everyone will be judged by the word. You can believe it if you like. Everyone must make their own decision:

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48
 
G

garee

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Bede said:
Early texts, even of apostolic times, show that baptism was with water and in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

"Regarding baptism, baptise thus. After giving the forgoing instructions, "Baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in running water. But if you have no running water, baptise in any other..." Didache – (1st century AD)

And in the 2nd century
"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (Justin Martyr First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
Click to expand...
"Apostolic times" is a deceptive phrase that came out of Catholicism.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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Wansvic said:
Sadly, not all that the forerunners of the catholic church corrupted has been restored. Many protestant churches still administer water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. This corruption took place in 325 A.D. when the concept of the trinity was introduced.

The catholic church themselves state that all religions that water baptize the way they do are considered to be "daughters" of the Mother church.

Consider the implications of removing the all powerful name of the Lord Jesus from water baptism. The word clearly says that there is no other name under heaven by which man is saved.

Search the scriptures and you will find that every water baptism throughout the entire bible is done in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Click to expand...
I think some of the misunderstandings come from "in the name of..."

in English, we sometimes say "stop in the name of the law".
we are not thinking of a particular name in that case,
nor do we think something important happens when we make the sound "law" with our mouths.

so given that, why not baptize in the name of Jesus and in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy Spirit?

I think if you look at the words said at the rite of baptism, that's what they do.
and most Protestant churches do the same thing.
 
B

Bede

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Wansvic said:
I am not confusing anything. My confidence is placed in what Jesus conveyed; everyone will be judged by the word. You can believe it if you like. Everyone must make their own decision:

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48
Click to expand...
As I have pointed out several times not everything that Jesus spoke was written down.

"Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book"(John 20:30)
and
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25)

Scripture is not the totality of all that Jesus did and said. It never claims that is is, and John says it is not.
 
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