Concerning Time and a Few Thougts

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BeyondET

Guest
#41
I've always found this interesting scripture mentions the sun shadow went back ten steps on Ahaz stairway why do people say it means a sun dial. The sun can do all that shadow moving without the earth needing to stop spinning that's how a sundial works it's a stationary object on the spinning planet that measures..
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#42
Its interesting for sure. But if the electricity stops, I wonder how men would have atoms keep telling them whether it is daytime where they reside or if it is before or after noontime.☺
I know what you mean, yes no electricity no mech measures but if that happens then all people would have to start making sun dials for day time and looking at the Big Dipper at night for night time. Or keep winding up that style of clock hehe..
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#43
Hey I'd like one of those fancy wrist hour glass devices that would cool lol..
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#44
Interesting God created time in many manners to measure through out the universe and allows the human race to finite that time as he choices either by the sun moon stars or even down to the atom... time as we know it has been created from mostly mans will to know it the best he can. Proof of this is the knowledge of a minute to second humans determine that measure in what ever they want. 60 minutes in a hour could have been 30 minutes in hour, A day didn't have to mean 24 hours a day could have been measured at 48 hour intervals, 4 weeks in a month could have been 5 weeks in a month etc...
 
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#45
Rev. The Theme of the Book

“I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet” (Revelation 1:10).

A single verse thunders to us the theme of this book: the gloomy Day of the Lord.
Yet people stumble over this verse—causing them to misunderstand the entire message!


Revelation 1:10 and over 30 other prophecies mention the terrible
Day of the Lord that will decisively conclude [this age]! not the world

The Prophet Zephaniah says this time is hastening greatly, or exceedingly!

The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice
of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly” (Zephaniah 1:13-14).


Notice the phrase “the voice.” The Bible is a lot more specific than people think.
A Zephaniah type is delivering a strong warning about the Day of the Lord today.

“The voice” precedes the arrival of the Day of the Lord,
which is now speeding toward us as fast as a rocket launching into space.


“And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand
to heaven,And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and
the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea,
and the things which are therein,

that there should be time no longer” (Revelation 10:5-6).


“Time no longer” should be “no more delay.”
A specific event took place that caused world events to speed up rapidly.

-

“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil,
and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth,
and his angels were cast out with him” (Revelation 12:9).


God cast down Satan and confined him to this Earth. Satan and his demons are
no longer free to roam the universe, so they have been creating chaos in this
world like mankind has never seen before!
I very much enjoyed your post!
In eternity though, there really is no concept of time. Because it goes on forever, time doesn't really...exist.
So even if someone gets that thought from what is sort of not the best translation, they really aren't so far off or out there, you know?
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#46
Time does exists in the physical no relevance in the Eterntal, the most impact on time is gravity it affects the time thoughtout the universe.. The law of gravity is proof time is relevant in the physical world... Less gravity and a object will fall slower more gravity and the same object will fall faster..
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#47
The Bible states the following....

a. God is light and dwells in light. <---The "be" verb shows state of being.....God is a being of light, that is spiritual, astral, ethereal, celestial that also dwells in light <---the words used are also descriptive of our resurrected bodies that will also dwell in light.

b. God is eternal and described as the "lofty one that inhabits eternity".....God, being a being of light that dwells in light, dwells in a permanent state of eternity...because it is proven the faster you go time slows and then stops when you hit the speed of light=a state of being eternal or a permanent state of eternity.


c. God can manipulate time at will like the hands on a clock...he can move it forward, backward, stop it, slow it and move between his ETERNAL realm of Light into and out of the Physical realm of time. At the end of the day, our atoms and molecules are vibrating at a much slower speed than God...hence our physical, temporal state of being as opposed to the realm of God which is LIGHT and Eternal...<---the two accounts of Hezekiah and Joshua proves the ability of God to manipulate time.


d. 1000 years with God is listed in three ways....a) As but yesterday b) A watch in the night (three hours) c) As a day

Without a doubt these are used to show that God is not subject unto time or is he.......?

