Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
0
who is your teacher Sister Hebrews 8 read the whole Chapter. Will not God when we are of God discern for you the truth?
I know there are fakes out in this world, nothing is new under the Son.
God is the born again ones teacher and are no longer of this world.
Yet there are those that are real as well. God is alive and Love of God goes on forever. And God will use as God see fit to use whoever, whenever God see fit, if we as the vessel are willing.
Now so as you see yes we are to be discerning to what is truth. So who lives in you Sister God right? so you will know truth. truth that sets you free if you get grounded and settled in this truth below in scripture from God to you.
Colossians 1:21-23

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

But go after prophesy, and if you do not get it that remember God ahs a purpose for you and it could be to speak in another tongue that another needs to hear and praise God for it, and believe God thus be saved.

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Mark 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

So what is Father's will? many of us get our own will's in the way?
All I can say is have personal talk with our heavenly Father whom we have access to thanks to Christ. Instead of being led by our fears. I say this to me.

John 6

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”


And Homeward you took some of those verses out of context.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
you keep making this accusation.

the rest of your post is evidence you didn't understand what i wrote. and you don't understand what happened.

~

and let's take a look at this (always conveniently out of context):

Acts 2
The Holy Spirit at Pentecost

(Joel 2:28-32; John 14:15-26; John 16:5-16; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-7)

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Peter Preaches to the Crowd
14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: 15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.........


~

Joel foretold of the Day of Pentecost (so did most of the prophets - surprise!).
Peter stood right there ON THAT DAY and said what THEY, right there, way back then, SAW AND HEARD WAS exactly what Joel had foretold.


where was it? - Jerusalem

what was it? - Power from on High - The Promise of The Father

what happened? - your sons and your daughters shall prophesy (of Israel - the faithful DISCIPLES who did what - prophesied - what? THE WONDERFUL WORKS OF GOD - His Plan in Christ - and your young men shall see visions (didn't Peter see the vision of the gentiles - unclean food), and your old men shall dream dream.....this PROMISE was for ISRAEL for 3000 years.

are we going to excise it from it's HISTORICAL context where it's clearly in the past, a fulfilled Promise.....and drag it ahead 2000 to today and make it NOT what Peter said it was?

~


And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven

unless you are a Universalist (either for them back there or for us here today) - EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD - ALL FLESH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH - is not being "Baptized in the Holy Ghost" (though there's most definitely a counterfeit thing happening BECAUSE of the corruption of this passage - even Muslims; Catholics; Mormons and MOST religious pagans speak "in tongues":). so it obviously means something else.

how can we know? read it:

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven

EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN?
did devout Jews travel from Argentina to Jerusalem and stand there with peter? how about from Canada?
it clearly means something else.

what does it mean. exactly what it says. the PROMISE went to exactly the people it was promised to FIRST - Israel.
beginning at Jerusalem.

they received DIRECT real time REVELATION from God that everything he had Promised for thousands of years was happening RIGHT THERE.


On the Road to Emmaus
13That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven milesa from Jerusalem, 14and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. 18Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 19And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, 23and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.” 25And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

28So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther, 29but they urged him strongly, saying, “Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” So he went in to stay with them. 30When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. 31And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight. 32They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?” 33And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, 34saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!” 35Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he was known to them in the breaking of the bread.

Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. 38And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish,b 43and he took it and ate before them.

44Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.

49And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”


The Ascension
50Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy, 53and were continually in the temple blessing God.


so WHO received POWER from on High? His Witnesses. the very disciples He handpicked and called. and all He added to their NUMBER - FROM ISRAEL....just as Promised.

then what? the Gospel went to the GENTILES....right?

Romans 1"16
I am Not Ashamed of the Gospel

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."


i...........do..........not.............understand why this is scoffed at.
i do not understand why this is glossed over.
i don't get why it's NOT ENOUGH that God fulfilled the promises to the people He said He would, and continues to SAVE according to His Wisdom - through the FOOLISHNESS of the PREACHING of the VERY SAME Gospel they heard.


1 Corinthians 15:3
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9For I am the least of the apostles, unworthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me. 11Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

Acts 2:38
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"

38Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39"For the promise (FORGIVENESS OF SINS - THE HOLY SPIRIT GUARANTEE) is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."




