CHRIST THE CHOSEN ONE, THE ELECT OF THE FATHER

[ForestGreenCook]

Please quit ignoring my questions and answer this one.

The reason you ignore that question is because it proves that your view that IF man gets saved on the basis of his faith, that gives glory to man, rather than God.

If YOU were the drowning man, and a lifeguard reached out and offered you a lifebouy, you'd be praising the lifeguard for saving you, and you KNOW IT.

That is exactly what happens in salvation. Jesus offers the free gift, and those who receive it, on the basis of faith IN Him, are saved.

All the praise goes to the One who offers the gift. Certainly NOT the one who takes it.

You're just trying to avoid my example because it FITS the gospel.

Spiritually dead people are ALIVE physically and CAN respond to offers. So it is YOUR example that doesn't fit the Bible.

Jesus offers salvation to everyone. Want to see the verse again? Great! Here are the first 6 listed on bible hub.com:

New International Version
For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
New Living Translation
For the grace of God has been revealed, bringing salvation to all people.
English Standard Version
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,
Berean Study Bible
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone.
Berean Literal Bible
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
King James Bible
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

They all say the same thing. All men, everyone, all people clearly means everyone in the human race. There is NO WAY to get "the elect" from this verse.

God's grace brings salvation to everyone.
God's grace offers salvation to everyone.

All the same thing. And Titus 2:11 refutes calvinism.

So my example fits the Bible, whereas yours doesn't. Yours is like puppet theology. The puppetmaster does everything, and the stupid wooden headed puppet just lies there until the master starts pulling strings.

The thing that you'll never find in the Bible is puppetry.

As I have told you before that all of the scriptures must harmonize in order to reveal the truth.

Lets consider who the "all men" that are under consideration here. The KJV has a footnote for Titus 2:11 referencing a harmonizing scripture, which is Eph 2:8, which also is the scripture that you claim Jesus faith, as being your faith.

Eph 2:8 - For by grace are "YE" are saved. The word "ye," if kept in context, would be who Paul is speaking to in Eph 1:1, who are "the saints which are at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus", which is the same as the "all men" in Titus 2:11.

Mark 4:11 - Ans he said unto them, unto you (the apostles, and those that were about them) it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but to them that are without, (which includes you) all these things are done in parables. We have discussed the following parable of the sower and the seed, in which, you have also misinterpreted.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John wrote that and he wasn't quoting Jesus when he wrote it.

Yes, he did quote Jesus a lot.

This is the second time you have contradicted yourself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Where does saving faith come from?

From man's heart. Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Notice the clarity of who is doing the believing and the result; justification. Which is eternal soul salvation.

 

[LoveBrokeThru]

Christ is the "only begotten" whose "one time eternal sacrifice" is able to produce the "elect" (all born again) as 'Sons" of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Please quit ignoring my questions and answer this one.

The reason you ignore that question is because it proves that your view that IF man gets saved on the basis of his faith, that gives glory to man, rather than God.

If YOU were the drowning man, and a lifeguard reached out and offered you a lifebouy, you'd be praising the lifeguard for saving you, and you KNOW IT.

That is exactly what happens in salvation. Jesus offers the free gift, and those who receive it, on the basis of faith IN Him, are saved.

All the praise goes to the One who offers the gift. Certainly NOT the one who takes it.

You're just trying to avoid my example because it FITS the gospel.

As I have told you before that all of the scriptures must harmonize in order to reveal the truth.

So, you just won't face my example then. What are you afraid of?

Lets consider who the "all men" that are under consideration here. The KJV has a footnote for Titus 2:11 referencing a harmonizing scripture, which is Eph 2:8, which also is the scripture that you claim Jesus faith, as being your faith.

None of the original scribes made "footnotes". That comes from translators. And that one was wrong. Titus 2:11 doesn't mean "only believers", or "only the elect". The word is "pas". Not difficult to understand. If Paul meant a subset of ALL humanity, the verse would have plainly said so, or at least in the context. So, show me the evidence from the context that concludes that the "all" in 2:11 only means saved people.

Eph 2:8 - For by grace are "YE" are saved. The word "ye," if kept in context, would be who Paul is speaking to in Eph 1:1, who are "the saints which are at Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ Jesus", which is the same as the "all men" in Titus 2:11.

This is nothing less than a very wrong opinion. There is NO LINK between the 2 verses. The Great Commission to the 11 apostles clearly was about preaching the gospel to EVERY creature, not every elect creature, as Calvinism wishes.

You have no case. Titus 2:11 obviously includes the entire human race in the word "all".

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
John wrote that and he wasn't quoting Jesus when he wrote it.

Yes, he did quote Jesus a lot.

This is the second time you have contradicted yourself.

Do you understand the word "contradiction"? What have I contradicted.

The point should be clear to you. Yes, John did quote Jesus a lot. But John's writings WEREN'T ONLY what Jesus said.

Can you understand that?

 

[DavidTree]

From man's heart. Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Notice the clarity of who is doing the believing and the result; justification. Which is eternal soul salvation.

EXCELLENT

According to Romans chapter 10 = How does faith enter the mans heart?

 

[FreeGrace2]

EXCELLENT

According to Romans chapter 10 = How does faith enter the mans heart?

Just what Rom 10:10 says; man believes from the heart.

iow, when an unbeliever hears the gospel and responds to the offer of salvation/eternal life. That's how the Christian faith enters the man's heart.

 

[DavidTree]

Just what Rom 10:10 says; man believes from the heart.

iow, when an unbeliever hears the gospel and responds to the offer of salvation/eternal life. That's how the Christian faith enters the man's heart.

ANSWER: Romans 10:14-15
"How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Just what Rom 10:10 says; man believes from the heart.

iow, when an unbeliever hears the gospel and responds to the offer of salvation/eternal life. That's how the Christian faith enters the man's heart.

ANSWER: Romans 10:14-15
"How then can they call on the One in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in the One of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Though I didn't ask a question, this passage did enter my mind.

Did you agree with my answer to your question, though?

 

[DavidTree]

FreeGrace2 said:
Just what Rom 10:10 says; man believes from the heart.

iow, when an unbeliever hears the gospel and responds to the offer of salvation/eternal life. That's how the Christian faith enters the man's heart.

Though I didn't ask a question, this passage did enter my mind.

Did you agree with my answer to your question, though?

YES, your thoughts are correct.

My question was = "How does faith enter a man's heart?"

Answer is Romans 10:14-15

Which brings us back to the original question of "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"
This needs application to Salvation.

Peace

 

[awelight]

*Rrrrrhhh* buzzer




Just no. Keep your foot out of your mouth. This is above your level. Go read a book. Learn something. Challenge yourself. If you can't be bothered to take five minutes to research how this works, I can't be bothered to reply to you further.

I have never encountered someone who is so distasteful as you are. You have the personality of rough-grit sandpaper.

Why I am bothering to answer you - I know not.

You stated the following: (In blue)
If you look at Mat 13:36-53, there is a clear, explicit example of Jesus answering his disciples with parable. So no, your impression that Jesus never spoke to His disciples in parable is wrong. And this is a great example about how trying to intuitively guess everything because it "feels right" will very often lead you to an incorrect understanding.

As explained earlier, Matthew 13:36-43 - Is Jesus explaining the parable that He gave to the multitude, of which the disciples overheard. Jesus Christ was not teaching them directly.

I do not include Matthew 13:44-50 - Because Jesus gave them these parables but then asked if they understood them. Mat 13:51 Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea. At no time, does Christ ask the crowd, the Pharisees or a scribe if they understood.

Do you even know the Biblical reason for parables? Perhaps these verses will give you some understanding:

Mat 13:10-14 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables; because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And unto them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall in no wise perceive:

Note here - The mysteries are given to His own (In red), not to those who are identified with the pronouns they and them. Also note, the disciples were asking why He was teaching in parables to them - which by logical deduction means - He was not using parables to teach them.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus in parables unto the multitudes; and without a parable spake he nothing unto them:
Mat 13:35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world.

While this verse, does not directly give reason for parables, it does give reason as to the purpose of them:

Luke 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes: yea, Father; for so it was well-pleasing in thy sight.

Surely, no one with seeing eyes and hearing ears, would believe that these verses, which are about masking the plain spoken truth, would be applicable to Christ's true disciples.

Finally - as to what is Objective Truth? As it pertains to this conversation - It is subjective truth verified and confirmed by objective revelation. Stated another way - It is what one believes to be true, after and only if it stands the test of God's Revealed Word. Therefore, God's Revealed Word given to man is the ONLY Objective Truth available because man cannot know God. Ergo, God is Truth and Truth is God.

The funniest thing you posted, though, was to say that... "pure logic is never subjective." Really? (Wait a minute... I am trying to give you the Vulcan hand salute. LOL). Then I guess none of the Sciences are based upon pure logic but upon some sort of none subjective logic.

For we know, that science denies God and His Creation. They start with an uncaused - cause and logically proceed from there. What a joke. I mean, what kind of logic proceeds from an uncaused - cause. They willingly break there own rules and don't put to much weight on mathematics either. Sure it got us to the moon and allows us to do many great things but it is not an Objective Truth. (That just upset the astrophysicist). Anything, that may appear to be a scientific law or fact, is totally dependent upon God willing it so. All Objective Truth is dependent on God and God alone.

Let's see logic explain this one.

Isa 38:7 And this shall be the sign unto thee from Jehovah, that Jehovah will do this thing that he hath spoken:
Isa 38:8 behold, I will cause the shadow on the steps, which is gone down on the dial of Ahaz with the sun, to return backward ten steps. So the sun returned ten steps on the dial whereon it was gone down.

