CESSATIONISM AND HEALING
- Thread starter Sudakar
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
(Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.)
This is the misunderstood verse that some think by the cross we don't need doctors.
One ping for @Angela53510
This is the misunderstood verse that some think by the cross we don't need doctors.
One ping for @Angela53510
-
2
-
2
- Show all
No that is wrong as well.
In essence faith is believing in something a doctrine or religion or theology of some sort according to the world, but according to God faith is simple it is our trust in him that is it end game set match.
I have many and I mean many illnesses and damage in and of my body includeding brain damage twice from both my parents and cancer, in my life for almost all of it I have only known suffering pain and damage of all kinds mental physical and even spiritual but what do I do when I talk to God about all this? Do I ask him to heal me? yes but I also know that it is only because of all the sickness brain damage and damage of all kinds that I am the way I am today.
So yes while one day I hope for healing I thank God for all my hardships illnessses and sickness.
Most people have no idea how lucky they are, unlike me most people have the brain capacity to be able to drive, work have a place of their own and do things for themselves.
but because of my brain damage I have a difficult time doing anything on my own I will always need help to survive in life I am unable to drive I cannot hope to own a place of my own because I can barely remember to test my own blood sugar or take my medicine that keeps me alive, I can work and I love manual labor but I have to walk everywhere so I am very limited and yet in all this and in all that I am lacking it made me the person I am.
I am not like other people not just by function but also by nature I am childlike I have a happy go lucky nature and and am frail looking and even look like a child you would never know I was 29 and the world especially my own family sees me as weak in every sense of the word but I still thnak God because for everyway I was made weak in this world he made me strong in his.
So you see not all healing is done because he has plans we know not of
In essence faith is believing in something a doctrine or religion or theology of some sort according to the world, but according to God faith is simple it is our trust in him that is it end game set match.
I have many and I mean many illnesses and damage in and of my body includeding brain damage twice from both my parents and cancer, in my life for almost all of it I have only known suffering pain and damage of all kinds mental physical and even spiritual but what do I do when I talk to God about all this? Do I ask him to heal me? yes but I also know that it is only because of all the sickness brain damage and damage of all kinds that I am the way I am today.
So yes while one day I hope for healing I thank God for all my hardships illnessses and sickness.
Most people have no idea how lucky they are, unlike me most people have the brain capacity to be able to drive, work have a place of their own and do things for themselves.
but because of my brain damage I have a difficult time doing anything on my own I will always need help to survive in life I am unable to drive I cannot hope to own a place of my own because I can barely remember to test my own blood sugar or take my medicine that keeps me alive, I can work and I love manual labor but I have to walk everywhere so I am very limited and yet in all this and in all that I am lacking it made me the person I am.
I am not like other people not just by function but also by nature I am childlike I have a happy go lucky nature and and am frail looking and even look like a child you would never know I was 29 and the world especially my own family sees me as weak in every sense of the word but I still thnak God because for everyway I was made weak in this world he made me strong in his.
So you see not all healing is done because he has plans we know not of
-
2
-
1
- Show all
I would say, according you, the Honor is for the person who has the faith, but not to God who gives the faith. You believe in your faith and you try to dominante Gods will. You can call it also Manipulation. You ignore the will of God, otherwise you would his word in James 5.
Also you ignore that your claim nowhere in the New Testament is taught to other Christians.
How can you speak from Gods sovereignity, if you ignore him?
Also you ignore that your claim nowhere in the New Testament is taught to other Christians.
How can you speak from Gods sovereignity, if you ignore him?
-
1
- Show all
[QUOTE="Sudakar, post: 4248270, member:
M: First read and understand Isa 53 as a chapter on Christ's atonement rather than blabber nonsense in the name of hermeneutics.
![/QUOTE]
Just going to deal with this, because it is a perfect example of 2 things:
1. Why we need to read every word of the Bible, not just a chapter or passage!
2. Why you need to know hermeneutics, or how to interpret the Bible. You obviously don't know that:
Hermeneutics= Bible interpretation
Every line from the Bible you have quoted and then interpreted & explained, is hermeneutics.
In this case, you actually made some progress away from your faulty eisegesis and bad interpretations. You stopped quoting one proof text, and said to read the whole chapter! Bravo!
However, you really do need to read all of Isaiah to find out what it is about. From chapter 1, it is the prophet Isaiah calling to the people, to tell them how sinful they are. Isaiah 1 describes this from Start to finish.
"Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy Oneof Israel
and turned their backs on him." Isa. 1:4
God uses Isaiah to tell the nation of Israel that they are an evil, disobedient and wretched people. Isaiah tries to warn Israel, and point them back to righteousness and serving God. And Isaiah is Not exempt from this.
"Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.” Isaiah 6:5-7
Isaiah realizes he is also sinful, and the seraphim cleanses him with a burning coal. Every single chapter of Isaiah, and for that matter, all the prophets, is a warning about sin. Even if a chapter doesn't use those words, it is the theme and central binding idea of the book.
Isaiah 53 is a prophecy describing how Jesus will suffer in our place.
