Cessation of Gifts

[DavidTree]

Not entirely sure but the first chapter of John possibly offers some clarity -

John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made In him was life and the life was the light of men. And the light shined in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

I would surmise that the confusion was undone by John the Baptist who bore witness to the light - Jesus Christ.

Here is where God proved to the world, HE is in control and HE divides the error of man and restores the Path to Heaven.

And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.

Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”

Astounded and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

But others mocked them and said, “They are drunk on new wine!”

 

[DavidTree]

You, my friend, are rather confused about two different topics. If indeed the Holy Spirit merely "steps aside" while Satan and the Antichrist take TOTAL CONTROL of this world, where exactly does He step aside? And if the Church (the Temple of God) is in Heaven at that time, where do you think the Holy Spirit will be? And those who are in Christ cannot and will not reject the Holy Spirit.

But that does not mean that they will not reject modern tongues, which are not even biblical tongues. There are millions of Christians who do not speak in tongues, and have no interest in modern tongues.

You err when you say the Church is in Heaven at that time - Do yo reject the word's of Christ???

And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”

 

[Gardenias]

I agree, he will confuse his enemies and the unrighteous but he will not be a source of confusion to his children.

Miss Lucy,
May I inquire a personal question to you?
Love the Narnia avatar you've chosen!
I see you as a young not more than 35 y.o.if that.
Yet you have much more knowledge and wisdom of some twice your suspected age.
Your personality to me comes across as bubbly,energetic and fun.
Its been sweet reading your post and getting a wise and playful perspective!

 

[tourist]

But others mocked them and said, “They are drunk on new wine!”

There are those that would say that the new wine was grape juice and not wine. Of course, I can't see how grape juice would be intoxicating and cause someone to become drunk.

 

[tourist]

either way = prove your position by Scripture only = Thank You

= You're welcome.

 

[DavidTree]

There are those that would say that the new wine was grape juice and not wine. Of course, I can't see how grape juice would be intoxicating and cause someone to become drunk.

The tower of Babel had people gathered in one place, one language, one goal = reach unto Heaven.

Now in Acts ch 2 do you see = And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.

Now the confusion was not confusion at all but amazement, for they ALL heard the Truth with no langauge barriers

Jacobs Ladder reached down from Heaven to earth in Acts 2

 

[DavidTree]

= You're welcome.

i made a correction in post #66

Nimrod(antichrist) and Tower of Babel = sinful man attempting to reach up to Heaven - God said, NO

God's Love reached down from Heaven and said YES thru Christ and the baptism of the Holy Spirit(HS7) = Jacob's Ladder

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Miss Lucy,
May I inquire a personal question to you?
Love the Narnia avatar you've chosen!
I see you as a young not more than 35 y.o.if that.
Yet you have much more knowledge and wisdom of some twice your suspected age.
Your personality to me comes across as bubbly,energetic and fun.
Its been sweet reading your post and getting a wise and playful perspective!

You are charming. And I would be happy to trade my real age in for my 'suspected age'
I enjoy a lot of your posts too.
I'm 54. Maybe the avatar I chose is a giveaway that I wish I was a child again.
I liked a lot of C. S. Lewis's works, not just the Narnia novels but the adult fiction & theological writings as well.

 

[JTB]

Dear Lucy - this is not your IMHO - You are the WINNER for you found the TRUTH = clear as Day

When we are Face to Face with our LORD - the Gifts come off = WHY?

When is a man and woman Face to Face?

When they are enter into their Marriage Chamber.

For while we are on earth we are longing for Him and the Resurrection - to fully put on Christ

I always figured 'completeness' came when Jesus returns and restores creation to it's pre-fall state.

Thus, miracle healings will cease when people are no longer getting sick.

Likewise, tongues will cease when a single pure language (which was lost at Babel) is restored. Which makes me wonder if the 'tongue' isn't actually our native language.

 

[arpon]

Preacher John McArthur, Baptists, Dispensation and others had declared that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, most especially speaking in Tongues, had CEASED with the departure of the Apostles.

Could this be true? If , Yes, then speaking in tongues would be counterfeit and even demonic.

God is not the Author of confusion and somebody is in great error.

PROVE IT - by the Word of God and do so by obeying the LORD's Commandments:

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ Matthew 18:15-17

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

The Two or Three Witnesses are found in Scripture concerning this Challenge of TRUTH.

I do not understand why do we have to prove that speaking in tongue is ceased or vice versa? Its not in the scripture that it is ceased for everybody. When its needed God will provide. If God stop it for some reason, for some person for a time let it be. If God gives anything than let God give. He can bring good out of evil too. Why this kind of thing bother us? Instead of that lets celebrate and share the love of Jesus with them who don't know.

