Christ in You is the Hope of Glory.

[zone]

Zone, your position is based on the gift you've inherited; and I see truth in it, but not all truth. I was shown how and why Peter was given a vision which pertained to his way of thinking in relationship to gentiles according to the law. That purpose of the law was (and is) mishandled by those who say they keep the law. I would not have known the purpose of the law, of Peter's loyalty to the law according to the things which seemed right to him. For many years I read over that teaching (rebuke) and did not see it for lack of knowledge of the law and its purpose. This is a continual thing. I also know that I do not know all things. So when you speak boldly about anything biblical, I do not short-change you. If understanding is known as a continual direction towards our Lord's Truth, than continue to speak boldly about the things you understand today, do not short-change me.

Historical Narrative, was and is one of the major facets of understanding; but as I studied ancient culture of Egypt, I began to see how relative it is in the bible, and in part, why the country of Egypt was used to teach us something about myself. When I understood this on a personal level, with purpose I tend to speak more towards the things which are hidden.

All the things Jesus said and did is and was on a direct path; Each and every step He takes with us is the fulfillment of law and words of the prophets on a spiritual level. I have read and did not know there was more until later in my walk with Jesus.

Some people use the term 'allegory' and some use the term parable. When men write in allegory form, a type of poetry, is not the same as the language given in the New Testament.

The sacrifice of a lamb to redeem the foal of a donkey, can be found in the Old Testament; And it can be found in the New Testament; but a person cannot see this unless there is understanding that God speaks to us continually. Without understand this, God's people struggle to know what God is doing. Jesus actually speaks of this when He said that in the beginning of our walk with Him, we are/were servants to do His will, because we did/do not know what He was doing. But at a certain time in our walk with Him, Jesus calls us His friend. From the time Jesus began His ministry, to the time Jesus spoke of these things; it became self-evident that there is a higher level of understanding.

You have command of historical grammar. It is a gift. I believe you would be wrong in not standing firm. It is the epitome of parable language of being hot or cold. If a person is luke warm in their faith, not caring much one way or the other, than what you share would become utterly useless. This is one of the things I struggle with; to share in a way and time that there might be many who stop to consider the work Jesus has done, or, is about to do in the lives of those who stop to consider the witness.

i didn't mean to short-change you yaright.
i see what you see when you post it. its good.

but the things written about also happened PHYSICALLY and in reality....historically.

Christ's parables and allegory (there's actually little of allegory), but the pictoral/illustrative language and messages DO impart the spiritual meanings.
i'm grateful someone is here pointing to them. sometimes i'm just a little concerned that people take EVERYTHING written and apply it directly to themselves.

not everything is about us in 2011.

i appreciate your work.
z

 

[Abiding]

Lets put this stuff in context

let’s look at John 17:
"I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me" (John 17:20-23 NRSV).
The first thing to notice here is that Jesus prays that his disciples will be one so that the world may know that the Father sent Jesus and that he loves them just as he loved Jesus (v. 23). That means that Jesus is praying for a unity that is at least possible to realize here in our mortality. It obviously won’t do the world any good, as far as showing them that the Father sent Jesus, if we can’t be one in this sense until after we rise from the dead and become exalted in heaven. Jesus must, therefore, be talking about a way that human beings can be united now, while still mortal beings.
The second thing to notice is that the way this unity is expressed is in love (see also vv. 24-26). It is the love of Christians one for another that will convince the world that the Father sent Jesus (see also John 13:34-35). Jesus is obviously not talking about us becoming one with God in the sense of gaining Divine powers; He is talking about us loving each other the way the Father and the Son love each other.. That is a "oneness" that Jesus can share with us. Obviously, Jesus and the Father were one in this sense long before Jesus became a human being; it is therefore, in a sense, part of the oneness that Jesus and the Father have always had as God. It is the aspect of the divine oneness that can be shared with those who are not divine.
In conclusion, John 17 does not prove that the Father and Jesus are one only in purpose. John 17 is not even talking about being one in purpose. It is talking about being one in the love that the Father and Jesus have for each other. That love is part of the divine oneness that the Father and Jesus have shared for eternity as God. As far as that divine unity that is also a unity of divine power and prerogatives, it is a divine oneness that we will never have.

