Chosen by God - A study in Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
Paul did not receive the Holy Spirit until he believed.

Oh so Paul was selected from eternity past ...so then ... the elect are never under God's Wrath and
the faithless are God‘s chosen/elect

No one is elect (a descriptor) until they have faith.
You go right ahead and throw Ephesians 1:3-14, and innumerable other scriptures in the trashcan lady. That's your problem not mine. God help you.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
You go right ahead and throw Ephesians 1:3-14, and innumerable other scriptures in the trashcan lady. That's your problem not mine. God help you.
Are you agitated?

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

As per usual Calvinists do not want to pay attention to the key words in that passage.

When it states God chose us in Him, it literally means He chose US that are in HIM, not that He chose to put us in Him in the first place.
 
4

49

Guest
You go right ahead and throw Ephesians 1:3-14, and innumerable other scriptures in the trashcan lady. That's your problem not mine. God help you.
Have a question...Peter pretty much preached to the Jews/Israelites, and Paul the Gentiles, is that correct?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
....just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
Ephesians 1:4

No need I understand according to what Jesus and the apostles taught.

When it states God chose us in Him, it literally means He chose US that are in HIM, not that He chose to put us in Him in the first place.

IF an ELECT people were IN CHRIST from the death & resurrection of Christ, then before they had faith, they were NEVER "children of wrath LIKE THE REST OF MANKIND"
That must be the worst attempt at exegesis that I have ever seen. Seriously that is the worst.
It doesn't deserve any comment, It deserves to be completely ignored.
 
4

49

Guest
Spurgeon was truly the champion of the doctrine of election. Nobody did it better. Well maybe Arthur W. Pink did as good a job as he.

Both of these men are absolutely 100% correct. Their teaching on the matter was flawless and beyond reproach.
Have to admit, am really seeing things in a different light, and Spurgeon seems like he was truly gifted in understanding The Word. Have read two sermons this evening, and am looking forward to more. Can only imagine what it was like to hear him in person.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Such as the word KOSMOS and make it equal elect.......

Thou shalt NOT die <--one word makes it a lie and to change the word of God to fit one's theology = a lie!!!

World in John 3:16 does not equal ELECT!
Apparently, some people have no problem making God the big sports captain in the sky .....picking His team and deliberately refusing others.... the Good News for the few.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
Have a question...Peter pretty much preached to the Jews/Israelites, and Paul the Gentiles, is that correct?
In the general sense yes, however there were definitely all kinds of exceptions.

John MacArthur is of the opinion (for rather technical reasons) that 1 Peter was in fact written for and adressed to the gentiles who were dispersed, not the Jewish diaspora.

Gal 2:8
For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
Have to admit, am really seeing things in a different light, and Spurgeon seems like he was truly gifted in understanding The Word. Have read two sermons this evening, and am looking forward to more. Can only imagine what it was like to hear him in person.
That is a great idea I should download some Spurgeon sermons myself. I will start with sermons on election. The last few days I have heard juicy chunks and the most pertinent portions of Spurgeons sermons on election, but not the entire thing. The last time I heard an entire Spurgeon sermon that I downloaded was probably a year ago. Time to get busy!

Oh yes Arthur W. Pink also. Go for it. The man is a genius.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
Have to admit, am really seeing things in a different light, and Spurgeon seems like he was truly gifted in understanding The Word. Have read two sermons this evening, and am looking forward to more. Can only imagine what it was like to hear him in person.
What have we here! I think we hit the lottery.

https://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/elect.htm
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
You are not a Calvinist... but you read die hard hyper Calvinists.

Funny.
Its your attempt at exegesis that is funny.

Arthur W. Pink however is NOT funny. Quite the contrary. He has distinguished himself most honorably, has few peers, and deserves our utmost respect.

You may of course harbor feelings of contempt for him as you see fit.
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
Don't go about twisting once again.. the choice is the ability to believe upon hearing the Gospel ... believe what?

Believe in Christ for salvation.

The bible is filled with people who chose to believe in God!!