God is a God of timing, and when Jesus walked the earth as a man, and on numerous occasions when they attempted to seize him but could not because it was not yet time. Even the will and plan of the Heavenly Father is based upon time. At the sounding of the 7th trump, it states clearly that TIME SHALL BE NO MORE.

Even the verses which speak to the beast being revealed IN HIS TIME somewhat speaks to this element of timing....

What do you all think about Peter's use of HASTENING the coming of the day of GOD..........?

Is God constrained by his unchanging nature and character as applied unto time and the plan to work out man's redemption?

Anyway, just some points to ponder about time, eternity, God and the word HASTENING........
I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think God uses time like we do. I think that he sets time by his own will and there is a time or a season and purpose for everything (ECCLESIASTICS 3). I know people have referenced the day of the Lord, in my opinion that’s probably not going to be a 24 hour thing. Scripture says that of the hour and day knows no man. That could be because we cannot calculate or see or understand time in God’s way.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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#48
The concept of time is interesting. However, like I said in my first post, I don’t know if God really looks at time as we do. I think he is only interested in what we use our time for not the hours, minutes, or seconds. We are not instructed to calculate time, but to be patient and wait for God’s time. However, we are instructed to redeem the time because the days are evil. I think this means to use our time wisely and for the good like meditating on God, witnessing to others, helping others, and spending time with our loved ones, and not worrying or stressing over time or deadlines that we place on things.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#49
What is a “Time”? For it is basic to several key prophecies.
a prophetic “time” is a 360-day year.

Why not a year of 3651/4 days? Why not a solar year?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#50
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#51
I've always found this interesting scripture mentions the sun shadow went back ten steps on Ahaz stairway why do people say it means a sun dial. The sun can do all that shadow moving without the earth needing to stop spinning that's how a sundial works it's a stationary object on the spinning planet that measures..
I think people USED the steps as a sundial/watch. In that case it could be said to be a sundial even though its not the traditional shape of an actual sundial. When I walk by many different things in my yard, if I've been out there reading or writing and time got away from me, I can pretty accurately guesstimate the time as I walk by those objects and see the suns current effect on them and what shadow and where is produced. I can even use the carpeting in my living room as a sundial by where the sun shines on it and how short or long the swath of sunshine is. If that swath continues in a line even to hit the wall, it is before 10 a.m. and if it's only hitting the very bottom of the wall, it is 9:45.

So at some point after 12 p.m. the steps of my house begin, one by one, to have no sunshine on them at all because the house begins to block the sun hitting the steps. It would be pretty amazing to see this suddenly go in reverse! It would mean the earth shifted into reverse! But the time could be very accurately gauged by my steps and with a few markings, I could be even more accurate and could legitimately call my steps a sundial of nontraditional shape! But after noon, I would have to use the sundial steps on the back of the house. ☺
 
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#52
I know what you mean, yes no electricity no mech measures but if that happens then all people would have to start making sun dials for day time and looking at the Big Dipper at night for night time. Or keep winding up that style of clock hehe..
Even with the moon, just as with the sun, I can be asleep in the recliner and know pretty accurately how long i slept, whether ten minutes or five hours. Early evening it shines in my front windows. Then it moves to shine in the rear windows. And when it goes below the distant treeline, it's time to make coffee and by the time I arrive back outside with steaming mug, the sky is lightening. So the moon keeps my coffee schedule haha!
 
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#54
Interesting God created time in many manners to measure through out the universe and allows the human race to finite that time as he choices either by the sun moon stars or even down to the atom... time as we know it has been created from mostly mans will to know it the best he can. Proof of this is the knowledge of a minute to second humans determine that measure in what ever they want. 60 minutes in a hour could have been 30 minutes in hour, A day didn't have to mean 24 hours a day could have been measured at 48 hour intervals, 4 weeks in a month could have been 5 weeks in a month etc...
But we measure a day by the bible too. And then there was evening and then the third day, etc. So we didn't arbitrarily decide one cycle of sun/moon was a day. ☺
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#55
But we measure a day by the bible too. And then there was evening and then the third day, etc. So we didn't arbitrarily decide one cycle of sun/moon was a day. ☺
Here's a interesting fact about the human body, minors and people who have spent a lot of time underground without no visual signs of the sun rise or sunset the moon or anything, still the body knows when the sun rises and sets for these people have slept and been awake in complete darkness 24hours a day but can wake with the sun rise their eyes can't see under ground..
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#56
But we measure a day by the bible too. And then there was evening and then the third day, etc. So we didn't arbitrarily decide one cycle of sun/moon was a day. ☺
Right on, like Jesus answered in John 11:9 wherein it is written, are there not twelve hours in the day?

But this Saturday morning look up towards the SW since the moon will be visible during daytime hours, I guess the moon didn't know it would have to work a rotating shift. Bummer.


I've always found this interesting scripture mentions the sun shadow went back ten steps on Ahaz stairway why do people say it means a sun dial. The sun can do all that shadow moving without the earth needing to stop spinning that's how a sundial works it's a stationary object on the spinning planet that measures..
I would like to hear your source that says the sun shadow went back ten steps on Ahaz's stairway. Where does it say that the earth stop spinning?

And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. 2 Kings 20:11

Maybe ole Isaiah simply adjusted the position of the dial to account for the declination which occurs naturally due to the earth's position relative to the sun. Even today if your property survey says starting from the POB to follow an azimuth of 275% for 1,000 yards, if it was recorded years back then if you follow a bearing of 275% you probably won't find the survey stake since depending on the certain factors the bearing could be off as much as 10%.

They say the magnetic compass wasn't invented until well after the Pyramids of Giza were built yet they are perfectly aligned with each side of the pyramids facing due N, S, E & W. Also in Genesis when Adam & Eve were driven out of the garden of Eden a Cherubim was set on the at the east gate to keep the the way of the tree of life. The sphinx is situated on the east side of the pyramids, facing east. And of course the sun rises in the east. Interesting how they would have had foreknowledge of the directional points for a compass that had yet to be invented.

But if you would, can you give that source for the stairwell scriptures?
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#57
Right on, like Jesus answered in John 11:9 wherein it is written, are there not twelve hours in the day?

But this Saturday morning look up towards the SW since the moon will be visible during daytime hours, I guess the moon didn't know it would have to work a rotating shift. Bummer.




I would like to hear your source that says the sun shadow went back ten steps on Ahaz's stairway. Where does it say that the earth stop spinning?

And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. 2 Kings 20:11

Maybe ole Isaiah simply adjusted the position of the dial to account for the declination which occurs naturally due to the earth's position relative to the sun. Even today if your property survey says starting from the POB to follow an azimuth of 275% for 1,000 yards, if it was recorded years back then if you follow a bearing of 275% you probably won't find the survey stake since depending on the certain factors the bearing could be off as much as 10%.

They say the magnetic compass wasn't invented until well after the Pyramids of Giza were built yet they are perfectly aligned with each side of the pyramids facing due N, S, E & W. Also in Genesis when Adam & Eve were driven out of the garden of Eden a Cherubim was set on the at the east gate to keep the the way of the tree of life. The sphinx is situated on the east side of the pyramids, facing east. And of course the sun rises in the east. Interesting how they would have had foreknowledge of the directional points for a compass that had yet to be invented.

But if you would, can you give that source for the stairwell scriptures?
I think I was looking at the NASV 1977 but here are the verse from are the top bibles in use. Read back at what I said basically scripture doesn't say anything about the earth stopping so the verse IMO it is not referring to a stationary object on earth like a sun dial or a stairway...

New International Version
I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the ten steps it has gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.'" So the sunlight went back the ten steps it had gone down.