Its odd how weird people can get with their witto minds. And imaginations. So glad the Lord anticapated everything and gave us His word,

 

[zone]

ty mikey
love ya
zonest

 

[GaryMac]

not heal.
i said dead, in the grave for 4 days until he stinketh.

you said you are a duplicate of the Father, and can do what Christ did.

can you raise a man dead in the grave 4 days GARYMAC?

a simple yes or no will suffice.

WILL YOU COME AND RAISE THE DEAD MAN FROM HIS GRAVE 4 DAYS AFTER THEY BURY HIM PLEASE?

obfuscation just proves you're another crackpot.

Ok. correction if you had faith you wouldnt need me you would rases the dead yourself. These signs follow those who believe. Would you believe me if I siad I have done this before? I didnt think so!

 

[GaryMac]

when are you going to start then?

i didn't invent amillennialism Red. but the Amillennialists on this forum appear unwilling to stand for what they know is the truth. that's fine.

i'll stand alone. and i'll keep proving your dispensational theology is folly, and makes christian into murderers.

GaryMac is just another godman....they come and go.
you can support his junk if you want to. and you will.

you didn't address this (try leaving me out of it for change...if you can manage it):



how about addressing the above doctrine Red?

you said:
I am after is to be obedient to the truth

is GaryMac telling the truth about the message of The Cross?
or does it even matter?

Amen Gary is just another God man and we do come and go. Jesus was another Go man as well and if you havent noticed he is gone as well, all that remains is Gods SPirit in the man. But then we have to look at who He really resides in dont we?.

 

[damombomb]

OK,GaryMac you can pray for me anyday!Seriously

 

[GaryMac]

can and will you raise a man buried and dead four days?

yes or no?

If you are asking if I go among those in a grave yard requesting they come to life, NO. But if you are asking if I go among the dead in Christ and request that that Christ is raised in them from their dead doctrines, then yes, I do, absoutly. My witness is a life in Christ and you can read it from my very first post. It is Christ in you who brings YOU to life in Him. Gosh! Let the dead bury the dead. Let those alive in Christ live in Him ans as He is one withHim.

 

[GaryMac]

so, though you have everything Jesus had in Him, and you birthed the christ within, and you are duplicate of the Father, you can not raise the dead, as Christ did.

can you call a blinding mist on a man interfering with the gospel?

are people healed walking in your shadow?

don't patronize me......it laughable.

so you changed your story. you said you COULD do it....but apparently it depends on MY FAITH whether or not you are able. and YOU must have the faith of christ to do it.

i thought you said you had it it all? all the Father gave Jesus (who according to you was the natural child of Joseph) He gave to you. so why can't you raise the dead?

you can't "raise" anyone to life with your words, since you don't preach THE GOSPEL.

Patronize you? It is you who is suposed to speak in tongus, lay hands on the sick and they recover, speak in tongus, raise the dead.

Dont patronize me when this is your responsibility

 

[GaryMac]

yes it is.
you made it about you and who you claim to be' in christ'.
too bad you NEVER understood John 17.

Ho No it has always been about YOU and who YOU are n Christ. I already know who I am in Him, He and I are one.

 

[yaright]

i didn't mean to short-change you yaright.
i see what you see when you post it. its good.

but the things written about also happened PHYSICALLY and in reality....historically.

Christ's parables and allegory (there's actually little of allegory), but the pictoral/illustrative language and messages DO impart the spiritual meanings.
i'm grateful someone is here pointing to them. sometimes i'm just a little concerned that people take EVERYTHING written and apply it directly to themselves.

not everything is about us in 2011.

i appreciate your work.
z

Jesus walking on water is a physical thing

which speaks of spiritual matters (and the fulfillment of a type of law).