 

[DavidTree]

I do not understand why do we have to prove that speaking in tongue is ceased or vice versa? Its not in the scripture that it is ceased for everybody. When its needed God will provide. If God stop it for some reason, for some person for a time let it be. If God gives anything than let God give. He can bring good out of evil too. Why this kind of thing bother us? Instead of that lets celebrate and share the love of Jesus with them who don't know.

NO - It is NOT in the Scripture that the ministry of Holy Spirit Gifts ceased = this is a lie from satan that has divided the Body of Christ.

Anyone who preaches against the Gifts speaks against Christ and His Church

Therefore the onus is upon everyone to know the and Obey the TRUTH

 

[Gardenias]

You are charming. And I would be happy to trade my real age in for my 'suspected age'
I enjoy a lot of your posts too.
I'm 54. Maybe the avatar I chose is a giveaway that I wish I was a child again.
I liked a lot of C. S. Lewis's works, not just the Narnia novels but the adult fiction & theological writings as well.

I am pleased you responded as well as surprised at your age!
Always keep that spirit and stay young and fanciful!
It is a sweet blessing!🤗

 

[CS1]

Preacher John McArthur, Baptists, Dispensation and others had declared that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, most especially speaking in Tongues, had CEASED with the departure of the Apostles.

Could this be true? If, Yes, then speaking in tongues would be counterfeit and even demonic.

The Two or Three Witnesses are found in Scripture concerning this Challenge of TRUTH.

What I find funny with some of these PASTORS WHO HAVE CORRECTLY POINTED OUT THE FOOLISHNESS OF SOME CHARISMATIC AND PENTACOSTELS abusing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. To that, I say amen.

barking like a dog and prophesying against the very word of God. and fleecing the flock taking money.

BUT
Many of these same "pastors " wear $1000 suites as they provided an expository message and explain how the gifts have ceased from only three verses in the whole bible found in 1cor 13:8-10. Yet they will rip out the full context and other text that speak against this very mindset that does not agree with their opinion.

What does the text say?

first, the context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit starts in Chapter 12 through chapter 14.

In Proper Hermeneutics that our dear Baptist who I will leave nameless failed to tell you is:

1. 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 are known as unit chapters because they are all contextual on the topic of "gifts of the Holy Spirit established in chapter 12 when Paul said NOW concerning the Gifts of the Holy Spirt in verse ONE.

Paul's: teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and nowhere in the text does he ever say the gifts are no longer needed or have stopped. That is interjected by those who have a bias on the gifts. And charismatics are no better if they too use only a verse here or there to prove they are for today.

What must we do? We must observe the full context of the topic which starts chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians and move through chapter 14.

A VERSE NUMBER IS NOT THE STARTING OF THE CONTEXT.
The numbering of verses was done to help us read yet the context can be starting in a different chapter and not ending with a verse.


chapter 12 says the opening context and topic are provided.


1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Paul is saying right here the topic

then he says :

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus [c]accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Paul did not say YOU are carried away by dumb idols, he said you were and led to do so. Paul says there, I am telling you how to know what is of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) when he is speaking or one says Thus saith the Lord if it is True :

validation of the Holy Spirit is:

#1 verse 3 "no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus [c]accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

now, what is the gifts? And what are they used for?

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gift of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

This is the opening to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. No language here is even suggesting the gifts are going to stop or will not be for all. Chapter 12 says nothing to that effect, it is "correction" and what they do when they are used correctly.

We know the gifts are from the Holy Spirit and what the gifts are because they are listed; now what do they do?
they are gifts for the body and they are many of them, not just the nine gifts what gifts are listed in chapter 12?

1. There are diversities of gifts
2. There are differences of ministries

"the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:"


Through the Holy Spirit

1. the word of wisdom
2. word of knowledge
3. faith
4. gifts of healings
5. the working of miracles
6. prophecy
7. discerning of spirits
8. different kinds of tongues
9. the interpretation of tongues

for what reason?

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

are these the only gifts in Chapter 12?

No.

28 "And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. "


what are the Best Gifts? The ones you need at the time for Comfort, exhortation, edification, teaching, preaching, praying for the sick, or sending out to other areas to church build, the kingdom work.

Nothing being said is suggesting this is going to stop.

Chapter 13 says :

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

this is not saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended or will end it is saying IF you use the gifts without LOVE YOU ARE NOTHING!

• use them for a show, they are nothing
• use them to make money they are nothing
• use them for self-gain they are nothing

Use the gifts of the Holy Spirt in any other way than Love to God and man is NOTHING!

in context to love this is what love is and is not:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Not one thing here says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased or will. in almost two chapters.