Repent,
and
be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ,
for the forgiveness of your sins;
and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.




did you receive The Spirit through the Works of the Law?
did you receive the Spirit by the laying on of hands?
did you receive the Spirit because you were in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost?

or did you HEAR THE GOOD NEWS OF YOUR SALVATION PREACHED - CHRIST CRUCIFIED for your sins......and you:

Repented,
and
were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ,
for the forgiveness of your sins;
and you received the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Oh I do understand you have been harmed deeply. And am praying for you to move past this hurt. Love you deeper than you see.
Oh Sister, I made no accusations to you, we all reveal ourselves in truth over time. And it really is between God and you, not me and you or anyone else.
Sorry you took me wrong, just asked the ?. So many times in your posts, anger seems to be overriding you and anger is from the flesh that by belief in being born again by God at the resurrected Christ we are thus dead to Sin (anger) flesh anger that condemns:
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And this is the true war:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now

Only God truthfully knows your exact intentions and I applaud God for this. As well as for mine
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

When I see what appears to be flesh corrupting and condemning I speak up asking God for God's Love to protrude through. Since I can do nothing of self
So again not accusing you know truth as well as I and all that do believe or not believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
do you attend church home?
how is it you know anything about them?
Had my time there, been used and abused there, and found the only one true one that God pitched not man. In the Heavens. Where I am made a citizen of. Been put back here in the flesh, dead flesh that is which is back alive by God's power to be an ambassador of God in the Spirit of God.
An Ambassador is a person that represents. My representation is God through Christ residing in the Heavens.
Where one is safe and secure.
Hebrews 8
Hebrews 8:2 a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
who were the flesh and blood against the Spirit home? cessationists?
or Pharisees who said the gentiles had to live by Mosaic Law?

...

Paul came face to face with Jesus Christ on the Road to Damascus.
Jesus spoke directly to him.
he had been set apart BEFORE birth for that very purpose.

struck down - blinded.
3 days blind in shivering terror and repentance.
then what?


Galatians 1
Greeting

1Paul, an apostlenot from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2and all the brothersa who are with me....


....Paul Called by God
11For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel.c 12For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15But when he who had set me apart before I was born,d and who called me by his grace, 16was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;f 17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. 19But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother. 20(In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!) 21Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24And they glorified God because of me.
HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how is your point here have anything to do with today, is God not at work today to bring the captives home through him?

  1. Acts 2:17
    And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    Acts 2:16-18 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. Acts 2:18 and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

    Is God's Spirit not being poured out to this very day? Is not by the Holy Spirit of god that one comes to belief or stays in unbelief? And if one stays in unbelief then that is Blasphemy to God that is not forgiven right?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
if you are perfect, you'll have a perfect knowledge of the scriptures and the Plan of God.

so why don't you tell me about the gifts and whether or not they ceased?

tell me home - what was their purpose?

do you know the passage that makes it clear?
I do not war in the carnal flesh as man does. Gifts have not ceased and will not. God is a God of love and the war is none other than flesh verses God's Spirit of truth, always out to stop others and bring in doubt of God.
God by belief from God through Son has done the below verse. So tell me from God's perspective are you perfected in God by Christ or not?
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

what are tongues?
are there prophets today?
is the title of this OP true for today?

surely you know.
All things are possible with God. What part of "ALL" do you not understand here?
 
Q

Quickfire

Guest
I do not war in the carnal flesh as man does.
you must be Jesus then, or you must be in a permanent state of tranquility, or your the guy who thinks your mr perfect but your not, you can innocently sin and not mean it to, like lose your temper, and strike a man, in a fight,
one day you could be called upon to defend someone, will you choose to the right thing at the right time,

Have you always done the right thing, you think you have totally beaten your flesh,,?? then maybe you should stop praying to while your at it. really grow up and stop coming out with perfetic statements
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
are you ever going to correct this?
this charge is more serious than almost any other.
Actually is it not you that is going to correct that all things to this very day are possible with God? ALL Sister means ALL. Nothing is left out. This includes Tongues and Prophesy, and healings, and, and, and, again
And it states in scripture no to forbid speaking in tongues, yet you are ignoring that bit of scripture. You are forbidding tongues are you not? I know there are fake ones, but there are real ones as well are there not?
You have the right to believe as you want to as all of us do.
Yet none of us, have to live like refugees, so let's all start loving one another as God does love us all, even in error(s) For I know those that God has received will straighten us out

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
[h=3]Romans 14:4[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
Not saying that you are judging anyone, making this clear just posting scripture that states truth about God is the one that gets us to stand not man.

Not stating that you are making any judgments just posting scripture in proof it is God that is the one that gets us to stand.

