Colossians 1:15-17 and Oneness Pentecostals
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God is a Holy Spirit.That is what God is a Holy Spirit.The Bible mentions the Spirit in Genesis that moved upon the deep,Jesus was conceived by the Spirit,and the Spirit leads us.
Before God created anything He is a Holy Spirit.
When we mention Holy Spirit we are saying what God is a Holy Spirit,and it is God working invisibly which He does by His Spirit.
When God the Holy Spirit created mankind He became the Father of all who would follow Him,and the Father of all spirits who go back to Him regardless of how the person acted on earth.
Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit.
When we mention Father we are saying God is our parent.
Man needed a savior but no man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to His Son,the man Christ Jesus,and provided salvation for mankind.The Bible says God laid down His life for us,and the Holy Spirit purchased the Church with His own blood.
The Son,is the man Christ Jesus.
The Son is God working among mankind visibly,for He is God with us.
When we mention the Son we are saying that God the Father showed us a visible manifestation of Himself.
The Son is God the Father's visible relationship to the saints.
The Holy Spirit is God the Father's invisible relationship to the saints.
There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit.The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
God the Father wants a relationship with His children where they can see Him visibly,so God glorified the man Christ Jesus,and Jesus Christ is the way the saints will see the invisible Father for eternity.
The Bible does say that there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne.
The Bible says it is the throne of both God and the Lamb.God and the Lamb share the same throne,God the Father in the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus.
3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever(Revelation 22:3-5).
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof(Revelation 21:22-23).
These scriptures state that the throne in heaven is the throne of both God and the Lamb.They shall see God the Father's face as God the Father sits on the throne in the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus.
The Lamb is the light that will light the New Jerusalem.God the Father will shine out of the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus,and light the New Jerusalem.
Matt
Before God created anything He is a Holy Spirit.
When we mention Holy Spirit we are saying what God is a Holy Spirit,and it is God working invisibly which He does by His Spirit.
When God the Holy Spirit created mankind He became the Father of all who would follow Him,and the Father of all spirits who go back to Him regardless of how the person acted on earth.
Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit.
When we mention Father we are saying God is our parent.
Man needed a savior but no man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to His Son,the man Christ Jesus,and provided salvation for mankind.The Bible says God laid down His life for us,and the Holy Spirit purchased the Church with His own blood.
The Son,is the man Christ Jesus.
The Son is God working among mankind visibly,for He is God with us.
When we mention the Son we are saying that God the Father showed us a visible manifestation of Himself.
The Son is God the Father's visible relationship to the saints.
The Holy Spirit is God the Father's invisible relationship to the saints.
There is only one God who is a Holy Spirit.Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit.The Son is the man Christ Jesus.
God the Father wants a relationship with His children where they can see Him visibly,so God glorified the man Christ Jesus,and Jesus Christ is the way the saints will see the invisible Father for eternity.
The Bible does say that there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne.
The Bible says it is the throne of both God and the Lamb.God and the Lamb share the same throne,God the Father in the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus.
3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever(Revelation 22:3-5).
22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof(Revelation 21:22-23).
These scriptures state that the throne in heaven is the throne of both God and the Lamb.They shall see God the Father's face as God the Father sits on the throne in the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus.
The Lamb is the light that will light the New Jerusalem.God the Father will shine out of the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus,and light the New Jerusalem.
Matt
C
One is an adjective. The question is , one what? In Genesis it speaks of the marital relationship, how two can be one. No one would propose that our individual personalities cease to exist during intimacy, only that there is a profound unity. Likewise Jesus says, Father make them one as you and I are one. No one would propose that our personalities cease to exist when we have spiritual unity amoung believers.
There is a profound unity of will and purpose within the co-unity of the trinity, perhaps a unity that exceeds our own internal unity. We are double minded at times, easily turned aside from our wills, often unsure even when we decide. Not so with God. There is no disagreement between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Schma reflects that profound unity. The New Testament reveals that it is a compound unity of three persons.
There is a profound unity of will and purpose within the co-unity of the trinity, perhaps a unity that exceeds our own internal unity. We are double minded at times, easily turned aside from our wills, often unsure even when we decide. Not so with God. There is no disagreement between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Schma reflects that profound unity. The New Testament reveals that it is a compound unity of three persons.
Hi Studentfor God,
The big problem here is that we the creatures try and thing God the creator is like us. thus we find it hard to understand one yet three. first of all you need to understand..'what constitutes a person'
God has shown progressively through scripture of Himself. all three of the Godhead are one, yet three persons, they share the same essence and attributes each as God.. notice they are not seperate Gods but the Lord God is one! This triune God has been the God of all since before time, and is the christian God. the big problem is if you do not worship the triune God, and you do not recognise Jesus as a person of the trinity and the Holy Spirit as a person of the one God, then what God are you actually serving.
Some deny the triune God and like TD Jakes, use subtle wording like 'One God' three manisfestations... if you read his statement of Faith... it almost has the ring of Triunity, but has always been rejected as a false belief right from the start.
