Chosen by God - A study in Election

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#81
Please before you reel of a bunch of individual verses , could you at least provide the context within the passages as to why your interpretating the verses that way ? Simply quoting the verse doesn't explain the verse .
I have a better idea. Please listen to the sermons that I posted in the OP. All three of them. The sermons are also printed in text form online. I finished those three the last couple of days while driving, as I have the Grace to You app on my phone.

It's a beautifully comprehensive thesis, Highly recommended.
 
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lenna

Guest
#82
  • Election is -----> TRUE
  • All who are Elect inherit eternal life
  • Only God truly knows who the Elect are. Simply saying that you believe in Jesus Christ therefore you are elect doesnt quite make the grade due to the fact of the possibility of Apostasy.
  • To those who call theselves believers, to those who actually believe, we have the following verse: 2 Peter 1v10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
  • What are these things mentioned by Peter in 2 Peter 1v10 above? > Here they are: 1 Peter 2v5-9 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Running around with an OSAS mindset, yet not understanding that obedience to God is a commandment, is a sign you possibly may not in fact be elect at all.

utter nonsense and an excellent point by point explanation of why most people reject Calvinism

Calvinism appeals to certain people because it defines their life for them so that they do not have to do so

the Bible is clear that salvation is only through the blood of Christ and whosoever will may call upon His name for salvation

@ cv5 as for this thread, why on earth would you start this up again when there are threads running page after page about this very thing?

as for MacArthur, he has basically consigned millions to hell, in his mind, because of his anti-gifts rhetoric
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#83
Amen.........................God foreknew but did not predestine by some imaginary irresistible grace.
I disagree, as that position is not Scripturally tenable. God is not simply an observer waiting for people to react to the message of salvation. That would superimpose man's will upon Gods will.

No, but the Bible is crystal-clear on the matter: that all redeemed souls have been saved from eternity past, long before they were born, by the eternal and overarching plan of God, all of this set forth before the foundation of the world.

Eph 1:4
For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love

It doesn't get any more clear than that.
 
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lenna

Guest
#84
An ignorant response describing a false deity.
God does what He pleases isa46;9_11
well of course He does, only He does not do it haphazardly as you would like to apparently believe

God has defined Himself and He does not go back on His word. He does not act out of character and He does not
do the bidding of Calvinists

no need to call others ignorant especially since you have provided every reason for people to believe you have described yourself in so doing

it is a sad fact that Calvinists often resort to name calling or attempting to discredit all who question them. that, is not a godly attribute
 
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lenna

Guest
#85
To deny that all people were saved before the foundation of the world is blasphemy. However it just so happens that people are born after the foundation of the world and subsequently God gives them the gift of belief, the gift of faith, the gift of perseverance, the gift of good works.

The undeniable fact of believers being foreordained before the foundation of the world is boilerplate. Paul (and other NT writers) is crystal-clear on this matter, it is beyond refutation.

blasphemy, eh? Calvinism is not a biblical issue and God is not going to accuse anyone of their salvation being blasphemous because they believe the blood of Christ washes away their sins whether they trust in Calvin or not

get a grip. your claim of blasphemy is really off the wall.

what you think are facts, are no more than misinterpreted scripture. you claim doctrine by only looking at certain verses that are most often quoted out of context, while ignoring or twisting other scripture that denies what you say

whosoever will is anyone. not only those who believe as do you. and you know that. it just makes you uncomfortable
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#86
It’s not an either/or answer but rather both. God saved me by grace when I heard of Jesus and believed.

When you hear something you make a decision as to whether or not to believe it. That’s choice. And God gets all the glory.
I agree....... it is both. But behind this choice stands an inalienable fact: believers are chosen and foreordained before the foundation of the world.

IMO, God has the right to keep his counsel and Will hidden at times. This is one of those times. That is why we preach the gospel to every living creature, because we do not know who will be saved.

But to deny the Scripture and say that God is not choosing not foreordaining is blasphemous.

John 15:16
You did not chose Me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and you should bear fruit, and your fruit should remain, so that whatever you might ask the Father in My name, He may give you.

The Apostiles may have been confused up to the point of this statement....but not thereafter!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,151
7,208
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#87
blasphemy, eh? Calvinism is not a biblical issue and God is not going to accuse anyone of their salvation being blasphemous because they believe the blood of Christ washes away their sins whether they trust in Calvin or not

get a grip. your claim of blasphemy is really off the wall.

what you think are facts, are no more than misinterpreted scripture. you claim doctrine by only looking at certain verses that are most often quoted out of context, while ignoring or twisting other scripture that denies what you say

whosoever will is anyone. not only those who believe as do you. and you know that. it just makes you uncomfortable
Aaahhhmmmm.........As I have stated before I am not a Calvinist.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#88
I have a better idea. Please listen to the sermons that I posted in the OP. All three of them. The sermons are also printed in text form online. I finished those three the last couple of days while driving, as I have the Grace to You app on my phone.

It's a beautifully comprehensive thesis, Highly recommended.
You have to back up yourself what you believe from the scriptures, and not just post a sermon as an answer.
 
