Choosing a Church

[feedm3]

Parts of it were pretty word for word, but other parts were definately put in his own words, albeit saying the same thing. I don't see what's wrong with quoting another source that has done work, that one agrees with though.


I use sources other than myself for various things, and I make a conscience effort to cite them. It is no different in principle from when we discuss theology, and "quote' as it may be, verses of scripture.

Me either as long as you cite them and do not try and pass them off as your own words. And something that long should be cited.

 

[feedm3]

I'd be willing to hazard a bet that Santo Subito is more well read in the Scriptures than you are. Honestly, you likely didn't even read it before dismissing it out of hand.

wow so many assumptions in so short a comment.

You bet what you want on someone elses scripture knowledge, you know nothing about me at all.

I read the whole thing, obviously you didnt read my response, would not have been able to know what was written without reading it.

What are you anyway his assuming side kick?

with as many assumptions as you make, i assume you cannot tell who is more "well read".

 

[SantoSubito]

wow so many assumptions in so short a comment.

You bet what you want on someone elses scripture knowledge, you know nothing about me at all.

I read the whole thing, obviously you didnt read my response, would not have been able to know what was written without reading it.

What are you anyway his assuming side kick?

with as many assumptions as you make, i assume you cannot tell who is more "well read".

This reminds me of the regional Scripture competitions I used to compete in as a child. I only ever won once but you should have seen the look on everyones faces when they announced the winner was from St. Joseph's Catholic Church. It's deep Baptist country where I live and they take their knowledge of the Bible seriously, I imagine getting beat by a Catholic (they assume Catholics don't read the Bible) was about the worst thing that they could conceive of.

But thats it for my side story.

 

[Bloodwashed]

This reminds me of the regional Scripture competitions I used to compete in as a child. I only ever won once but you should have seen the look on everyones faces when they announced the winner was from St. Joseph's Catholic Church. It's deep Baptist country where I live and they take their knowledge of the Bible seriously, I imagine getting beat by a Catholic (they assume Catholics don't read the Bible) was about the worst thing that they could conceive of.

But thats it for my side story.

Thanks for your side story My Brother! It put a big smile on my face! God Bless!--Mark--

 

[trust_in_the_name]

When one looks for a church, does one want a church that believes exactly as he, or she, does, or does one want a church that will provide a group of loyal friends?

Just find a church that's in agreement with the Bible and you're good to go. You could find a group of loyal friends in the Mormon church, or the aformentioned "church of Christ," or any number of other churches that don't agree with the Bible, but that's of secondary importance.

 

[feedm3]

Just find a church that's in agreement with the Bible and you're good to go. You could find a group of loyal friends in the Mormon church, or the aformentioned "church of Christ," or any number of other churches that don't agree with the Bible, but that's of secondary importance.

Great and what church do you attend that in in agreement with the Bible? Tell us all so we can know where to go.

 

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

To the OP, come and watch this video about why the Eastern Orthodox Church is the true one:

[youtube]CJhPlmznA[youtube/]

 

[SantoSubito]

And it was a very long post, but it must be to attempt to explain away such plain statements. Your argument does not justify men having religious titles such as "father" because of the following:

First, The context of Matt 23 is speaking of the pride of the religious leaders of that day. Jesus is showing such titles used in a religious sense are prideful and forbids it.

Of course he is not condemning the use of the word used in the secular sense, as we are told to "honor mother and father".

This is not a hyperbole because he is showing exactly what the religious leaders were being called by, plainly warning us not to do so.

The word "rabbi" is not used anywhere else in the New Testament except in Matthew 23. Though it is rendered "master" or "rabbi" in other places, it is not the same word your are describing in Matthew 23.

The word you are speaking of is kathēgētēs, and the context Jesus spoke this word, it is used as a religious title.

When we find the word "rabbi" meaning "teacher" in other places like in the Book John is rendered from a different Greek word, for example:
Joh 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?

The word used in this place and every other besides Matt 23 is "didaskalos"
This is not used as a title. It may be a description of what the person does as a teacher, but it would be wrong for me to say, "i now would like to be known as Teacher or Master" because that would be a religious title.

Heb 5:12 says "for when the time comes that ye ought to be teachers...."
This is not the word found in Matt 23, he not saying, "when the time comes that ye should be known as Teacher" but that teaching is what they should have been doing but they were immature.

For men to call themselves "Father" in a religious sense, making it their name and title is doing exactly what Christ forbids.

We are not to call any man "Father" in that sense.

"Our father Abraham" is another sense to show descent, he was not known as "Father Abraham".

Clearly it is a sin for any to take on such a title.

That's strange because Paul as was stated in the article describes his spiritual relationship to Timothy and others in father/son terms. Paul is acknowledging the fact that he is a spiritual father to Timothy, a man he has taught, trained, and built up in the Faith. That is what our Priests are to us, they are our spiritual fathers responsible for bringing us up in the faith and training us in it's practice; our Priest hears our confessions and guides us so that we can conquer our sins.

 

[feedm3]

That's strange because Paul as was stated in the article describes his spiritual relationship to Timothy and others in father/son terms. Paul is acknowledging the fact that he is a spiritual father to Timothy, a man he has taught, trained, and built up in the Faith. That is what our Priests are to us, they are our spiritual fathers responsible for bringing us up in the faith and training us in it's practice; our Priest hears our confessions and guides us so that we can conquer our sins.