Then right here below, is the attempt to say they have :

8 Love never fails.(this is the context) But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

nothing here says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. nothing.

Chapter 14 opens with :

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. Doesn't sound like they are stopping contextually.

the last verse of this chapter says :

39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

What is the application? from our observation, and interpretation I conclude :
from chapters 12 through 14 we see

1. The teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and how to verify if they are real.
2. What they are for and what are they, as listed in the text
3. The reason for them
4. How to use them in love and what they are not for or how to be used
5. We are told to desire them and use them in love
6. Be mature Be in order and discipline
7. Final desire them.

Nothing on they have ceased or will cease or stopped or not for today. It is not in the word of God. and you can't build a position on three verses in the Word of God when the three chapters do not support the outcome one desires.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today your accepting or not doesn't mean they have stopped.

 

[DavidTree]

What I find funny with some of these PASTORS WHO HAVE CORRECTLY POINTED OUT THE FOOLISHNESS OF SOME CHARISMATIC AND PENTACOSTELS abusing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. To that, I say amen.

barking like a dog and prophesying against the very word of God. and fleecing the flock taking money.

BUT
Many of these same "pastors " wear $1000 suites as they provided an expository message and explain how the gifts have ceased from only three verses in the whole bible found in 1cor 13:8-10. Yet they will rip out the full context and other text that speak against this very mindset that does not agree with their opinion.

What does the text say?

first, the context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit starts in Chapter 12 through chapter 14.

In Proper Hermeneutics that our dear Baptist who I will leave nameless failed to tell you is:

1. 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 are known as unit chapters because they are all contextual on the topic of "gifts of the Holy Spirit established in chapter 12 when Paul said NOW concerning the Gifts of the Holy Spirt in verse ONE.

Paul's: teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and nowhere in the text does he ever say the gifts are no longer needed or have stopped. That is interjected by those who have a bias on the gifts. And charismatics are no better if they too use only a verse here or there to prove they are for today.

What must we do? We must observe the full context of the topic which starts chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians and move through chapter 14.

A VERSE NUMBER IS NOT THE STARTING OF THE CONTEXT.
The numbering of verses was done to help us read yet the context can be starting in a different chapter and not ending with a verse.


chapter 12 says the opening context and topic are provided.


1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Paul is saying right here the topic

then he says :

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus [c]accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Paul did not say YOU are carried away by dumb idols, he said you were and led to do so. Paul says there, I am telling you how to know what is of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) when he is speaking or one says Thus saith the Lord if it is True :

validation of the Holy Spirit is:

#1 verse 3 "no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus [c]accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

now, what is the gifts? And what are they used for?

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gift of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

This is the opening to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. No language here is even suggesting the gifts are going to stop or will not be for all. Chapter 12 says nothing to that effect, it is "correction" and what they do when they are used correctly.

We know the gifts are from the Holy Spirit and what the gifts are because they are listed; now what do they do?
they are gifts for the body and they are many of them, not just the nine gifts what gifts are listed in chapter 12?

1. There are diversities of gifts
2. There are differences of ministries

"the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:"


Through the Holy Spirit

1. the word of wisdom
2. word of knowledge
3. faith
4. gifts of healings
5. the working of miracles
6. prophecy
7. discerning of spirits
8. different kinds of tongues
9. the interpretation of tongues

for what reason?

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

are these the only gifts in Chapter 12?

No.

28 "And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. "


what are the Best Gifts? The ones you need at the time for Comfort, exhortation, edification, teaching, preaching, praying for the sick, or sending out to other areas to church build, the kingdom work.

Nothing being said is suggesting this is going to stop.

Chapter 13 says :

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

this is not saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended or will end it is saying IF you use the gifts without LOVE YOU ARE NOTHING!

• use them for a show, they are nothing
• use them to make money they are nothing
• use them for self-gain they are nothing

Use the gifts of the Holy Spirt in any other way than Love to God and man is NOTHING!

in context to love this is what love is and is not:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Not one thing here says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased or will. in almost two chapters.

Then right here below, is the attempt to say they have :

8 Love never fails.(this is the context) But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

nothing here says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. nothing.

Chapter 14 opens with :

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. Doesn't sound like they are stopping contextually.

the last verse of this chapter says :

39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

What is the application? from our observation, and interpretation I conclude :
from chapters 12 through 14 we see

1. The teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and how to verify if they are real.
2. What they are for and what are they, as listed in the text
3. The reason for them
4. How to use them in love and what they are not for or how to be used
5. We are told to desire them and use them in love
6. Be mature Be in order and discipline
7. Final desire them.