I believe I understand when you said you are concerned that people take everything written and apply it directly to themselves. If it is about 'one' person; it is about every 'one'. Whether it is 'one' or 'we'.... have nothing to boast in except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is a language which states that we are not to esteem the work of the Spirit in one person more than the Spirit's work each of us. That inadvertent conduct is in itself a temptation with many hidden parts. This reminds me of temptation that caused 1/3 the angels of Heaven to fall. It is not a small matter. If Egypt became our example of our Heavenly Father leading people out of a place of temptation, than how can something that took place so long ago apply to 2011? It doesn't apply at all. It isn't the year, and time in God's hand is nothing like the things which seem right to us. This is shown in many ways. If the prophecy of Jacob speaks of the obedience of God's people, why are you saying this obedience does not apply to each of us in the year 2011, when Jesus fulfilled Jacob's words in this present time? Jesus said, "Go see what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice"

Even in this present time, when law convicts the heart of a person, and repents in the hope of God's mercy found in His Son, at that very moment the blood of Christ is required, so that in the keeping of the law we will not stand before God empty handed. To believe for a second that we have nothing to do with the sacrifice, is in the wrong. But in our pleadings for His mercy, we "desired mercy, and not sacrifice." Not even the smallest part of law or words of the prophets will pass before they are fulfilled in those called the disciples of Christ.

 

[zone]

Patronize you? It is you who is suposed to speak in tongus, lay hands on the sick and they recover, speak in tongus, raise the dead.

Dont patronize me when this is your responsibility

so GaryMac:
when you speak in tongues are they known human languages you didn't study to learn?

when you lay hands on the sick do they all recover instantly?

how many dead men have you raised from their graves after they have begun to decay?

goodbye GM.

 

[zone]

Jesus walking on water is a physical thing

which speaks of spiritual matters (and the fulfillment of a type of law).

I believe I understand when you said you are concerned that people take everything written and apply it directly to themselves. If it is about 'one' person; it is about every 'one'. Whether it is 'one' or 'we'.... have nothing to boast in except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is a language which states that we are not to esteem the work of the Spirit in one person more than the Spirit's work each of us. That inadvertent conduct is in itself a temptation with many hidden parts. This reminds me of temptation that caused 1/3 the angels of Heaven to fall. It is not a small matter. If Egypt became our example of our Heavenly Father leading people out of a place of temptation, than how can something that took place so long ago apply to 2011? It doesn't apply at all. It isn't the year, and time in God's hand is nothing like the things which seem right to us. This is shown in many ways. If the prophecy of Jacob speaks of the obedience of God's people, why are you saying this obedience does not apply to each of us in the year 2011, when Jesus fulfilled Jacob's words in this present time? Jesus said, "Go see what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice"

Even in this present time, when law convicts the heart of a person, and repents in the hope of God's mercy found in His Son, at that very moment the blood of Christ is required, so that in the keeping of the law we will not stand before God empty handed. To believe for a second that we have nothing to do with the sacrifice, is in the wrong. But in our pleadings for His mercy, we "desired mercy, and not sacrifice." Not even the smallest part of law or words of the prophets will pass before they are fulfilled in those called the disciples of Christ.

i'm not disagreeing with you yaright.
you're a very rare christian who looks and finds the spiritual behind the physical.
but i've seen you're not always accurate (that's okay), and this can become a dangerous practise if one isn't strictly disciplined as you are.


others try this and end up practising divination.

i'll reiterate my concern: EXAMPLE:

charismatics and latter rain (a branch of dispensationalism) proponents think the ACTUAL supernatural events of Pentecost/Acts/Corinth

1) apply to them today in every way
2) have misinterpreted what happened

and we now have a disaster in those churches.

but even this was foretold.
zone.

 

[GaryMac]

so GaryMac:
when you speak in tongues are they known human languages you didn't study to learn?

when you lay hands on the sick do they all recover instantly?

how many dead men have you raised from their graves after they have begun to decay?

goodbye GM.

