Catholicism vs Protestantism

[garee]

English Language Learners Definition of heresy
: a belief or opinion that does not agree with the official belief or opinion of a particular religion

Quote

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

End quote

What church is consider heresy in this ccc.?

Heresy mean do not believe with official doctrine catholic

So I am heresy, because I don't believe pope is peter successor, I don't believe pray to Mary or surrender my soul to Mary.

And if official doctrine mean bible, than catholic is heresy, because lie about Peter being in Rome, pray to Mary, Mary elevated to heaven, Mary co redeemer etc

Catholicism as a law of the fathers oral tradition of men.They that went out from us simply redefines words and invent there own meanings. Some words like saint or apostle have been completely destroyed and given to the hands of corruptible mankind . Just like the word heresy which is simply "bias" to ones own idea. Heresy, opinion, sect or denomination . Heresy private in interpretation, a personal commentary that come from studying his interpretation as the witness of God .The greater witness that that of man's heresy.

They as a law of the fathers simply declare their interpretation above that which is written.works every time for those who seek after another source of faith another gospel other than sola scriptural

God's witness says there must be heresies among us who do walk by faith the unseen eternal . Catholicism proves to be faithless having two source of Divine authorities and one Master. . . the things seen the temporal

 

[Dino246]

Catholicism as a law of the fathers oral tradition of men.They that went out from us simply redefines words and invent there own meanings. Some words like saint or apostle have been completely destroyed and given to the hands of corruptible mankind . Just like the word heresy which is simply "bias" to ones own idea. Heresy, opinion, sect or denomination . Heresy private in interpretation, a personal commentary that come from studying his interpretation as the witness of God .The greater witness that that of man's heresy.

They as a law of the fathers simply declare their interpretation above that which is written.works every time for those who seek after another source of faith another gospel other than sola scriptural

God's witness says there must be heresies among us who do walk by faith the unseen eternal . Catholicism proves to be faithless having two source of Divine authorities and one Master. . . the things seen the temporal

Garee, PLEASE take a class in basic English. How you expect anyone to wade through such word salad is beyond me. Honestly, your sentence structure is so poor that it is actually difficult to make sense of what you write. Your contributions to this site would be much more valuable if they could be understood by anyone other than you.

 

[Jackson123]

Catholicism as a law of the fathers oral tradition of men.They that went out from us simply redefines words and invent there own meanings. Some words like saint or apostle have been completely destroyed and given to the hands of corruptible mankind . Just like the word heresy which is simply "bias" to ones own idea. Heresy, opinion, sect or denomination . Heresy private in interpretation, a personal commentary that come from studying his interpretation as the witness of God .The greater witness that that of man's heresy.

They as a law of the fathers simply declare their interpretation above that which is written.works every time for those who seek after another source of faith another gospel other than sola scriptural

God's witness says there must be heresies among us who do walk by faith the unseen eternal . Catholicism proves to be faithless having two source of Divine authorities and one Master. . . the things seen the temporal

1 John 2:18-19 King James Version (KJV)

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Yep, that is what I believe

Look like Christian /us but not one of us

 

[Dan_473]

Have you ever asked yourself why you only see reasons why God cannot do what He as declared He is going to do? The word of God has been handed down by oral traditions and written on scrolls for millennia. God has given His inspired word to man and God has preserved His word unto this day.

Why do you not trust God? You seem all too willing to trust church fathers and so called saints.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Did God declare that he was going to reveal his truth to each individual, separately and personally, as they read the Bible? Possibly it does, but I can't think of a verse that says that.

I agree God's word was written on scrolls and handed down for millennia. But for most of that time, those scrolls were not available to the common person.

Oral traditions? From what I understand, that idea is used by most Jews today to support the talmud as also containing Revelation from God. I think Catholics also use that idea to support some doctrines that are only mentioned very slightly in the scriptures.

Of course, one can always say that oral tradition is fine as long as it doesn't contradict the scriptures. But then, imo, it's back to a question of whether the individual or the group decides if there is a contradiction.


