Challenging the theory of interpretive hearing in Acts chapter two

[p_rehbein]

This link to the Article explaining the Upper Room and Pentecost difference

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrJ...cost.php/RK=2/RS=1WPoFFBCyKDM9J71DAXILpYGmdE-

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Also, I'm assuming that the people were all devout "Jews" but the Bible just says "devout men."

However, the good news wasn't yet given to the Gentiles yet, but there were probably Gentiles there in Jerusalem that day.........hmmmm

Was it just Jews that heard the disciples speak in their own language or Gentiles also that heard?

yes they were all Jews

Gospel goes first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Doubt if Gentlles were taking part in a Jewish festival, (Shavout) it was one festival that attendance was required

 

[Sketch]

They were taken aback to hear all of the disciples speaking in their individual tongue because they knw the men were "unlearned,2 that is to say not educated beyond their trades.

Thanks for your reply, but that seems like a weak argument. It would also support the standard reading which is that they were all "... tongues as the Spirit enabled them." - Acts 2:4

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Thanks for your reply, but that seems like a weak argument. It would also support the standard reading which is that they were all "... tongues as the Spirit enabled them." - Acts 2:4

It wasn't an argument, you asked some questions and I answered. If you only want your own answers then why ask?
and my answers are correct

 

[Sketch]

Hi thanks .I would offer first and foremost we look to the foundation of the fulfillment of Acts .A old testament law that had to do with the unbelieving Jew (no faith) that mocked God by refusing to hear His prophecy. But rather did whatsoever their own mouth as oral traditions declared and in doing so made the word of God without effect and so no evil in doing so .

With mocking deriding (stammering) lips God mocked those who mocked Him as a sign to confirm or a sign against them that were not hearing God's word. God therefore would no longer be bringing prophecy in Hebrew alone (the language they mocked God with.)

Thanks for joining us per my invitation to you. And for your detailed response. I really appreciate the effort.

For your opening point, would this not also be fulfilled just as well with speaking in tongues as with interpretive hearing?
It doesn't really make that point unless I am missing something here.

 

[Sketch]

It wasn't an argument, you asked some questions and I answered. If you only want your own answers then why ask?
and my answers are correct

I don't want answers for answers sake, I am looking for solid evidence.

 

[Sketch]

They all spoke in other languages to include Hebrew as God worked in them to make it possible for them to hear the gospel and believe to the salvation of their soul.Three thousand new converts at the same time from many different nation heard the interpretation of God's revelation.

But how is this evidence of interpretative hearing? (rather than tongues)

 

[Sketch]

What bewildered them is previously they could not understand each other and they wondered why God was now bringing his interpretation as prophecy in other languages other than Hebrew.

Again, how is this evidence of interpretative hearing? (rather than tongues)

 

[Sketch]

Yes, hearing prophecy in other languages and not Hebrew alone as up till that time... now came the fulfillment of the old testament prophecy (Isaiah 28)

Maybe we should focus on that passage. Are there clues there to support your view?

 

[Sketch]

The unconverted listeners were converted when they heard the gospel in their own tongue.3000 souls entered paradise all in the twinkling of the eye.

I've heard this argued two ways:
1) They were already saved (devout men).
2) They were saved instantly upon hearing.

I disagree with both of these. because Peter said:
“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." - Acts 2:38

Therefore, they had NOT YET received the Holy Spirit. Thus a manifestation is unlikely. (but not impossible)

 

[Sketch]

I pray not to offend anyone.

Try it, you'll like it. lol
Follow Jesus example.

Matthew 15:12
Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

 

[Sketch]

[for me anyway] I thank God the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for hiding His Truth from the wise and prudent (those that would make use of scholastic achievement in an endeavor to think and speak above that which is written), and instead reveals His Truth to the common, practical person who simply believes His Word.

Which side of this topic are you on? Weigh in please.

 

[garee]

Thanks for joining us per my invitation to you. And for your detailed response. I really appreciate the effort.

For your opening point, would this not also be fulfilled just as well with speaking in tongues as with interpretive hearing?
It doesn't really make that point unless I am missing something here.