Nothing on they have ceased or will cease or stopped or not for today. It is not in the word of God. and you can't build a position on three verses in the Word of God when the three chapters do not support the outcome one desires.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today your accepting or not doesn't mean they have stopped.

Dear Brother, i firmly AGREE with you - you may want to remove your Red X since it is contrary to the very things you stated, in which i am completely in agreement with.

The opening of this thread was not to say the Gifts are not for Today - but for those who say that to prove it by Scripture.

Therefore i did not state the actual valid Proof but gave the open door for the Brethren to search the scriptures for the Truth, for themselves.

This builds greater confidence in one's heart and mind.

 

[CS1]

Dear Brother, i firmly AGREE with you - you may want to remove your Red X since it is contrary to the very things you stated, in which i am completely in agreement with.

The opening of this thread was not to say the Gifts are not for Today - but for those who say that to prove it by Scripture.

Therefore i did not state the actual valid Proof but gave the open door for the Brethren to search the scriptures for the Truth, for themselves.

This builds greater confidence in one's heart and mind.

the red X I removed because think it takes away FROM YOUR POINT. But my message is not about you agreeing it is of those who do not yet have no biblical support.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The opening of this thread was not to say the Gifts are not for Today - but for those who say that to prove it by Scripture.

What happens around you is not PROVEN by Scripture but what is seen, observed, and assessed or analyzed. And the history of the Church has an important bearing on this matter.

But you continue with your specious argument about "what is seen in Scripture", then add another layer of nonsense by talking about two or three witnesses. What about the hundreds of thousands of witnesses who are faithful Christians and do not speak in tongues? You wish to ignore them and dismiss them out of hand so that you can continue with this nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that modern tongues are an aberration and the majority of Christians do not speak in tongues. So now you should prove by linguistic analysis that you are speaking an actual human language and not gibberish. No one in Acts 2 spoke gibberish.

 

[DavidTree]

What happens around you is not PROVEN by Scripture but what is seen, observed, and assessed or analyzed. And the history of the Church has an important bearing on this matter.

But you continue with your specious argument about "what is seen in Scripture", then add another layer of nonsense by talking about two or three witnesses. What about the hundreds of thousands of witnesses who are faithful Christians and do not speak in tongues? You wish to ignore them and dismiss them out of hand so that you can continue with this nonsense.

The fact of the matter is that modern tongues are an aberration and the majority of Christians do not speak in tongues. So now you should prove by linguistic analysis that you are speaking an actual human language and not gibberish. No one in Acts 2 spoke gibberish.

i specified that the other Witness is in Scripture.

i like the gibberish of the Holy Spirit = HE knows what to say and when and where to say it.

“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.
“Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say.
For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.” - Luke 12:10-12

 

[Gardenias]

What I find funny with some of these PASTORS WHO HAVE CORRECTLY POINTED OUT THE FOOLISHNESS OF SOME CHARISMATIC AND PENTACOSTELS abusing the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. To that, I say amen.

barking like a dog and prophesying against the very word of God. and fleecing the flock taking money.

BUT
Many of these same "pastors " wear $1000 suites as they provided an expository message and explain how the gifts have ceased from only three verses in the whole bible found in 1cor 13:8-10. Yet they will rip out the full context and other text that speak against this very mindset that does not agree with their opinion.

What does the text say?

first, the context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit starts in Chapter 12 through chapter 14.

In Proper Hermeneutics that our dear Baptist who I will leave nameless failed to tell you is:

1. 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 are known as unit chapters because they are all contextual on the topic of "gifts of the Holy Spirit established in chapter 12 when Paul said NOW concerning the Gifts of the Holy Spirt in verse ONE.

Paul's: teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and nowhere in the text does he ever say the gifts are no longer needed or have stopped. That is interjected by those who have a bias on the gifts. And charismatics are no better if they too use only a verse here or there to prove they are for today.

What must we do? We must observe the full context of the topic which starts chapter 12 of 1 Corinthians and move through chapter 14.

A VERSE NUMBER IS NOT THE STARTING OF THE CONTEXT.
The numbering of verses was done to help us read yet the context can be starting in a different chapter and not ending with a verse.


chapter 12 says the opening context and topic are provided.


1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Paul is saying right here the topic

then he says :

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus [c]accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Paul did not say YOU are carried away by dumb idols, he said you were and led to do so. Paul says there, I am telling you how to know what is of the Spirit (Holy Spirit) when he is speaking or one says Thus saith the Lord if it is True :

validation of the Holy Spirit is:

#1 verse 3 "no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus [c]accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit."

now, what is the gifts? And what are they used for?