You do water and plant as many here do. But no matter what, it is God that gives the increase
1 Corinthians 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
in bondage?
where do you get that from home?

the discussion is about da gifs.

and your accusation that i say nobody receives the Holy Spirit.



okay, we're off topic home.

i'll wait and see if you're addressing the subject - or preachin' the good news. which is fine by me.
If the Spiritual gifts are over, then the dispensation of God's pouring out all Spirit upon all flesh is thus over yes?
Again you keep thinking I am accusing you of something, do not know why, but you do and God does. Not my thing. Love you obviously deeper than you see.
I am only about the Gospel of God through Christ, his saving that he did
Thank You.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
home - are there prophets today?

if you answer yes, then you know one. or of one.
please post his or her prophecies.

since you have been made perfect, and have been set free, and know the truth, you also will be able to test the prophet.

so why don't we both obey the command to test the spirits.

we'll see what conclusion we reach - if we disagree, there's a problem, right?
so please either actually get involved on the ground here and produce an actual prophet or apostle with the signs of an apostle, or you're just making noise.
I have been here long enough for you to know or at least have seen you refute whatever is said.
But here you go.

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

All the ones that believe God stand for God in the Spirit of God being born again by God through the resurrected Christ and have all the gifts of God's Spirit available as God decides to use them through the believers.
Prophesy is telling of the amazing work of God, at the cross where we are forgiven by God through Son, made Holy in God. And God once we see this we see the new life God gave us in God's Spirit, while we are still in this flesh, that to me is now considered dead.
So God using me and anyone else that is willing for God to use them is a Prophet of God.
Not in the way it is used today where one takes over leading others, as was in Christ day, Blind leading the blind.
You by belief God tells you the truth and the truth God reveals sets one free and are Prophets in telling others of the Christ that plainly just loves them. This is what the Apostles started. Not to be leaders of others, rather to be servants to, building them up in the Faith to trust God the Father through the Son, and be led by none other ever. To listen and ask God for discernment in knowing what is what.
John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83

John 6

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”


And Homeward you took some of those verses out of context.
Sister love what you posted, it is truth, by belief, and nothing else, we are set free in God. learning this to be out of the way to self (not that your in the way), and alive to God in God's Spirit. For why? So God can do God's work through us.
Do you deny to not forbid them that speak In tongues? Are we to deny those that claim they do? Or just discern those that do without a railing accusation? So is it possible those that claim to have spoken in tongues that God has received them?
It is your free will to decide as this is the same for all.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,447
452
83
you must be Jesus then, or you must be in a permanent state of tranquility, or your the guy who thinks your mr perfect but your not, you can innocently sin and not mean it to, like lose your temper, and strike a man, in a fight,
one day you could be called upon to defend someone, will you choose to the right thing at the right time,

Have you always done the right thing, you think you have totally beaten your flesh,,?? then maybe you should stop praying to while your at it. really grow up and stop coming out with perfetic statements
No have not. But have grown in grace since the age of twelve.
It started out, being born like an apple is, hanging from a tree branch. Perfect in God's sight thanks to Christ. Just not matured yet, ripe, perfected grown up.
As an apple is when it is first born hanged from the tree branch. When that apple is first born in and through that tree branch it is a perfect apple right?
Just not matured, grown up yet, ripe for eating correct?
This is how it is for all that do come to belief and one day see it as Paul saw it. If you do believe then as Paul saw it you willsee it to.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

It is through us that believe seek to be co-crucified with Christ back at the cross with Christ, daily, and thus see being dead to self. So that we might see the resurrected Christ in us by God having new life. or do you not yet see what scripture is sating about the war of flesh and Spirit.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The above is Baptism of the Holy Ghost with fire, where we are dead to flesh and alive to God

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So I know it is preached that we still sin because we are alive in flesh that is unredeemed.
So then maybe now you might see why Paul said to de dead to flesh sin, carnal nature and put no confidence in flesh.
Philippians 3:1 [ No Confidence in the Flesh ] Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you.
Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

So are you now seeing in God's Spirit, to consider you the self dead to flesh first with Christ at the cross?
Cause as Paul has said many a times unless you are in agreement to this and don't go through the door of co-crucifixion with Christ at his death, which is our death to flesh as well. How might we gain the power of the resurrected Christ living in us?
Philippians 3:10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death

Are you listening, it is through Christ's death, us willing to be dead to self. That we might see the resurrection in God's Spirit if God is willing to mature you in your belief that is. Depends on ones motive.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Actually is it not you that is going to correct that all things to this very day are possible with God? ALL Sister means ALL. Nothing is left out.
all means all.
so all people will be saved, because the Holy Spirit is being poured out today on all flesh, universally.

every single person in the world should have supernatural gifts as well as salvation.

home, i am aware that you currently adhere to Mid-Acts Dispensationalism.

this is why we will not understand each other.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
I have been here long enough for you to know or at least have seen you refute whatever is said.
But here you go.

