CESSATIONISM AND HEALING

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Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
On second thought, I understand why you are asking others to do this work.
Try to reply to the posts addressed to you with relevance point by point. Do not poke your nose into other posts and reply in a stupid manner!
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
You are free to go and do that work, sir....Please do not lay the work on others. If you want to teach these countries, feel free sir to do this since it has been laid in your heart to do so...
Simply because your country has medical insurance do not teach christians to trust in doctors as their Messiah / mediator for healing from God. Bible dies not teach that.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,895
670
113
Do not beg the question. Read my post again which gives a sound thrashing to your erroneous speculations!!
Well, for an Follower of Christ you sounds very unfriendly to an Lady.
Maby you should work on this?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
6,703
1,878
113
Mathew 9:12: "When Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are healthy have no need for a physician, but those who are sick do".

Jesus said the above as an analogy to prove sinners need Him. He didn't say the sick need the doctor to heal apart from faith in Christ's atonement which includes healing.

You are foolishly wanting to deny healing through faith in atonement and establish the medical doctor as the mediator/Messiah for bringing healing from God. Don't post bankrupt ideas.
he was speaking of truth. If you remember the women with an issue of blood went to many doctors and spent all she had. Did Jesus say to her " why did you go to the doctor"? No, he healed her because of her faith. Luke was Doctor and still practiced as a Christian and wrote two books of the Bible. Your point is unfounded and unbiblical.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,838
583
113
Simply because your country has medical insurance do not teach christians to trust in doctors as their Messiah / mediator for healing from God. Bible dies not teach that.
No sir, you speak with opinions that are not TRUTHS sir...they are just your own personal opinions...and they remain just that...your own personal opinions....
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,838
583
113
Try to reply to the posts addressed to you with relevance point by point. Do not poke your nose into other posts and reply in a stupid manner!
Sir, your heart and how one sees it is relevent. Especially if you claim to belong to CHRIST and are HIS WITNESS...if you are, you should be reflecting HIS image...and I don´t see it...

I am sorry.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
garee,

Itś actually if HE does not wash us, we have no part with HIM...

I think you might have meant, take up your cross and follow me when you said, if we do not suffer with HIM we have no part with HIM...but the actual verse for what you said is: if HE does not wash us., we have no part with HIM..not if we do not suffer with HIM...
That is the way I also was thinking of . I am offering another approach I think it comes to the same conclusion

I think the picture of foot washing indicates the gospel of Christ is applied. The gospel a picture of suffering .

In our persecution we suffer and plant the seed in a hope Christ will be formed in others . Some work gets burnt up. Not all hear the gospel and believe God. .But our suffering does not add to his .That would make his grace without effect.

The work of sufferings is in respect to the Father and Son working as one. It is never attributed to the creature.

Those who have "no faith" and walk after the flesh, the pagan foundation of natural man . Out of sight out of mind. They look to satisfy the things of the flesh as some sort of self edifying work. The same idea a a sign gift not to be confused with a spiritual gift (unseen)

Not singling out Catholics but thy do make a good example of those who have no faith as it is written.

Catholiscim does it boldly . Any suffering no matter how minor is even a headache is attributed to some unknown (purgatory) account kept by a Queen of heaven. As never paid in full. Only the Queen received the fullness of grace.

Making all things written in the law and prophets without effect. (sola scriptura)

For instance Colossians informs us of those who have "no faith" . Catholisicim like many doctrines turn it as a understanding upside down as inspired from Rome. And say the verse below supports their idea of no faith needed just believe the oral traditions as a law of their fathers . Then they can continue to attribute their own self edifying sufferings to the endless doctrine of purgatory. No ones knows how much sufferings they did have up till there last breath and not end of sufferings. No goal of faith, a new body. .

Christians received the end of their new born again faith from the beginning.

Because the father of lies is not subject to the gospel . He has no faith. No vision . No knowledge.

Until the last day he will be trying to murder Christians with his lies .Not knowing who or what the Son of man is. But rather just blindly(no faith) kill them all. This is even after Jesus left. The arrows of the wicked ones are meant for Jesus even today . He hurls those poison arrows at those who follow after Christ, accusing them day and night .

Again Catholiscim say purgatory is the fill up station.


Colossians 1:23-25 King James Version (KJV) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,838
583
113
Be on topic. Don't digress!
Actually sir, it is you who were off topic. Once again, I will state what I said when you responded to my post and digressed and gave more information than what was asked....I asked you to read Hebrews...that in there you will see that sufferings are NOT, as you claimed...ungodly...

Not that GOD desires us to suffer, but we will suffer...and in this...in these seasons of suffering, there is ONE THING that we need to do sir...and that is to keep our eyes on our LORD...

You are a hindrance to that...
 