We serve One God, in three persons, perfectly coequal, co-eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscience all three are God.
They are not mear manisfetations of the Father, they are God themselves. Jesus is Not the Father, just as the Father is not Jesus, they are one in essence, not easy to understand.
It is the very fact that the trinity although the full truth of scripture, is not very easy to understand, nor will we ever be able to fathom out the depths of God. but those of the oneness, or those who deny the trinity are nothing new its basically a form of modalism. they try and figure out the the Godhead by human means and not scripture hence we get a doctrine from them that is not the God of christianity.
Blesings
Phil
That is right, studentforGod, the Jews reject Christianity not only because of the trinity, but they rejected Jesus Himself, if you take note in scripture, read Galatians carefully along with Act's 15, and you will see that Judaism had been replaced, by the New Covenant, that is in Christ, a New movement by the Spirit and not the Law.
You say if God wanted to show them something clearly He would.. Now we have to be careful here.. How did the jews percieve their Messiah? It was written in Scripture, did they get it right? No!
God has shown Himself clearly as One, no doubts about yet just reading the bible there is a plurality, infact you dont have to go far, just read the first 2 chapters of Genesis. and you will see this. God is not unitarian.
Just as a note, we do not read the bible through Jewish eyes, remember this, they had rejected God.. did they not reject Jesus? so the trinity isnt even a matter for them, they at that time plainly rejected God, and still do so. yet there are Jews coming to Christ becoming believers and experincing the truth of the Triune God.
Blesings
Phil
You say if God wanted to show them something clearly He would.. Now we have to be careful here.. How did the jews percieve their Messiah? It was written in Scripture, did they get it right? No!
God has shown Himself clearly as One, no doubts about yet just reading the bible there is a plurality, infact you dont have to go far, just read the first 2 chapters of Genesis. and you will see this. God is not unitarian.
Just as a note, we do not read the bible through Jewish eyes, remember this, they had rejected God.. did they not reject Jesus? so the trinity isnt even a matter for them, they at that time plainly rejected God, and still do so. yet there are Jews coming to Christ becoming believers and experincing the truth of the Triune God.
Blesings
Phil
R
All
What we see here is several who have a clear understanding of just Who God is. And several who cannot see this, so the debate goes on and on. Those who understand this;
Myself
mpaper345
studentofgod
DMurray
Forerunner......if I have left any out, first forgive me then declare who you are.
All this talk and nothing is being accomplished by going verse for verse. Ok, I will start a new thread in an attempt for the Trinity Advocates to attempt to see who/what God really is. This is the only way so they can see How The Lord is One and not 3 different Persons. Folks we ALL need to remember this one thing; there are hundreds of people reading our Posts and bickering or arguing is accomplishing Nothing. In reality, it is turning people off, and is not what God wants us to do.
When we accuse this group or that beleif of something not true, then the other side responds negatively, and it turns others off., most especially all the Newbies here. Let me ATTEMPT (Tongue in cheek) to break down The Oneness versus Trinity beleif. I will start a thread entitled "Oneness/Trinity conflict?" Ok here I go....
What we see here is several who have a clear understanding of just Who God is. And several who cannot see this, so the debate goes on and on. Those who understand this;
Myself
mpaper345
studentofgod
DMurray
Forerunner......if I have left any out, first forgive me then declare who you are.
All this talk and nothing is being accomplished by going verse for verse. Ok, I will start a new thread in an attempt for the Trinity Advocates to attempt to see who/what God really is. This is the only way so they can see How The Lord is One and not 3 different Persons. Folks we ALL need to remember this one thing; there are hundreds of people reading our Posts and bickering or arguing is accomplishing Nothing. In reality, it is turning people off, and is not what God wants us to do.
When we accuse this group or that beleif of something not true, then the other side responds negatively, and it turns others off., most especially all the Newbies here. Let me ATTEMPT (Tongue in cheek) to break down The Oneness versus Trinity beleif. I will start a thread entitled "Oneness/Trinity conflict?" Ok here I go....
Hi Ricke,
I am afraid that you are seriously wrong on this matter, History tells us that you believe in a heretical doctrine. it is as simple as that. Even the mainstream Pentecostals disagree with your doctrines on oneness, as testifies the whole of Christian History.
But I truly await your new post
Blessings
Phil
I am afraid that you are seriously wrong on this matter, History tells us that you believe in a heretical doctrine. it is as simple as that. Even the mainstream Pentecostals disagree with your doctrines on oneness, as testifies the whole of Christian History.
But I truly await your new post
Blessings
Phil
C
You have set up a list? So, there are some whom are blacklisted who cannot contribute because you have decided who discerns and doesn't discern the nature of God. The very thing that you have criticized AoG regarding has now become your trump card? When all arguments fail, just put out a list of who has the approved view and who must be censored, shunned or ignored?