1 Corinthians 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

All the ones that believe God stand for God in the Spirit of God being born again by God through the resurrected Christ and have all the gifts of God's Spirit available as God decides to use them through the believers.
are tongues known human languages?


Prophesy is telling of the amazing work of God, at the cross where we are forgiven by God through Son, made Holy in God. And God once we see this we see the new life God gave us in God's Spirit, while we are still in this flesh, that to me is now considered dead.
So God using me and anyone else that is willing for God to use them is a Prophet of God.
are you an inspired prophet through whom God is speaking infallibly?

Not in the way it is used today where one takes over leading others, as was in Christ day, Blind leading the blind.
You by belief God tells you the truth and the truth God reveals sets one free and are Prophets in telling others of the Christ that plainly just loves them. This is what the Apostles started. Not to be leaders of others, rather to be servants to, building them up in the Faith to trust God the Father through the Son, and be led by none other ever. To listen and ask God for discernment in knowing what is what.
you just made all that up.
you're either a Christian sharing the biblical Gospel or you're a prophet according to the gift and office of prophet.

if you don't know what the actual gifts were, why are you claiming to have them now?

what are the inspired, infallible prophecies God has related to you?

if you don't have any, you're not a prophet - according to the supernatural power poured out at Pentecost.
you weren't there for the foundation.


1 Corinthians 3:9
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

which of these are you?

are you among the WE Paul mentions?
or the you?
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
hi Stephen.
did you see the scriptures which clearly said the Apostles had to have seen Jesus, and seen Him in His Resurrection?
there are more.

do you agree with scriptures (the testimony of the eye-witnesses) so far?
-zone


since you're more like the church of Rome - desiring apostolic succession - and the power and authority you claim it gives you - being so close to God after all.
NOPE.
As usual, you go to the Internet and search with buzzwords.

Some of us would rather use Bible commentaries, encyclopedias, and dictionaries.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:
3. The Wider Circle:
It is sometimes said by those who recognize that there were other apostles besides the Twelve and Paul that the latter (to whom some, on the ground of 1 Cor. 15:7; Galatians 1:19, would add James the Lord's brother) were the apostles par excellence, while the other apostles mentioned in the New Testament were apostles in some inferior sense. It is hardly possible, however, to make out such a distinction on the ground of New Testament usage. There were great differences, no doubt, among the apostles of the primitive church, as there were among the Twelve themselves—differences due to natural talents, to personal acquirements and experience, to spiritual gifts. Paul was greater than Barnabas or Silvanus, just as Peter and John were greater than Thaddaeus or Simon the Cananean. But Thaddaeus and Simon were disciples of Jesus in the very same sense as Peter and John; and the Twelve and Paul were not more truly apostles than others who are mentioned in the New Testament. If apostleship denotes missionary service, and if its reality, as Paul suggests, is to be measured by its seals, it would be difficult to maintain that Matthias was an apostle par excellence, while Barnabas was not. Paul sets Barnabas as an apostle side by side with himself (1 Cor. 9:5f; Galatians 2:9; compare Acts 13:2f; Acts 14:4, 14); he speaks of Andronicus and Junias as "of note among the apostles" (Romans 16:7); he appears to include Apollos along with himself among the apostles who are made a spectacle unto the world and to angels and to men (1 Cor. 4:6, 9); the natural inference from a comparison of 1 Thes. 1:1 with 2:6 is that he describes Silvanus and Timothy as "apostles of Christ"; to the Philippians he mentions Epaphroditus as "your apostle" (Phil. 2:25 the Revised Version, margin), and to the Corinthians commends certain unknown brethren as "the apostles of the churches" and "the glory of Christ" (2 Cor. 8:23 the Revised Version, margin). And the very fact that he found it necessary to denounce certain persons as "false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ" (2 Cor. 11:13) shows that there was no thought in the primitive church of restricting the apostleship to a body of 12 or 13 men. "Had the number been definitely restricted, the claims of these interlopers would have been self-condemned" (Lightfoot, Galatians, 97).