I do trust God to do what he has said. I agree that God has preserved his word, though maybe not in any one particular Bible or manuscript.

The Bible is a big book, and there's lots of different ways to look at it and interpret it, both as a whole and passages in it.

 

[garee]

1 John 2:18-19 King James Version (KJV)

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Yep, that is what I believe

Look like Christian /us but not one of us

That teaching sounds like what the apostle John said .He had things mixed upside down . Jesus turned it right side up.

It would seem to emphasized in Mark 9 and Luke 9. Who are the "us" that some go out of? . A opportunity for Jesus to teach the apostles how to walk by faith the unseen eternal. Using parables as the teaching aid. Three times purposely hiding the unseen understanding to reveal the mystery with a rebuke to his children at the end .Saying . . . "You have absolutely no idea what manner of spirit you are of" and he increased their faith or understanding.

After the first misunderstood demonstration the apostles must of thought Jesus lost it . . . immediately the alpha who let the dog out is the greatest, broke out . After the last parable he looked one way and went the other to show he is no respecter of persons. They wanted him to bring down fire it backfired and they received the fiery refining fire of the loving rebuke .Comforting their cold hearts assuring them that they were of the "us" that walks by a faith that works in us calls us back to our first love. . . believing God not seen the hearing of Him not seen .

And I besought thy disciples to cast him out; and they could not. And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father. And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.40 - 55

 

[Dan_473]

I don't know if they have written scripture by than

And yes, by than God use apostle and elder, now God use elder, I don't know about apostle.

Do you believe catholic lead by apostle?

I believe they had written scriptures before Acts chapter 15

Acts 1: 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation be made desolate. Let no one dwell therein;' and, 'Let another take his office.'


I don't know about whether there are apostles today, either.

I think the Catholic position is that the priests and bishops are not apostles, but are elders and retain the same teaching authority as apostles.


Interesting situation here, I think

Titus 1: 5 I left you in Crete for this reason, that you would set in order the things that were lacking, and appoint elders in every city, as I directed you;

Paul appoints Titus, who then appoints elders in every city.

What happened when Titus died? Did he appoint someone else to his position before he died? Or did the elders in the cities get together and choose someone to take the role of Titus?

I think Catholics say that the authority structure put in place by the apostles continues to this day in the form of Catholic priests and bishops. It's passed on through a succession, by the laying on of hands.

I can consider that as a possibility, but I don't know for sure.


A related question, if a group of Christians feel that they have found the Bible truth and there's no existing church around to go to, can they just set up their own authority structure? I think that's what some groups were doing during the Protestant Reformation, and it still happens today, though usually just with small groups.

 

[Jackson123]

I believe they had written scriptures before Acts chapter 15

Acts 1: 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation be made desolate. Let no one dwell therein;' and, 'Let another take his office.'


I don't know about whether there are apostles today, either.

I think the Catholic position is that the priests and bishops are not apostles, but are elders and retain the same teaching authority as apostles.


Interesting situation here, I think

Titus 1: 5 I left you in Crete for this reason, that you would set in order the things that were lacking, and appoint elders in every city, as I directed you;

Paul appoints Titus, who then appoints elders in every city.

What happened when Titus died? Did he appoint someone else to his position before he died? Or did the elders in the cities get together and choose someone to take the role of Titus?

I think Catholics say that the authority structure put in place by the apostles continues to this day in the form of Catholic priests and bishops. It's passed on through a succession, by the laying on of hands.

I can consider that as a possibility, but I don't know for sure.


A related question, if a group of Christians feel that they have found the Bible truth and there's no existing church around to go to, can they just set up their own authority structure? I think that's what some groups were doing during the Protestant Reformation, and it still happens today, though usually just with small groups.

The Old Testament book was complete before Jesus, but I believe NT is still in the process, for example book of revelation not till the '90.

About oral teaching I am not agree. It is high risk. Easy to lie when no written document. Event with written document some people lie and make false doctrine. How about no written document

About apostle successor, catholic believe pope is Peter successor

From catholic answere

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition [A.D. 251]).