Some recover and some dont. It is kinda like Jesus when he could do no might works because of their unblief and ABout as many as Jesus did. And yes tongues is universal and everyone who speaks knows the meaining in it.

These signs really do follow us who believe. Do they you? Somehow I get it that they dont?

 

[GaryMac]

John 17:20-23 Speaks of agreement with one another in Christ.

Thus if we believe in Jesus we become in unity with God (oneness)

However Jesus is not just one with the Father but they are ONE and the SAME, Jesus is God. He became mortal flesh and dwelled among us and later His flesh and bone body became glorified after the resurrection. There are many scripture to back this up.

We may be one with Him because we believe in His Son and it all comes in agreement that creates unity but we are NOT the same as to say we are God, we are NOT.

So Gary instead of saying "I and the Father are one" rather say we as Christians are in Him and He in us..(although we should keep on abiding in Him and He in us. It's better this way because people see's you and regarding yourself as "superior"

John 17:20-23
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one—I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Jesus was not God becoming a man, Jesus was God incarnate, God in the man. Jesus said be one with the Father AS HE WAS ONE WITH HIM. And thus I AM, no different at all. Same Spirit that was in Christ Jesus is in me. And no man is a god. God is a Spirit not a man and His abode is in man and He came and made His abode in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Until people see who God is and is Spirit and resides in them, they will continue looking for a god of flesh to come, which will never happen. Countless have gone to a grave waitintg for that god of flesh which is exactly what the enemy would have you do. Never seeng the promice of His coming.

 

[cronjecj]

Jesus was not God becoming a man, Jesus was God incarnate, God in the man. Jesus said be one with the Father AS HE WAS ONE WITH HIM. And thus I AM, no different at all. Same Spirit that was in Christ Jesus is in me. And no man is a god. God is a Spirit not a man and His abode is in man and He came and made His abode in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Until people see who God is and is Spirit and resides in them, they will continue looking for a god of flesh to come, which will never happen. Countless have gone to a grave waitintg for that god of flesh which is exactly what the enemy would have you do. Never seeng the promice of His coming.

Why then do you nullify John 1:1-2 followed by John 1:14?

 

[GaryMac]

Why then do you nullify John 1:1-2 followed by John 1:14?

Nulify? All I have ever preahed to you is the life of Christ in us as it says. That which we have seen with out eyes and touched with our hands. And His word does dwell omong us. In the beginning of every mans salvation is the word and no one excapes this who are to be in Christ as John said in the beginning. We are His living word, he resides in us.

Why do you nulify that what God came to give you is my question to you all?

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

 

[zone]

Some recover and some dont. It is kinda like Jesus when he could do no might works because of their unblief and ABout as many as Jesus did. And yes tongues is universal and everyone who speaks knows the meaining in it.

These signs really do follow us who believe. Do they you? Somehow I get it that they dont?

another who applies the Apostolic authority to themselves but can't back it up.

can't read the Acts of the Apostles and understand it. likely never read it all.

fake as a wooden nickel and worth as much.

no clue about Jesus and His miracles and what they were for and NOT FOR.

tell me: in your charismatic tongue-speaking church why do you need "interpreters" if everybody understands it?

rank rubbish...but it FEELS good don't it? that second baptism, burning bosom. FIRE FIRE FIRE....we have powers (but don't ask for proof....you'd be blaspheming the Holy Spirit).

Revelation 2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars......

NO MORE PROPHETS
NO MORE APOSTLES
NO MORE PENTECOSTAL MIRACLES REQUIRED.

read the bible, preach Christ Crucified.
if ya can't do that, why call yourself a christian?

 

[zone]

Jesus was not God becoming a man, Jesus was God incarnate, God in the man. Jesus said be one with the Father AS HE WAS ONE WITH HIM. And thus I AM, no different at all. Same Spirit that was in Christ Jesus is in me. And no man is a god. God is a Spirit not a man and His abode is in man and He came and made His abode in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

do NOT call yourself egō eimi.

that title is for JESUS CHRIST, the Eternal God manifest in the Son, in the likeness of sinful flesh alone.