S
Ok I don’t pretend to know everything about the Godhead but if someone read the bible with absolute no preconceptions they would come to the conclusion of the oneness of God. It is only common sense. don't get me wrong I understand that you base your beliefs on biblical theory (if I haven’t done my own research I would be and you were to tell me all of the scriptures here than I would believe in the trinity) but the bible says in fact that Jesus is the father Son and Holy ghost ,For in him dwelleth ALL the FULNESS of the Godhead bodily. Some of you have to agree with me that it would be very hard for a person to come to the conclusion of the trinity without being taught it. Oneness is just common sense.
I hope this doesn’t offend anyone I know this can be a topic people hold very close to their heart but I also know that most if not all of the people posting on this topic have good intention but one of us are wrong. I don’t know everything and nobody else here does either. even though I don’t think I am wrong, I pray that if I am God will make it right and I hope everyone else here has the same mindset.
I hope this doesn’t offend anyone I know this can be a topic people hold very close to their heart but I also know that most if not all of the people posting on this topic have good intention but one of us are wrong. I don’t know everything and nobody else here does either. even though I don’t think I am wrong, I pray that if I am God will make it right and I hope everyone else here has the same mindset.
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C
The theology of the nature of the Godhead came about because of the preaching and teaching of the New Testament. If you approach scripture with faith but no presuppositions you would start by understanding the unity of the Godhead, then be puzzled by the relationship of Jesus to the Father, then settle on some sort of trinitarianism. That is what happened in the first century church and what would happen now.
R
Phil 36
Like everyone,-,you can say whatever you think. I can also do the same.
Trinity is an invention of mankind through Carnal Thinking. The Holy Ghost filled Apostles never, ever referred to The Father, Son, or Holy Ghost as three different persons or personalities. I Timothy 3 v 16 is plain as day, "God was Manifested in THE FLESh......." Did God give up being a Spirit and become a Human?....NO. Did Got create another God or Lord? ........ NO. Well is The Flesh another " person" with individuality like we do from our Fathers?....No.
Like everyone,-,you can say whatever you think. I can also do the same.
Trinity is an invention of mankind through Carnal Thinking. The Holy Ghost filled Apostles never, ever referred to The Father, Son, or Holy Ghost as three different persons or personalities. I Timothy 3 v 16 is plain as day, "God was Manifested in THE FLESh......." Did God give up being a Spirit and become a Human?....NO. Did Got create another God or Lord? ........ NO. Well is The Flesh another " person" with individuality like we do from our Fathers?....No.
C
Well, let's start with my personal favorite: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." John 14:26.
Notice how Jesus refers to the Father and the Holy Spirit as separate persons. so here are your choices:
1. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God.
2. Jesus is talking to Himself.
3. God is not One.
4. The scriptures are corrupt.
5. Some form of trinitarianism.
Oh yes--the writer of this gospel: John, one of the original apostles. Up next is Matthew.
Notice how Jesus refers to the Father and the Holy Spirit as separate persons. so here are your choices:
1. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God.
2. Jesus is talking to Himself.
3. God is not One.
4. The scriptures are corrupt.
5. Some form of trinitarianism.
Oh yes--the writer of this gospel: John, one of the original apostles. Up next is Matthew.
C
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19.
Simple English grammar (holds true in Greek also): If it was one person it would be "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit", and even then it wouldn't require that it be one person.
And the human writer? Matthew, one of the original apostles.
Next up, Peter.
Simple English grammar (holds true in Greek also): If it was one person it would be "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit", and even then it wouldn't require that it be one person.
And the human writer? Matthew, one of the original apostles.
Next up, Peter.
C
"Who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, thath you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood." I Peter 1:2
Note again how the three persons of the Trinity are clearly separated from one another and referred to as three separate persons.
The human author? Peter, the leader of the original apostles.
Next up, Paul.
Note again how the three persons of the Trinity are clearly separated from one another and referred to as three separate persons.
The human author? Peter, the leader of the original apostles.
Next up, Paul.
C
"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." Ephesians 4:4-6.
Notice that there are three separate mentionings: Spirit, Lord, God. If the original belief was some strong form of unitarianism, Paul would have never made that statement, especially considering his training in Jewish theology.
The author--Paul. You may question his apostleship if you wish.
Next up: Luke.
Notice that there are three separate mentionings: Spirit, Lord, God. If the original belief was some strong form of unitarianism, Paul would have never made that statement, especially considering his training in Jewish theology.
The author--Paul. You may question his apostleship if you wish.
Next up: Luke.
C
"Now it came about when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also was baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a boice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
Notice we have Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father.
The author, Luke. Not an apostle, but he did write one of the gospels and Acts which must count for something.
Next up, Mark.
Notice we have Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father.
The author, Luke. Not an apostle, but he did write one of the gospels and Acts which must count for something.
Next up, Mark.
C
"And it came about in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descended upon Him; and a voice came out of the heavens: You are My beloved Son, in You I am well pleased."
Same as Luke, only Mark was Jewish, so that counts for something.
Next up, the writer of Hebrews.
Same as Luke, only Mark was Jewish, so that counts for something.
Next up, the writer of Hebrews.