1. ........on him(Peter) He build the church

So catholic believe Peter is the foundation of the church, can we build house without foundation?

In other word only catholic is the church.

2......... If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith?

In plan English if one not catholic is he still hold faith?

Mean only catholic have faith

But Muslim is in the plan of salvation

Is Muslim hold fast to the unity of Peter?

https://www.catholic.com/tract/peters-successors

 

[garee]

Did God declare that he was going to reveal his truth to each individual, separately and personally, as they read the Bible? Possibly it does, but I can't think of a verse that says that.

I agree God's word was written on scrolls and handed down for millennia. But for most of that time, those scrolls were not available to the common person.

Oral traditions? From what I understand, that idea is used by most Jews today to support the talmud as also containing Revelation from God. I think Catholics also use that idea to support some doctrines that are only mentioned very slightly in the scriptures.

Of course, one can always say that oral tradition is fine as long as it doesn't contradict the scriptures. But then, imo, it's back to a question of whether the individual or the group decides if there is a contradiction.


I do trust God to do what he has said. I agree that God has preserved his word, though maybe not in any one particular Bible or manuscript.

The Bible is a big book, and there's lots of different ways to look at it and interpret it, both as a whole and passages in it.

Perhaps the verse that you think does not exist is more of a living commandment to those given ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches (us). To study rightly dividing His word of truth so we can seek the approval of the Teacher the Good Master not seen.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

He warns us of those who say we need a man to teach us .Calls them antichrists. . . another kind of anointing spirit false christs.

 

[Jackson123]

I believe they had written scriptures before Acts chapter 15

Acts 1: 20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, 'Let his habitation be made desolate. Let no one dwell therein;' and, 'Let another take his office.'


I don't know about whether there are apostles today, either.

I think the Catholic position is that the priests and bishops are not apostles, but are elders and retain the same teaching authority as apostles.


Interesting situation here, I think

Titus 1: 5 I left you in Crete for this reason, that you would set in order the things that were lacking, and appoint elders in every city, as I directed you;

Paul appoints Titus, who then appoints elders in every city.

What happened when Titus died? Did he appoint someone else to his position before he died? Or did the elders in the cities get together and choose someone to take the role of Titus?

I think Catholics say that the authority structure put in place by the apostles continues to this day in the form of Catholic priests and bishops. It's passed on through a succession, by the laying on of hands.

I can consider that as a possibility, but I don't know for sure.


A related question, if a group of Christians feel that they have found the Bible truth and there's no existing church around to go to, can they just set up their own authority structure? I think that's what some groups were doing during the Protestant Reformation, and it still happens today, though usually just with small groups.

If catholic don't like written document, why they write ccc
Catechism of the Catholic Church

Why don't ask member to memorize it so they don't neetpd to wrote it?

 

[Jackson123]

That teaching sounds like what the apostle John said .He had things mixed upside down . Jesus turned it right side up.

It would seem to emphasized in Mark 9 and Luke 9. Who are the "us" that some go out of? . A opportunity for Jesus to teach the apostles how to walk by faith the unseen eternal. Using parables as the teaching aid. Three times purposely hiding the unseen understanding to reveal the mystery with a rebuke to his children at the end .Saying . . . "You have absolutely no idea what manner of spirit you are of" and he increased their faith or understanding.

After the first misunderstood demonstration the apostles must of thought Jesus lost it . . . immediately the alpha who let the dog out is the greatest, broke out . After the last parable he looked one way and went the other to show he is no respecter of persons. They wanted him to bring down fire it backfired and they received the fiery refining fire of the loving rebuke .Comforting their cold hearts assuring them that they were of the "us" that walks by a faith that works in us calls us back to our first love. . . believing God not seen the hearing of Him not seen .

And I besought thy disciples to cast him out; and they could not. And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father. And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.40 - 55

Yep, apostle John help us to indemnified antichrist, to me seem fit to pope.

Pseudo christian

 

[ScottyPchristian]

Just ignore them. Scripture says that often your own family will have issues with you. They did with Jesus. Just keep doing God's will and let those who dont understand roll off your back.