God "came and made His abode" in Jesus?

how long must we endure this?

 

[lil_christian]

Jesus was not God becoming a man, Jesus was God incarnate, God in the man. Jesus said be one with the Father AS HE WAS ONE WITH HIM. And thus I AM, no different at all. Same Spirit that was in Christ Jesus is in me. And no man is a god. God is a Spirit not a man and His abode is in man and He came and made His abode in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Until people see who God is and is Spirit and resides in them, they will continue looking for a god of flesh to come, which will never happen. Countless have gone to a grave waitintg for that god of flesh which is exactly what the enemy would have you do. Never seeng the promice of His coming.

One problem: You're a sinner, which DOES make a difference. What you've done and said in the past has soorta separated you from Jesus totally being one with you (besides, when Jesus came to live in your heart, the sinful nature wasn't totally done away with, making you sinless here on earth. It separated things of God and things of the world. And unfortunately, us humans flip-flop around.), therefore preventing you from being perfect. When you reap what you sow, what you sow sticks around for quite a while.

 

[GaryMac]

another who applies the Apostolic authority to themselves but can't back it up.

can't read the Acts of the Apostles and understand it. likely never read it all.

fake as a wooden nickel and worth as much.

no clue about Jesus and His miracles and what they were for and NOT FOR.

tell me: in your charismatic tongue-speaking church why do you need "interpreters" if everybody understands it?

rank rubbish...but it FEELS good don't it? that second baptism, burning bosom. FIRE FIRE FIRE....we have powers (but don't ask for proof....you'd be blaspheming the Holy Spirit).

Revelation 2:2
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars......

NO MORE PROPHETS
NO MORE APOSTLES
NO MORE PENTECOSTAL MIRACLES REQUIRED.

read the bible, preach Christ Crucified.
if ya can't do that, why call yourself a christian?

As I said, Jesus couldn’t do any mighty works in some either because of their doubt and unbelief. It isn’t that we cant, it is that you don’t believe we can just as some then didn’t believe is all.

Nothing fake about a wooden nickel IT IS WHAT IT IS. It just isn’t what you want it to be. I AM That I Am, and that isn’t what you want me to be.

And I agree you have no clue about Jesus and what they were for and for, they are for you to follow in His ways, they are examples of what you are supposed to be and doing. You rally haven’t a clue.

Im not a member of a charismatic church and cant tell you at all what they believe or don’t believe.

And your comment, “rank rubbish...but it FEELS good don't it? that second baptism, burning bosom. FIRE FIRE FIRE....we have powers (but don't ask for proof....you'd be blaspheming the Holy Spirit).”

I cant help it if the way of Christ is rank rubbish to you, but as for me I walk in everything Jesus has for me, I follow His way for me. I know you don’t believe Him and what He says but these signs really do follow those who believe, it is that you don’t follow that way is all.

Revelation 2:2 and He does know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars...... And to you anyone who has in them what Jesus had and these works do follow them to you they are liars aren’t we?

NO MORE PROPHETS
NO MORE APOSTLES
NO MORE PENTECOSTAL MIRACLES REQUIRED.
No more only to those who do not have Christ in them and know what it is to be these things for yourself

read the bible, preach Christ Crucified.
if ya can't do that, why call yourself a christian?[/quote]

Aww …Very cool, Amen! And I am crucified with Christ nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ lives in me. I preach it with every breath. What is it you preach?
Oh Yeah’ I remember what you preach. You cant be like Him, you cant have what Jesus had, you cant be His apostle, His prophet, cant do any miracles, cant be one with Him as He is one with the Father. Cant be without sin, Cant do anything Jesus came to tell you to be and do.
But I do agree with you on one thing. These signs defiantly do not follow you.