42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

Who exercised belief and expressed it ... the thief and Jesus responded subsequently to that belief.
His premise is almost identical to Muslims who say "show me where Jesus says "I am God, worship me." It's a false objection built on spurious premises and if met the goalposts will be moved immediately.
 
4

49

Guest
In the general sense yes, however there were definitely all kinds of exceptions.

John MacArthur is of the opinion (for rather technical reasons) that 1 Peter was in fact written for and adressed to the gentiles who were dispersed, not the Jewish diaspora.

Gal 2:8
For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles.

Thank you. My reason for asking that question is this - when Paul was in prison in Rome, and wrote to the Ephesians, he was writing to Gentiles. So, in the first Chapter, starting in verse 4, he is implying that the Gentiles were chosen as well, which would mean that there is more than one meaning for chosen? For Israel, of course, God's chosen people, but not all chosen for Salvation? As for the Gentiles, those chosen as in chosen for Salvation?
Hope this wasn't confusing; myself, am confused.....
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Fully agree......what they peddle is not scriptural.....regardless of how they slice and dice!
It is a dogma against the very reputation/nature of God... and an ongoing infection spreading throughout the Church.

They shut the gates of Heaven and have no compunction about it.

When I read what they teach........... I see they are in the same company as these people....

"hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them" (2 Cor. 4:4).

It is not scriptural... how does it continue to be an accepted theology... agree!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
His premise is almost identical to Muslims who say "show me where Jesus says "I am God, worship me." It's a false objection built on spurious premises and if met the goalposts will be moved immediately.
You have to be kidding. Jesus clearly states that He is God clearly says "worship Me".

Hey man quit preaching to the choir and just show us the scriptures.
I mean look...... we have supported our position with innumerable scriptures, and an absolute truckload of them at that. Just a ton of them.

Can you show us one? Just one let's start with one.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Its your attempt at exegesis that is funny.

Arthur W. Pink however is NOT funny. Quite the contrary. He has distinguished himself most honorably, has few peers, and deserves our utmost respect.

You may of course harbor feelings of contempt for him as you see fit.
Another thing ...................why do Calvinists have so many teachers they idolize?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
Thank you. My reason for asking that question is this - when Paul was in prison in Rome, and wrote to the Ephesians, he was writing to Gentiles. So, in the first Chapter, starting in verse 4, he is implying that the Gentiles were chosen as well, which would mean that there is more than one meaning for chosen? For Israel, of course, God's chosen people, but not all chosen for Salvation? As for the Gentiles, those chosen as in chosen for Salvation?
Hope this wasn't confusing; myself, am confused.....
I understand EXACTLY what you are asking. If you listen to (or read) this sermon series, trust me, you will understand and these questions will be answered in your mind.

MacArthur's treatment is just masterful. Breathtaking really. You have to hear this. Your questions pertaining to Israel are all answered in these sermons.

https://www.gty.org/library/topical-series-library/243/the-love-of-god
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,682
8,225
113
Another thing ...................why do Calvinists have so many teachers they idolize?
First you criticize and condemn God the Father then you criticize and condemn His called and appointed teachers.

Have it your way there is going to be hell to pay. Believe it.
 
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
You have to be kidding. Jesus clearly states that He is God clearly says "worship Me".

Hey man quit preaching to the choir and just show us the scriptures.
I mean look...... we have supported our position with innumerable scriptures, and an absolute truckload of them at that. Just a ton of them.

Can you show us one? Just one let's start with one.
Your premise that in order to teach choice there must be someone being said to be choosing is a false premise, along the same lines as a muslim demanding the exact words. The very command "repent and believe" implies the capacity to do so freely.

You've "supported" your position by insisting on a false reading of John 6:44 and Romans 9 and that's about it. You speak of plain language in one place and then in another insist that the wrong word is used. It's quite a dishonest manner to handle the Word.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
His premise is almost identical to Muslims who say "show me where Jesus says "I am God, worship me." It's a false objection built on spurious premises and if met the goalposts will be moved immediately.
Very frustrating...

but what I find very interesting is how they all share the same script... it speaks to being indoctrinated by other men.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.