I get what you mean, but rest assured I'm not offended by their criticism at all. Christ is worth dying for, so I pray for courage to endure persecution or death for His Name sake.
I have a heavy burden to see my family and friends saved, but I realize that I can't open their spiritual eyes. Only God can do that, all I can do is try to bare a good testimony and pray for them.

Unbelievers aren't interested in anything we have to say, they just look at how we live and they're very quick to find any little fault and try to destroy our testimony with it. I can't blame them for this, as I was even worse before the Lord humbled me.

 

[garee]

Yep, apostle John help us to indemnified antichrist, to me seem fit to pope.

Pseudo christian

The Pope wears the "daysman badge" proudly and therefore blasphemes the holy name by which we are called toward our unseen Father in heaven .

The badge of the antichrist is another teaching Master that lords it over the faith of other.Another manner of spirit other than the Holy Spirit not seen as it is written .

Daysman, a fleshly infallible umpire set between eternal God not seen and temporal man seen with approval from both .
Some today wear the daysman badge, the spirit of the antichrist Satan who works in a body of sin and the man of sin antichrists (many). Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man seen. That door of opportunity closed when the Son of man left never to return in the flesh for evermore.

Some wore it unexpectedly like Peter in Mathew 16 . The father rebuked the spirit of error . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man seen. The Son of God Jesus was not given that power according to his flesh . The Father's rebuked, in effect saying . . . get behind me Satan, not behind Peter. I got Peter's back as the rear guard as well as the forward guard .

Job 9:32-34 King James Version (KJV) For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

 

[Jackson123]

The Pope wears the "daysman badge" proudly and therefore blasphemes the holy name by which we are called toward our unseen Father in heaven .

The badge of the antichrist is another teaching Master that lords it over the faith of other.Another manner of spirit other than the Holy Spirit not seen as it is written .

Daysman, a fleshly infallible umpire set between eternal God not seen and temporal man seen with approval from both .
Some today wear the daysman badge, the spirit of the antichrist Satan who works in a body of sin and the man of sin antichrists (many). Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man seen. That door of opportunity closed when the Son of man left never to return in the flesh for evermore.

Some wore it unexpectedly like Peter in Mathew 16 . The father rebuked the spirit of error . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man seen. The Son of God Jesus was not given that power according to his flesh . The Father's rebuked, in effect saying . . . get behind me Satan, not behind Peter. I got Peter's back as the rear guard as well as the forward guard .

Job 9:32-34 King James Version (KJV) For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

What is daysman badge?

 

[garee]

What is daysman badge?

The badge of dishonor .Fleshly images in the holy unseen eternal place of faith . The place of the one unseen Good Master our God .

It is a sign in respect to the flesh seen that other men give honor and venerate as if the daysman's answer was directly of God. Having the approval of God not see and man seen .

The Pope .Or the temporal place Peter was in Mathew 16 . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemous spirit . . the spirit of the popes. Which was against the Son of man forgivable . When Jesus departed any idea of a pope/daysman after that only multiplies the blasphemy . Today they have over 3500 available workers with familiar spirits . Legion is picking up speed to those that they must call legion, patron saints and the Bible calls a abomination. The bible describes them as the legion .Never one

In that way the Pope can call on a legion of fathers .While Christians after one manner (Mathew 6)our Father unseen in heaven hallowed/venerate/worship be... "His one name of one God" Not gods "legion".

Daysman [N]
an umpire or arbiter or judge ( Job 9:33 ). This word is formed from the Latin diem dicere, i.e., to fix a day for hearing a cause. Such an one is empowered by mutual consent to decide the cause, and to "lay his hand", i.e., to impose his authority, on both, and enforce his sentence.

 

[Dan_473]

This is quote from ccc816




Quote


816 The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor


of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267




End quote




The sole church of Christ is= the only church of Christ, so other than describe below is not church of Christ,




Catholic is the only church of Christ, is the church entrust to Peter/lead by Peter.

I'm sure you agree that there is just one Church, one body

Ephesians 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all.