"5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed." Isaiah 53:5.
This famous proof text of Word Faith people is about what?? About how our rebellious deeds and sins made Jesus take our punishment on the cross, to heal our sin sickness, the topic of all of Isaiah.
This chapter is NOT about us! It is not about perfect healing when you pump up your faith enough, that a puny God is forced to do your bidding and answer your prayer for healing!
Instead, it is about a sovereign God who was whipped and died on the cross to take our place so we might have eternal life.
It really is heinous to take the obvious meaning which is found in all of Isaiah, and all the Bible, and take a couple verses and claim it is about healing. Well, it is about healing our sins, which have broken and damaged us.
Finally this is the second last verse of Isaiah 53, where the purpose of the chapter, the book of Isaiah and the Bible explain it.
"Having suffered, he will reflect on his work,
he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done.
“My servant will acquit many,
for he carried their sins." Isa 53:11
Once again it is about how Jesus acquitted us of our sins! Nothing to do with physical healing, but spiritual healing for our many sins.
I challenge you to read the whole Bible, so you can find out that you have been led astray! Certainly read all of Isaiah and see what it is about. You will quickly find it is not about physical healing, but healing from our sins, through Jesus' coming sacrifice on the cross.
And since you are using bad hermeneutics, find out how to do it correctly, instead of the mess you make of the Bible.
Don't bother sending me another one of those Y/M answers. I know the Bible much better than you, studied Word Faith starting in the 1980's, and totally rejected it as a false and damaging doctrine. You don't even read Greek or Hebrew, there is nothing you can do to convince me to go back to a heresy I rejected 30 years ago!
M: First read and understand Isa 53 as a chapter on Christ's atonement rather than blabber nonsense in the name of hermeneutics.
![/QUOTE]
Just going to deal with this, because it is a perfect example of 2 things:
1. Why we need to read every word of the Bible, not just a chapter or passage!
2. Why you need to know hermeneutics, or how to interpret the Bible. You obviously don't know that:
Hermeneutics= Bible interpretation
Every line from the Bible you have quoted and then interpreted & explained, is hermeneutics.
In this case, you actually made some progress away from your faulty eisegesis and bad interpretations. You stopped quoting one proof text, and said to read the whole chapter! Bravo!
However, you really do need to read all of Isaiah to find out what it is about. From chapter 1, it is the prophet Isaiah calling to the people, to tell them how sinful they are. Isaiah 1 describes this from Start to finish.
"Woe to the sinful nation,
a people whose guilt is great,
a brood of evildoers,
children given to corruption!
They have forsaken the Lord;
they have spurned the Holy Oneof Israel
and turned their backs on him." Isa. 1:4
God uses Isaiah to tell the nation of Israel that they are an evil, disobedient and wretched people. Isaiah tries to warn Israel, and point them back to righteousness and serving God. And Isaiah is Not exempt from this.
"Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar. 7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.” Isaiah 6:5-7
Isaiah realizes he is also sinful, and the seraphim cleanses him with a burning coal. Every single chapter of Isaiah, and for that matter, all the prophets, is a warning about sin. Even if a chapter doesn't use those words, it is the theme and central binding idea of the book.
Isaiah 53 is a prophecy describing how Jesus will suffer in our place.
"5 He was wounded because of our rebellious deeds,
crushed because of our sins;
he endured punishment that made us well;
because of his wounds we have been healed." Isaiah 53:5.
This famous proof text of Word Faith people is about what?? About how our rebellious deeds and sins made Jesus take our punishment on the cross, to heal our sin sickness, the topic of all of Isaiah.
This chapter is NOT about us! It is not about perfect healing when you pump up your faith enough, that a puny God is forced to do your bidding and answer your prayer for healing!
Instead, it is about a sovereign God who was whipped and died on the cross to take our place so we might have eternal life.
It really is heinous to take the obvious meaning which is found in all of Isaiah, and all the Bible, and take a couple verses and claim it is about healing. Well, it is about healing our sins, which have broken and damaged us.
Finally this is the second last verse of Isaiah 53, where the purpose of the chapter, the book of Isaiah and the Bible explain it.
"Having suffered, he will reflect on his work,
he will be satisfied when he understands what he has done.
“My servant will acquit many,
for he carried their sins." Isa 53:11
Once again it is about how Jesus acquitted us of our sins! Nothing to do with physical healing, but spiritual healing for our many sins.
I challenge you to read the whole Bible, so you can find out that you have been led astray! Certainly read all of Isaiah and see what it is about. You will quickly find it is not about physical healing, but healing from our sins, through Jesus' coming sacrifice on the cross.
And since you are using bad hermeneutics, find out how to do it correctly, instead of the mess you make of the Bible.
Don't bother sending me another one of those Y/M answers. I know the Bible much better than you, studied Word Faith starting in the 1980's, and totally rejected it as a false and damaging doctrine. You don't even read Greek or Hebrew, there is nothing you can do to convince me to go back to a heresy I rejected 30 years ago!
-
3
-
2
- Show all