The tongues is God's interpretation as a revelation. They hearing believed his interpretation as one non seen "The Holy place of God" and not one of men seen as shadow of the unseen Holy place. No form can stand there .It would be considered the abomination of desecration standing in the place of faith our understanding comes from that unseen place

The interpretive hearing is not a revelation as a interpretation of men. We are warned (1 John 3:27 )of those who say we need a seen man to teach or interpret for us, Rather than the word of God as it is written the Holy Spirit teaches us as it does we abide in Him the teacher.He will bring to our mind the things he has taught us . Its one of those first things first. Put no trust in the interpretation of men as the witness of men .But rather in the word of God as the word of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[garee]

But how is this evidence of interpretative hearing? (rather than tongues)

The evidence is interpretative hearing, giving us God's understanding. Called it that work in us not of us the "hearing of faith". Previously having no faith we now can hear .Having begun to understand God, God continhues to works in a person to the end by the same hearing of God's faith.

Faith previously having none is the gift that restores our souls by which we can believe God not seen, giving us a new spirit that could never die

Galatians 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[JaumeJ]

Thanks for your reply, but that seems like a weak argument. It would also support the standard reading which is that they were all "... tongues as the Spirit enabled them." - Acts 2:4

When the Holy Spirit entered into me, God gave me a message. I understood it in words but there were no words. This occurred at other times in my walk given me. I know tht God talks to us at times without words, there is no voice, yet it is well understood dand heard.

 

[Sketch]

The tongues is God's interpretation as a revelation. They hearing believed his interpretation as one non seen "The Holy place of God" and not one of men seen as shadow of the unseen Holy place. No form can stand there .It would be considered the abomination of desecration standing in the place of faith our understanding comes from that unseen place

The interpretive hearing is not a revelation as a interpretation of men. We are warned (1 John 3:27 )of those who say we need a seen man to teach or interpret for us, Rather than the word of God as it is written the Holy Spirit teaches us as it does we abide in Him the teacher.He will bring to our mind the things he has taught us . Its one of those first things first. Put no trust in the interpretation of men as the witness of men .But rather in the word of God as the word of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I agree with what you are saying in general. But it seems to have no relevance to the subject at hand. Sorry if I am being thick-headed, but I just don't see it. Again, I appreciate your effort and bravery to take what appears to be the minority view here. I see a few more posts. I will continue to hear what you have to say. Thanks.

 

[Sketch]

The evidence is interpretative hearing, giving us God's understanding. Called it that work in us not of us the "hearing of faith". Previously having no faith we now can hear .Having begun to understand God, God continhues to works in a person to the end by the same hearing of God's faith.

Faith previously having none is the gift that restores our souls by which we can believe God not seen, giving us a new spirit that could never die

Galatians 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Again, you are speaking in generalities that have no direct bearing on the passage in question.
I mean no disrespect, but I need to ask you directly. If you do indeed believe this, where is the basis of it?
What you have stated does not undo what is plainly stated in the passage. I just don't see it.

Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

 

[Sketch]

When the Holy Spirit entered into me, God gave me a message. I understood it in words but there were no words. This occurred at other times in my walk given me. I know tht God talks to us at times without words, there is no voice, yet it is well understood dand heard.

That's a good word. And I agree.
But it has no bearing on the current question.
How do we confirm that what you are describing is what was happening in Acts chapter two?
What you describe is a bit esoteric. The record in Acts two is very upfront and out in the open.

 

[JaumeJ]

That's a good word. And I agree.
But it has no bearing on the current question.
How do we confirm that what you are describing is what was happening in Acts chapter two?
What you describe is a bit esoteric. The record in Acts two is very upfront and out in the open.

Because I have experienced this, I know it is quite easy for our Father to cause a person to open his moutha and speak in a manner that all would understand him no matter their native language. Nothing esoteric about this happening. God's ways are not an's ways.

 

[Sketch]

Because I have experienced this, I know it is quite easy for our Father to cause a person to open his moutha and speak in a manner that all would understand him no matter their native language. Nothing esoteric about this happening. God's ways are not an's ways.

Again, I agree. And certainly anything is possible with God.
But it has no bearing on the current question. Consider this...

Do we see evidence anywhere else in scripture of what you are describing?
I think what you are describing falls more under that category of prophecy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning spirits.

It just occurred to me that the interpreting of tongues is not really about interpretive hearing at all.
I asked someone who had the gift of the interpretation of tongues how it worked.
He said it was exactly like prophecy. You do not know ahead of time what is coming.

You do not hear it in advance. God prompts you to speak, you open your mouth and the prophecy comes forth.
The same is true for interpretation. You hear the tongues, God prompts you to speak, you open your mouth and the interpretation comes forth. Someone else related that it is not always word for word either. The interpretation may came as an expanded statement from the tongues.