The question I think is whether God set up this one Church with a single authority structure, or many different authority structures, or no authority structure at all.

Than Vatican say Muslim in the plan of salvation, is that mean Muslim is s church lead by Peter? Or Catholic proven to be lie, some time say A some time B.


HOW IN THE WORLD REASONABLE PERSON BELIEVE THIS INCONSISTENT DICTRINE?

The two possible explanations I can think of

Catholics are really stupid.

Or

There's something that you're not understanding.

 

[Dan_473]

The Holy Spirit indwells each individual who is truly born-again. So it starts there and each person is to learn and know the bible for themselves (with the help of the Holy Spirit) so when being in a group you will Know Jesus Christ and His word and will not be deceived by men.

Galatians 5:16: “But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.”

That is what it means to live the Christian life. And we shall remember that Paul is confronting legalism, external ritual and ceremony, and he is saying that legalism can’t save you in the first 4 chapters of Galatians. And in chapter 5, he is saying legalism can’t even sanctify you. You are not made holy by external religious behaviors; you are made holy by walking by the Spirit. It is not external behavior, it is internal power. The Holy Spirit will always point you to Jesus Christ and will never point to any other.

Plow on, plow on....

Yes, maybe the individualist approach is the right one.

I can't figure out, though, what God's plan was to make that work before the printing press, when Bibles were really expensive.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Dan_473]

The Old Testament book was complete before Jesus, but I believe NT is still in the process, for example book of revelation not till the '90.

About oral teaching I am not agree. It is high risk. Easy to lie when no written document. Event with written document some people lie and make false doctrine. How about no written document

About apostle successor, catholic believe pope is Peter successor

From catholic answere

Cyprian of Carthage
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. . . . If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; first edition [A.D. 251]).

1. ........on him(Peter) He build the church

So catholic believe Peter is the foundation of the church, can we build house without foundation?

In other word only catholic is the church.

2......... If someone [today] does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith?

In plan English if one not catholic is he still hold faith?

Mean only catholic have faith

But Muslim is in the plan of salvation

Is Muslim hold fast to the unity of Peter?

https://www.catholic.com/tract/peters-successors

I agree that the old testament had been completed by the time of the events of Acts chapter 15. Probably none of the New testament books had been written at that time.

One issue is that although all the books in the New testament were probably completed before 100 AD, it was many years before the question of which books were in the New testament was settled.

And as I've been saying, Bibles back then were super expensive.


About oral teaching, I basically agree with you.


Jesus, of course, is the one who said he would build his church upon this Rock, which probably refers to Peter.


As I understand it, one of the main assumptions of Catholicism is that the system of elders that Paul and Titus put in place in order to teach continues to this day. So yes, if you deny that system, then you're denying one of the main points of Catholicism.


About Muslims, we've talked about this many times. Would you be able to summarize what you understand I have said so far on the subject of Muslims?

 

[Dan_473]

Perhaps the verse that you think does not exist is more of a living commandment to those given ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches (us).

Sure, it's possible. Along with that, I think it would also be possible for a person to convince themselves that they have heard something from the spirit that the spirit did not in fact say, especially if it's something the person really wanted to hear.

 

[Dan_473]

If catholic don't like written document, why they write ccc
Catechism of the Catholic Church

Why don't ask member to memorize it so they don't neetpd to wrote it?

I don't think it's that Catholics don't like written documents, just that the interpretation of those written documents is done by the church as a whole. By the group, not by the individual.

 

[Dan_473]

Than Vatican say Muslim in the plan of salvation, is that mean Muslim is s church lead by Peter? Or Catholic proven to be lie, some time say A some time B.

HOW IN THE WORLD REASONABLE PERSON BELIEVE THIS INCONSISTENT DICTRINE?

The two possible explanations I can think of

Catholics are really stupid.

Or

There's something that you're not understanding.

I don't mean that post to sound harsh, Jackson my brother. You might be interested in this. The part in lumen gentium where Muslims are mentioned is section 16, I believe.

Just a little earlier, in section 14, it says this.

"...the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation."