Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism

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Jan 17, 2020
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What about it? Who He is never changes, but how He has dealt with man has obviously changed through the course of history. He turned Nebuchadnezzar into a beast. Does this mean the Lord turns people into beasts today? He burned down cities with fire from heaven. Does He still do this today?
What about Revelation? Is the world presently under his 4 sore Judgments? And throughout history?
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Regardless, God caused Ahab to believe lies.
Prove your statement. Micaiah told Ahab exactly what would happen if he went up to Ramothgilead and Micaiah told Ahab the prophets were lying to Ahab ... and Ahab went up anyway.


Nope ... Ahab will not have the excuse you are giving him when he stands before God at time of judgment.

You now know the truth concerning this passage in 1 Kings 22:19-23 and you are warned from Scripture that God deals harshly with false teachers.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption




Dave-L said:
Here's another:
13 The princes of u Zoan are become fools,

x The princes of y Noph are deceived;

They have also z seduced Egypt, even || † they that are the stay of the tribes thereof.

14 The Lord hath mingled † a perverse spirit in the midst thereof: And they have z caused Egypt to err in every work thereof,
You really need to stop ripping verses out of context in order prop them up in support of your erroneous dogma.

The problem with the Egyptians was their worship of idols:

Isaiah 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.


Because the Egyptians sought their idols, charmers, familiar spirits, and wizards, the terrible burden came upon them:

Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.


But read the end of the "burden" of the Egyptians:

Isaiah 19:

20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.

22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.




Egypt shall turn from their idols, they shall quit the charmers, the familiar spirits, the wizards. They shall turn to God and God shall heal Egypt.



 
Jan 17, 2020
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Prove your statement. Micaiah told Ahab exactly what would happen if he went up to Ramothgilead and Micaiah told Ahab the prophets were lying to Ahab ... and Ahab went up anyway.

Nope ... Ahab will not have the excuse you are giving him when he stands before God at time of judgment.

You now know the truth concerning this passage in 1 Kings 22:19-23 and you are warned from Scripture that God deals harshly with false teachers.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption





You really need to stop ripping verses out of context in order prop them up in support of your erroneous dogma.

The problem with the Egyptians was their worship of idols:

Isaiah 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.


Because the Egyptians sought their idols, charmers, familiar spirits, and wizards, the terrible burden came upon them:

Isaiah 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.


But read the end of the "burden" of the Egyptians:

Isaiah 19:

20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

21 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.

22 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.



Egypt shall turn from their idols, they shall quit the charmers, the familiar spirits, the wizards. They shall turn to God and God shall heal Egypt.
“Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:23 (KJV 1900)
 
Mar 23, 2016
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“Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:23 (KJV 1900)
Already explained to you. :sleep:
 
Mar 23, 2016
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It denies God's words and says he doesn't mean what he says. Not a smart move...
Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

 
Jan 17, 2020
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Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
“Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:23 (KJV 1900)

You are saying God did not say this
 
Mar 23, 2016
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“Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:23 (KJV 1900)

You are saying God did not say this
Again, quit ripping verses out of their context and holding them up in order to support your erroneous dogma.

In 1 Kings 23:23, God revealed to Ahab that Ahab's prophets were lying to him. I have provided you with everything you need to believe the truth of Scripture.

You don't want to believe the truth of Scripture.


Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.



 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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What about Jesus the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow?
Should we still stone our kids when they bad mouth us?.....didn't think so.

These OT references discussed above are descriptive, not prescriptive
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Again, quit ripping verses out of their context and holding them up in order to support your erroneous dogma.

In 1 Kings 23:23, God revealed to Ahab that Ahab's prophets were lying to him. I have provided you with everything you need to believe the truth of Scripture.

You don't want to believe the truth of Scripture.


Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
“Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:23 (KJV 1900)

It wraps up the entire context.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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So all of the plagues and wars of history are not things John said would shortly come to pass?
Post the scripture where John says this and we can discus.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Post the scripture where John says this and we can discus.
You need to study God's four sore judgments in the OT first. So you can see them in Revelation. Found in the vials, bowels, and trumpets judgments.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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@Dave-L
@John146
The Jesus told John to write Revelation chronologically in order. Further, there are events in Revelation that simply just haven't happened yet. It's not difficult to see where we fit in the timeline. Hope this helps
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You need to study God's four sore judgments in the OT first. So you can see them in Revelation. Found in the vials, bowels, and trumpets judgments.
since you equate the body of Christ to Israel, we will never agree. The body of Christ is gone when the judgments are poured out in Revelation.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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since you equate the body of Christ to Israel, we will never agree. The body of Christ is gone when the judgments are poured out in Revelation.
Not according to Jesus.
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 (KJV 1900)
 
Mar 23, 2016
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“Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:23 (KJV 1900)

It wraps up the entire context.
All it does is it "wraps up" your complete and utter failure due to your stubborn rebellion.

Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.




 
Jan 17, 2020
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All it does is it "wraps up" your complete and utter failure due to your stubborn rebellion.

Luke 8:

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
I see it more like God doesn't measure up to the one you worship so you try to change his words into something more acceptable.
 

Diakonos

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2019
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Not according to Jesus.
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 (KJV 1900)
Jesus' is using the word generically, not describing the event. And you know that because the apostles didn't go through the tribulation period. There is no indication of this whatsoever.

We can apply the false logic to Matthew 2:15 and see the outcome: "Out of Egypt, I called my Son"... Just because eklessia is used, that doesn't mean Jesus IS the Church. He cannot be His own Bride, that is just ludicrous.

In John 16, Jesus is using this word generically, not specifically. He would have used the definite article if He was indicating the event of the tribulation.