No form of science can explain this miracle. Man can give no logical explanation for this event. It broke all the rules of math because God's Objective Truth is not hemmed in by our sciences or understanding.

 

[FreeGrace2]

YES, your thoughts are correct.

My question was = "How does faith enter a man's heart?"

Answer is Romans 10:14-15

And that was my answer.

Which brings us back to the original question of "Which came first the chicken or the egg?"
This needs application to Salvation.

Peace

Well, the answer to the original question is easy; the chicken. An egg isn't a chicken. It needs work before it becomes a chicken.

God didn't create a fetus, but rather, a fully mature male and female.

As to application to salvation, the Bible teaches that both salvation and regeneration are preceded by faith.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Here, Paul was basically equating the red words, which refer to regeneration, with the blue words, which refer to salvation.

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

The blue words in v.8 are the same words at the end of v.5, which are also in blue.

The green words precede both regeneration and salvation. That's what "through faith" means.

In order to "go through" something, the something must exist that you are "going through".

Many people argue that the phrase "this is not from yourselves" refers to faith. iow, God gives the faith in order to believe and be saved.

However, parsing the verse reveals the truth:

For it is by grace (feminine) you have been saved (masculine), through faith (feminine)—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God (masculine)—

In Greek, the genders must match. We see that "grace" is feminine as is "faith". And "salvation" is masculine) as is "of God".

So, the phrase "this is not from yourselves" refers back to the feminine, or "faith", not "salvation".

 

[ForestGreenCook]

From man's heart. Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Notice the clarity of who is doing the believing and the result; justification. Which is eternal soul salvation.

Clarity is not one of your strong points. First of all, you are studying from the wrong version of the bible, secondly, you are interpreting that the heart is the heart of stone (unregenerate) which, in fact, it is the heart of flesh.(regenerate) Thirdly, justification is imputed to the born again child of God, the unregenerate man is not made just as a result of his belief.
Fourthly, you are interpreting that the deliverance is eternal, which in fact, it is a temporal deliverance.

 

[DavidTree]

And that was my answer.


Well, the answer to the original question is easy; the chicken. An egg isn't a chicken. It needs work before it becomes a chicken.

God didn't create a fetus, but rather, a fully mature male and female.

As to application to salvation, the Bible teaches that both salvation and regeneration are preceded by faith.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Here, Paul was basically equating the red words, which refer to regeneration, with the blue words, which refer to salvation.

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

The blue words in v.8 are the same words at the end of v.5, which are also in blue.

The green words precede both regeneration and salvation. That's what "through faith" means.

In order to "go through" something, the something must exist that you are "going through".

Many people argue that the phrase "this is not from yourselves" refers to faith. iow, God gives the faith in order to believe and be saved.

However, parsing the verse reveals the truth:

For it is by grace (feminine) you have been saved (masculine), through faith (feminine)—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God (masculine)—

In Greek, the genders must match. We see that "grace" is feminine as is "faith". And "salvation" is masculine) as is "of God".

So, the phrase "this is not from yourselves" refers back to the feminine, or "faith", not "salvation".

Right, you got it = faith comes "not of yourself" it is the Gift of God.

SEE if you can find the LORD saying this in the Gospel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If YOU were the drowning man, and a lifeguard reached out and offered you a lifebouy, you'd be praising the lifeguard for saving you, and you KNOW IT.

How does a dead man catch hold of the lifebouy? When God quickens the unregenerate man, he is dead Eph 2:1.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

This is nothing less than a very wrong opinion. There is NO LINK between the 2 verses. The Great Commission to the 11 apostles clearly was about preaching the gospel to EVERY creature, not every elect creature, as Calvinism wishes.

The apostles were instructed to go and preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 10:6-7).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You have no case. Titus 2:11 obviously includes the entire human race in the word "all".

That is by your own interpretation, which is false. There is, absolutely, a connection between Titus 2:11 and Eph 2;8 and Eph 1:1. unless you want the scriptures to say that mankind can deliver himself eternally by his own actions.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

FreeGrace2 said:
John wrote that and he wasn't quoting Jesus when he wrote it.

Yes, he did quote Jesus a lot.

Do you understand the word "contradiction"? What have I contradicted.

The point should be clear to you. Yes, John did quote Jesus a lot. But John's writings WEREN'T ONLY what Jesus said.

Can you understand that?

I understand more than you give me credit for.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

EXCELLENT

According to Romans chapter 10 = How does faith enter the mans heart?

First of all, before faith of spiritual things can enter man's heart, his heart must be changed from the heart of stone (the unregenerate man) to a heart of flesh (the regenerate man), (Ezk 36:26). This happens when God quickens the spiritually dead unregenerate man, into a new spiritual life in the new birth. (Eph 2:1)