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gift of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

This is the opening to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. No language here is even suggesting the gifts are going to stop or will not be for all. Chapter 12 says nothing to that effect, it is "correction" and what they do when they are used correctly.

We know the gifts are from the Holy Spirit and what the gifts are because they are listed; now what do they do?
they are gifts for the body and they are many of them, not just the nine gifts what gifts are listed in chapter 12?

1. There are diversities of gifts
2. There are differences of ministries

"the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:"


Through the Holy Spirit

1. the word of wisdom
2. word of knowledge
3. faith
4. gifts of healings
5. the working of miracles
6. prophecy
7. discerning of spirits
8. different kinds of tongues
9. the interpretation of tongues

for what reason?

But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

are these the only gifts in Chapter 12?

No.

28 "And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. "


what are the Best Gifts? The ones you need at the time for Comfort, exhortation, edification, teaching, preaching, praying for the sick, or sending out to other areas to church build, the kingdom work.

Nothing being said is suggesting this is going to stop.

Chapter 13 says :

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

this is not saying the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ended or will end it is saying IF you use the gifts without LOVE YOU ARE NOTHING!

• use them for a show, they are nothing
• use them to make money they are nothing
• use them for self-gain they are nothing

Use the gifts of the Holy Spirt in any other way than Love to God and man is NOTHING!

in context to love this is what love is and is not:

4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Not one thing here says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased or will. in almost two chapters.

Then right here below, is the attempt to say they have :

8 Love never fails.(this is the context) But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

nothing here says the gifts of the Holy Spirit have ceased. nothing.

Chapter 14 opens with :

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. Doesn't sound like they are stopping contextually.

the last verse of this chapter says :

39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

What is the application? from our observation, and interpretation I conclude :
from chapters 12 through 14 we see

1. The teaching of the gifts of the Holy Spirit and how to verify if they are real.
2. What they are for and what are they, as listed in the text
3. The reason for them
4. How to use them in love and what they are not for or how to be used
5. We are told to desire them and use them in love
6. Be mature Be in order and discipline
7. Final desire them.

Nothing on they have ceased or will cease or stopped or not for today. It is not in the word of God. and you can't build a position on three verses in the Word of God when the three chapters do not support the outcome one desires.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today your accepting or not doesn't mean they have stopped.

 

[CS1]

i specified that the other Witness is in Scripture.

i like the gibberish of the Holy Spirit = HE knows what to say and when and where to say it.

“And anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but to him who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven.
“Now when they bring you to the synagogues and magistrates and authorities, do not worry about how or what you should answer, or what you should say.
For the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.” - Luke 12:10-12

The idea the those who say they are Christian result in secular terms to discern Spiritual gifts is odd.

For example, those who cry for modern secular humanistic approaches to understanding the word of God like

linguistic analysis = ability to understand gifts of the Holy Spirit because the human mind cannot comprehend a gift of the Holy Spirit?

So this linguistic analysis is going to call a gift of the Holy Spirit gibberish Because Their understanding is unfruitful as the WORD OF GOD says it is.

" The majority of Christians do not speak in tongues". As if this opinion is correct and in the Knowing of "The majority Christian". Where? at your church? LOL.

So when you bring a biblical text appropriately they attack you then have to say it is of the devil and seek Non-Christian belief to compare the gifts of the Holy Spirit too. Yet the very truth is no pentacostel ever opened a book or sought the occult to receive a gift from the Holy Spirit only the word of God. yet these cessationists go outside the word of God to disprove the word of God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit are laughable.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Preacher John McArthur, Baptists, Dispensation and others had declared that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, most especially speaking in Tongues, had CEASED with the departure of the Apostles.

Could this be true? If , Yes, then speaking in tongues would be counterfeit and even demonic.

God is not the Author of confusion and somebody is in great error.

PROVE IT - by the Word of God and do so by obeying the LORD's Commandments:

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ Matthew 18:15-17

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

The Two or Three Witnesses are found in Scripture concerning this Challenge of TRUTH.

I would say as long as Jesus is present with his disciples the only thing that is lacking is the faith of those who hear about the spiritual gifts

“Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if the church taught the gospel we would be seeing more evidence of faith

“I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭

faith and it’s evidence comes when you have believers of the gospel. Spiritual gifts manifest through those believers

“If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we hear of thkngs like gifts of the spirit and someone writes a book about how they ceased , it’s bringing instant doubt into our hearts . Rather than hearing and believing we start to consider with our intelligence and reason ourselves out of the simplicity of hearing and believing the gospel

faith has ceased in many the gospel remains the exact same and will always apply and be true