May 31, 2020
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#89
believers are chosen and foreordained before the foundation of the world.
Does this mean some people are chosen to work in God’s ministry or some people are chosen for salvation and only those who are chosen have salvation?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#90
I agree....... it is both. But behind this choice stands an inalienable fact: believers are chosen and foreordained before the foundation of the world.

IMO, God has the right to keep his counsel and Will hidden at times. This is one of those times. That is why we preach the gospel to every living creature, because we do not know who will be saved.

But to deny the Scripture and say that God is not choosing not foreordaining is blasphemous.

John 15:16
You did not chose Me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and you should bear fruit, and your fruit should remain, so that whatever you might ask the Father in My name, He may give you.

The Apostiles may have been confused up to the point of this statement....but not thereafter!
Whos Jesus speaking to in John 15.16 ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#91
I have a better idea. Please listen to the sermons that I posted in the OP. All three of them. The sermons are also printed in text form online. I finished those three the last couple of days while driving, as I have the Grace to You app on my phone.

It's a beautifully comprehensive thesis, Highly recommended.
It does not mean people will agree

It would be faulty to assume everyone who listens will become calvinists.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#93
The cross a 'nevertheless '? why was it necessary if you were already saved ? Was Jesus just an errand boy for the frozen chosen ? To awaken them at the right time with hindu enlightenment?
Jesus is the only preexisting elect before the foundation of the world. Not calvnists . The bible is about Jesus not you and your elect.
Its the elect of God. Not the elect of the elect. Born of God not of men.

The cross is one part of the three days and nights in a place of sufferings. Heart of the earth or belly of the whale. accompanied with the suffering, the will to cry out for strength to finish the work.

The cross demonstration had a different purpose. The first part of the demonstration between the father and Son of man Jesus in the garden was promised (Isaiah 53)

I would offer the cross was one of the three demonstrations of the lamb of God who was( past tense) slain from the foundation and not the standpoint of promised demonstration of the unseen work of faith, pointing back to the foundation.

Again three different kinds of demonstrations all having a purpose to the end of one work of two working in perfect harmony and mutual submission to one another. .

1) The garden demonstration the witness of God . The propmised demonstration spoken of in of Isaiah 53 . The father and the son alone working. The Son sufferings unto death, drinking the cup of wrath (death) as the father struck him with his rod and then strengthened the Son to finish the work of the two. A work of God. the peace of God two working as one. Not the work of the hands of men as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood.

I would offer below in order to fulfill the prophecy of the two working as one The lord put the witness of mankind asleep. Three time Jesus desired their work of prayer to strength the sufferings he was bearing .Three times the father denied him and put the disciples back to sleep .

Mathew 26:36-46 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is wea He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

The third time he woke them up in order to move to the second part of the three day demonstration . (2) the witness of men the view of natural man the gospel

Emphasizing the promise in Isaiah 53 . God is not served by human hands . He moves in us moving us with him.
We do not accredit any of the work of salvation to the corrupted dead hands of mankind. He gives the breath of life.

2)The Cross demonstration.... the witness of men crucifying after a Satan inspired mob. Satan having no part of the sufferings between the father and the Son .Jesus of his own volition offered up his spirit . No creature took his spiritual life from Jesus. Again when he said; "it is finished" he then offered it up to the father who gave it.

3)The demonstration of faith. . . . the demonstration sealed from the eyes of man. The unseen witness of the Father and Son finishing the last part of the demonstration. . . "the rest" from their labor of love. Awaking to the new creation the day he said let there be children of light. Sunday the new era of ceremonial sabbaths as shadow of the eternal not seen .
A day we can share our daily bread, the true fast. ,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#94
It is double predestination that is a false doctrine. Election is however boilerplate.
It is clear from Rom 9 that God is not choosing those to be damned. Why? God does not need to......they are condemned already (John 3:18).

This passage indicates that God is not moving on the condemned, He is simply leaving them as they are. Text does say that God (He) is the one who has "prepared some beforehand for glory"

Rom 9
What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 9 is about god choosing isreal not individuals
if we get the context wrong we misinterpret the whole passage
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#95
But when ? we were not saved when Jesus was on the Cross or when He said " it is finished " . We were not saved at the resurrection either . We are only saved AFTER we Believe .
Yet our salvation was set in stone before time began
that’s election
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#96
Am I reading this correctly?..God cannot know who truly has saving grace?....are you joking....God knows everything....he knows what I’m gonna do,before I’ve even done it......my belief.
You misread what I said

I did not claim it. My point was if Chris is right then god does not know
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#97
You have to back up yourself what you believe from the scriptures, and not just post a sermon as an answer.
OK
Eph 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Rom 8:29
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

2Tim 1:9
Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Prov 16:4
The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

1 Pet 1:20
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you

Acts 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#98
Can you explain how Jesus himself made it perfectly clear in John 3 that no one has any choice whatsoever regarding their second birth?
He did?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Christians are saved in eternity past and have nothing whatsoever to say about it. Nevertheless the cross, itself being foreordained, was an absolute necessity.
So I do not have to believe. I am saved already.

Shaking my head
 
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