Oct 24, 2018
473
87
28
The issue isn't healing but whether Christ's atonement includes healing for all who believe including those having serious physical challenges.
That is a false statement. And the two "by His stripes" healing are misused out of the 2 contexts which indicate spiritual healing not physical healing.

'and for your further understanding in relation to the others you judged wrongly:
Hebrews-- ETRSF (10 pgs.) -- https://app.box.com/s/daj6d9nwwwj8ix7o2wrinu90puwdydfp

Acts in ERTSF with questions (42 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/8lqg6hhbhtdob6tpkf988fbfie2fargq
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
Nonsense. Read the follows:
Luke 21:36: "Therefore be watchful all the time, asking that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man."

It is God's will to ESCAPE TERRIBLE persecutions including death listed in the chapter.

If you want to suffer and die, go ahead but don't spread a lie it's never God's will to protect from persecutions.
The wage of sin is still death, all die.

I think I understand where you are coming from. We must be careful how we hear. The treasure of His Spirit that does work in those who have His faith in them not of them

No power is attributed to dead flesh.

Those who have no faith, they create a oral tradition and start spreading lies. They even have Peter walking on water as if the work was in respect to the corrupted flesh of Peter and not the unseen power of the gospel called faith.

We know the commandment "Come" enabled Peter to do the will . Like Lazarus "rise" words of life words of Spirit .

It, the faith of Christ in them worked to both to will and do the good pleasure of God. When the Spirit of Christ directed the storm Peter got his eyes off Jesus and began to sink. Peter from my experiences is the best example . He got his eyes of Jesus for different reasons (a serial denier) . Having just been reinstated having repented . Peter hearing the gospel (spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God) and denying Christ again. Follow me. And rather then following Jesus Peter went of to town. saying John would not die. (your kind of idea )

He became jealous of John and again started as oral tradition . Got his eyes off Jesus. Jesus had to work to dismiss the lying oral tradition of men . He informs us that if every time Christ did the work of expose the lies of the god of this world and wrote them down .The whole world would fall short of the space needed . We have the word of God. one warning you would think would be enough.

The power of faith is not of us . Nobody is walking on water.

This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21: 19-25

The Catholics who also glory in the flesh (no faith use that to support .turning things upside down.

It is why they chose Peter and not John to usurp the authroity of our father in heaven. Jesus as the Son of man forgave Peter of his blasphemy serval times . That 33 year window closed when Jesus disappeared. Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost today cannot be forgiven

Are you Catholic?
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
Well, for an Follower of Christ you sounds very unfriendly to an Lady.
Maby you should work on this?
It is not unfriendliness to a lady but unfriendliness towards heresy.

Regarding healing you deny Christ's atonement and and therefore not a follower of Christ but you are a follower of medical doctor as your Messiah/mediator.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
The wage of sin is still death, all die.

I think I understand where you are coming from. We must be careful how we hear. The treasure of His Spirit that does work in those who have His faith in them not of them

No power is attributed to dead flesh.

Those who have no faith, they create a oral tradition and start spreading lies. They even have Peter walking on water as if the work was in respect to the corrupted flesh of Peter and not the unseen power of the gospel called faith.

We know the commandment "Come" enabled Peter to do the will . Like Lazarus "rise" words of life words of Spirit .

It, the faith of Christ in them worked to both to will and do the good pleasure of God. When the Spirit of Christ directed the storm Peter got his eyes off Jesus and began to sink. Peter from my experiences is the best example . He got his eyes of Jesus for different reasons (a serial denier) . Having just been reinstated having repented . Peter hearing the gospel (spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God) and denying Christ again. Follow me. And rather then following Jesus Peter went of to town. saying John would not die. (your kind of idea )

He became jealous of John and again started as oral tradition . Got his eyes off Jesus. Jesus had to work to dismiss the lying oral tradition of men . He informs us that if every time Christ did the work of expose the lies of the god of this world and wrote them down .The whole world would fall short of the space needed . We have the word of God. one warning you would think would be enough.

The power of faith is not of us . Nobody is walking on water.

This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21: 19-25

The Catholics who also glory in the flesh (no faith use that to support .turning things upside down.

It is why they chose Peter and not John to usurp the authroity of our father in heaven. Jesus as the Son of man forgave Peter of his blasphemy serval times . That 33 year window closed when Jesus disappeared. Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost today cannot be forgiven

Are you Catholic?
Natural death is different from death by persecution according to Luke 21:36. Don't confuse in an idiotic manner.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
That is a false statement. And the two "by His stripes" healing are misused out of the 2 contexts which indicate spiritual healing not physical healing.

'and for your further understanding in relation to the others you judged wrongly:
Hebrews-- ETRSF (10 pgs.) -- https://app.box.com/s/daj6d9nwwwj8ix7o2wrinu90puwdydfp

Acts in ERTSF with questions (42 pgs.)-- https://app.box.com/s/8lqg6hhbhtdob6tpkf988fbfie2fargq
So your healing comes from God but not through Christ the mediator but through mediators like a medical doctor? If so, regarding healing, you are not a Christian.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
Actually sir, it is you who were off topic. Once again, I will state what I said when you responded to my post and digressed and gave more information than what was asked....I asked you to read Hebrews...that in there you will see that sufferings are NOT, as you claimed...ungodly...

Not that GOD desires us to suffer, but we will suffer...and in this...in these seasons of suffering, there is ONE THING that we need to do sir...and that is to keep our eyes on our LORD...

You are a hindrance to that...
Don't be hindrance to christians to grow in faith because not sufferings but faith pleases God.

Sufferings is to enable a christian grow in faith. Sufferings is not the end. The people in Hebrews 11 suffered by faith.

Don't blabber.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
he was speaking of truth. If you remember the women with an issue of blood went to many doctors and spent all she had. Did Jesus say to her " why did you go to the doctor"? No, he healed her because of her faith. Luke was Doctor and still practiced as a Christian and wrote two books of the Bible. Your point is unfounded and unbiblical.
Nonsense. She was not healed by doctors. Shame on your doctors.

She was healed by faith in Christ's messiahship/mediatorship. But for healing, you deny Christ's messiahship!

Luke didn't practised medicine or promoted the denial of Christ's mediatorship for healing.

Don't blabber.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
That is the way I also was thinking of . I am offering another approach I think it comes to the same conclusion

I think the picture of foot washing indicates the gospel of Christ is applied. The gospel a picture of suffering .

In our persecution we suffer and plant the seed in a hope Christ will be formed in others . Some work gets burnt up. Not all hear the gospel and believe God. .But our suffering does not add to his .That would make his grace without effect.

The work of sufferings is in respect to the Father and Son working as one. It is never attributed to the creature.

Those who have "no faith" and walk after the flesh, the pagan foundation of natural man . Out of sight out of mind. They look to satisfy the things of the flesh as some sort of self edifying work. The same idea a a sign gift not to be confused with a spiritual gift (unseen)

Not singling out Catholics but thy do make a good example of those who have no faith as it is written.

Catholiscim does it boldly . Any suffering no matter how minor is even a headache is attributed to some unknown (purgatory) account kept by a Queen of heaven. As never paid in full. Only the Queen received the fullness of grace.

Making all things written in the law and prophets without effect. (sola scriptura)

For instance Colossians informs us of those who have "no faith" . Catholisicim like many doctrines turn it as a understanding upside down as inspired from Rome. And say the verse below supports their idea of no faith needed just believe the oral traditions as a law of their fathers . Then they can continue to attribute their own self edifying sufferings to the endless doctrine of purgatory. No ones knows how much sufferings they did have up till there last breath and not end of sufferings. No goal of faith, a new body. .

Christians received the end of their new born again faith from the beginning.

Because the father of lies is not subject to the gospel . He has no faith. No vision . No knowledge.

Until the last day he will be trying to murder Christians with his lies .Not knowing who or what the Son of man is. But rather just blindly(no faith) kill them all. This is even after Jesus left. The arrows of the wicked ones are meant for Jesus even today . He hurls those poison arrows at those who follow after Christ, accusing them day and night .

Again Catholiscim say purgatory is the fill up station.


Colossians 1:23-25 King James Version (KJV) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Catholicism denies faith for salvation as you deny faith in Christ's mediatorship for healing. Regarding healing you are no different to a catholic.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
Sir, your heart and how one sees it is relevent. Especially if you claim to belong to CHRIST and are HIS WITNESS...if you are, you should be reflecting HIS image...and I don´t see it...

I am sorry.
You deny Christ's atonement for healing and claim & pretend you are in the image of Christ? Don't make silly jokes!!
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
No sir, you speak with opinions that are not TRUTHS sir...they are just your own personal opinions...and they remain just that...your own personal opinions....
I stated:
"Simply because your country has medical insurance do not teach christians to trust in doctors as their Messiah / mediator for healing from God. Bible does not teach that".

Now, answer to that. Don't beg the question.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
6,703
1,878
113
Mathew 9:12: "When Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are healthy have no need for a physician, but those who are sick do".

Jesus said the above as an analogy to prove sinners need Him. He didn't say the sick need the doctor to heal apart from faith in Christ's atonement which includes healing.

You are foolishly wanting to deny healing through faith in atonement and establish the medical doctor as the mediator/Messiah for bringing healing from God. Don't post bankrupt ideas.
you are buffoon and I am going place you on ignore you should move on so you don't end up leaving CC God bless.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
37
28
you are buffoon and I am going place you on ignore you should move on so you don't end up leaving CC God bless.
Buffoons like you beg the question being unable of responding biblically!!!