You see, zone, the difference between you and me is that you search for scriptures on the Internet that are already prefabricated and twisted to your taste. You never bother actually reading the actual scriptures to search out the rest of the facts. The bible says to show yourself approved to be able to rightly handle the word of truth. Scanning the Internet is hardly rightly handling God's truth. That's why such people are termed "Internet theologians", because all they know is what they see on the Internet.
thanks for not accepting what the scriptures say, but for whipping out your tired loopholes to make yourself more than you are. maybe you are an Apostle or Prophet with power and authority - i doubt it, since i've seen no evidence Christ chose you to be a witness of His life, teachings, death, and resurrection. if He had, your name would be in the bible.
Here we go again.................. with your psychological projection, stating I'm the one who has the problem, that I'm the one not listening to scripture. Don't think you can flip that on me, I know better.
Urban Dictionary: psychological projection


1. Projection is the psychological phenomenon where someone thinks everyone else is doing and thinking what they are. It is usually seen as the externalisation of a person's negative traits, placing blame on an outside force such as the environment, a government, a society or other people.
2. Projection can also extend to philosophy and knowledge. This occurs when a person or small group of people assume that everyone else is working with the same ideas and/or information that they are. When this fails to happen, however, it can lead to pluralistic ignorance. A telltale sign of this is when a speaker says that "Everybody knows that...(a certain course of action)" is either beneficial or harmful, so society should avoid an impending catastrophe by following the course of action that the speaker proposes.
3. Another common forum for projection is in internet arguments, where it is usually pathetically obvious to everyone except the projector. The problem is recognized in intelligence analysis, in the form of cognitive traps for intelligence analysis.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
names?



forget my definition of apostle.

please do give the names of these people above. and any other information you have.

i have go out. will be back later. thank you.
Again, refusing to comply, answering only when it's convenient. Why is it you are the only one you believe can make demands? Why can't something be demanded of you? Because you're the Great & Powerful Oz? Always leaving when convenient, or properly translated, you don't have an answer.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0



RESOURCES
Criticisms of Pentecostalism

The Pentecostal/Charismatic Movement has affected the whole of Christianity in a way not seen since the Protestant Reformation. Though many admire how it energizes its followers, many theologians and ministers are shocked at how much of traditional Christian doctrine many of these denominations and churches either completely ignore, misinterpret, or mangle into ideologies similar to the ancient heresies of the past. Many have called certain tenets of this movement heretical, and explain why.

Criticisms of Pentecostalism < click
Now who's derailing the thread?
 
Q

Quickfire

Guest
No have not. But have grown in grace since the age of twelve.
It started out, being born like an apple is, hanging from a tree branch. Perfect in God's sight thanks to Christ. Just not matured yet, ripe, perfected grown up.
As an apple is when it is first born hanged from the tree branch. When that apple is first born in and through that tree branch it is a perfect apple right?
Just not matured, grown up yet, ripe for eating correct?
This is how it is for all that do come to belief and one day see it as Paul saw it. If you do believe then as Paul saw it you willsee it to.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

It is through us that believe seek to be co-crucified with Christ back at the cross with Christ, daily, and thus see being dead to self. So that we might see the resurrected Christ in us by God having new life. or do you not yet see what scripture is sating about the war of flesh and Spirit.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The above is Baptism of the Holy Ghost with fire, where we are dead to flesh and alive to God

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So I know it is preached that we still sin because we are alive in flesh that is unredeemed.
So then maybe now you might see why Paul said to de dead to flesh sin, carnal nature and put no confidence in flesh.
Philippians 3:1 [ No Confidence in the Flesh ] Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you.
Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

So are you now seeing in God's Spirit, to consider you the self dead to flesh first with Christ at the cross?
Cause as Paul has said many a times unless you are in agreement to this and don't go through the door of co-crucifixion with Christ at his death, which is our death to flesh as well. How might we gain the power of the resurrected Christ living in us?
Philippians 3:10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death

Are you listening, it is through Christ's death, us willing to be dead to self. That we might see the resurrection in God's Spirit if God is willing to mature you in your belief that is. Depends on ones motive.
go and be cleaver with some other poor sucker thanks, doesnt wash with me,
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how is your point here have anything to do with today, is God not at work today to bring the captives home through him?

  1. Acts 2:17
    And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
    Acts 2:16-18 (in Context) Acts 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. Acts 2:18 and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

    Is God's Spirit not being poured out to this very day? Is not by the Holy Spirit of god that one comes to belief or stays in unbelief? And if one stays in unbelief then that is Blasphemy to God that is not forgiven right?
so will there be universal salvation and supernatural gifts for everyone on the planet?



c. 68AD:

Hebrews 1:2
The Supremacy of the Son

1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high