Its really not strange, Paul was not violating Matt 23:9, he was not known to Timothy as "Father Paul", so still this does not justify us using religoius titles that are clearly forbidden by the Lord. The text of Matt 23:9 is not a hyperbole because there is no reason in the text to assume such, it is in very clear language and in contrast to what the religious leaders were doing at that time.
Man should not be called Father, just as man cannot forgive sins, nor be above what is written.

 

[SantoSubito]

Its really not strange, Paul was not violating Matt 23:9, he was not known to Timothy as "Father Paul", so still this does not justify us using religoius titles that are clearly forbidden by the Lord. The text of Matt 23:9 is not a hyperbole because there is no reason in the text to assume such, it is in very clear language and in contrast to what the religious leaders were doing at that time.
Man should not be called Father, just as man cannot forgive sins, nor be above what is written.

Yeah and when we call a man Father "blank" we are describing how they, like Paul was to Timothy, are our spiritual fathers. It's not simply an honorific term.

 

[feedm3]

Yeah and when we call a man Father "blank" we are describing how they, like Paul was to Timothy, are our spiritual fathers. It's not simply an honorific term.

Yeah it only goes against this plain written command of Christ:

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Well, I guess you will have to explain that to God, I will just not do it and not worry about.

 

[feedm3]

To the OP, come and watch this video about why the Eastern Orthodox Church is the true one:

[youtube]CJhPlmznA[youtube/]

Just wondering why you call Michael the Archangel a saint, I do not read of Him being a saint anywhere in the New Testament, really I am just wondering, never heard that before.

 

[SantoSubito]

Just wondering why you call Michael the Archangel a saint, I do not read of Him being a saint anywhere in the New Testament, really I am just wondering, never heard that before.

Anyone, Angel or Human, that dwells in the presence of God is considered a Saint.

 

[feedm3]

Anyone, Angel or Human, that dwells in the presence of God is considered a Saint.

Ok, scripture please?

 

[MesMom]

Great answer!

 

[feedm3]

Ok, scripture please?

still waiting on this scripture to qualify that answer

 

[StMichaelTheArchangel]

still waiting on this scripture to qualify that answer

The reason why angels are considered Saints is because they are true servants of God. Their closeness to God, their high status, and their position. That is why there are angels who are Saints.
It is a Biblical Teaching. Both St Gabriel and St Michael stood in the presence of God and do miraculous works in the Bible. It says in Luke 1:19 "And the angel answered him, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news."


St Michael is recorded doing this, though this is an Apocryphal writing which Jude is quoting from,


Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when taking issue with the devil, was arguing about the body of Moses, dared not to bring a railing accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

 

[feedm3]

The reason why angels are considered Saints is because they are true servants of God. Their closeness to God, their high status, and their position. That is why there are angels who are Saints.
It is a Biblical Teaching. Both St Gabriel and St Michael stood in the presence of God and do miraculous works in the Bible. It says in Luke 1:19 "And the angel answered him, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news."


St Michael is recorded doing this, though this is an Apocryphal writing which Jude is quoting from,


Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when taking issue with the devil, was arguing about the body of Moses, dared not to bring a railing accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Ok I see where your coming from, thank you for clearing that up for me.
During the time I was waiting for a response I looked the word up - it comes from hagios - which is translated as "holy" or "saints", and since the word is found in this expression "...coming with his holy angels" they are in fact being called saints.
Pretty cool - learn something everyday, thanks again.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

Great and what church do you attend that in in agreement with the Bible? Tell us all so we can know where to go.

Sure. I go to a Christian church.

26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

I would recommend the same for anyone who wants to follow Christ.

 

[kujo313]

John 6:55 NIRV

"My body is real food. My blood is real drink."

Jesus never said pretend food -- Catholics follow him precisely

If to someone you love, you could give not just your life, but part of your very Heart, would it not be a wonderful gift? GOD has that ability and he does it EVERY day in the Eucharist. Remember when he was ascending into Heaven he told the apostles this....
Matthew 28:20 CJB

and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age." --- His presence in the Eucharist everywhere and everyday! Read the proof His very HEART tissue and blood
Miracle of Lanciano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Uh... zombies? Flesh eaters? Wait for one in your congregation to die just to fire up the BBQ?

Of course not!

Jesus called Himself a gate and a vine. Yet, I don't see anybody bringing a gate or a vine to church on Sunday morning and saying it's Jesus.

When Paul described the "last supper", it was called a MEMORIAL. "Do this in memory of Me". Do what? Remember how Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb and died for our sins.

Funny how it's not mentioned that the disciples carried one particular piece of bread around in a gold case and named it "Jesus".

But to actually keep it in your heart and mind that while we were yet still sinners, Christ died for us.

While seeing a gate, remember that Jesus is THE Gate. While looking at a flock of sheep, remember that Jesus is OUR Shepherd. While seeing a grape vine, remember that Jesus is the TRUE Vine.

It all centers around Jesus and not a wafer in a glass case paraded around like a celebrity or an idol.