New Living Translation
I will cause the sun's shadow to move ten steps backward on the sundial of Ahaz!'" So the shadow on the sundial moved backward ten steps.

English Standard Version
Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.” So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined.

New American Standard Bible
"Behold, I will cause the shadow on the stairway, which has gone down with the sun on the stairway of Ahaz, to go back ten steps." So the sun's shadow went back ten steps on the stairway on which it had gone down.

King James Bible
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I am going to make the sun's shadow that goes down on Ahaz's stairway go back by 10 steps." So the sun's shadow went back the 10 steps it had descended.

International Standard Version
Watch! I will make the shadow on the steps of the upper dial of Ahaz that marks the sun go ten steps backwards."'" Then the sunlight turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had gone down.

NET Bible
Look, I will make the shadow go back ten steps on the stairs of Ahaz." And then the shadow went back ten steps.

New Heart English Bible
Behold, I will cause the shadow on the steps, which has gone down with the sun on the upper steps of Ahaz, to go backward ten steps. So the sun returned ten steps on the sundial on which it had gone down."'"

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The sun made a shadow that went down the stairway of Ahaz's upper palace. I'm going to make the shadow go back ten steps." So the sun on the stairway went back up the ten steps it had gone down.

JPS Tanakh 1917
behold, I will cause the shadow of the dial, which is gone down on the sun-dial of Ahaz, to return backward ten degrees.' So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

New American Standard 1977
“Behold, I will cause the shadow on the stairway, which has gone down with the sun on the stairway of Ahaz, to go back ten steps.” So the sun’s shadow went back ten steps on the stairway on which it had gone down.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

King James 2000 Bible
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which has gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it had gone down.

American King James Version
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.

American Standard Version
behold, I will cause the shadow on the steps, which is gone down on the dial of Ahaz with the sun, to return backward ten steps. So the sun returned ten steps on the dial whereon it was gone down.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold I will bring again the shadow of the lines, by which it is now gone down in the sun dial of Achaz with the sun, ten lines backward. And the sun returned ten lines by the degrees by which it was gone down.

Darby Bible Translation
behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees which hath gone down with the sun on the dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned on the dial ten degrees, by which it had gone down.

English Revised Version
behold, I will cause the shadow on the steps, which is gone down on the dial of Ahaz with the sun, to return backward ten steps. So the sun returned ten steps on the dial whereon it was gone down.

Webster's Bible Translation
Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which hath gone down on the sun-dial of Ahaz ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it had gone down.

World English Bible
Behold, I will cause the shadow on the sundial, which has gone down on the sundial of Ahaz with the sun, to return backward ten steps. So the sun returned ten steps on the sundial on which it had gone down."'"
 
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#58
I think it would be harder to raise a dead body than to turn the earth backward in it's rotation a bit. If He can raise a dead person He can surely rotate the earth slightly. My daddy's HUGE.:)
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#59
I think I disagree. The sun and moon were MADE for the marking of the passing of time. We have no way to gauge time other than by them. If it is suddenly 8 a.m. instead of 1 p.m., then you will be reliving the previous 5 hours again. Whether you want to describe time as a thing, a dimension or a curse - if you relive 5 hours of it, you went backwards in it.
What you just described is a MEASUREMENT of time... not time itself.

The thing you use to measure is not the same at the thing you are measuring.
- A yard stick is not the same as the yard of fabric you are measuring.
- A clock is not the same as the time you are measuring with it.
- When you change your clock for Daylight Saving Time... are you actually CHANGING THE FLOW OF THE DIMENSION CALLED "TIME"... or are you just changing your clock?


This is VERY BASIC LOGIC, and VERY BASIC SCIENCE.
- if I point out simple basic logic, and simple basic science... and you just want to disagree because "you think it ain't so"... there is nothing left for me to say.
- Go to any science teacher, anywhere, and ask him if there is a difference between the SUN, and the DIMENSION WE CALL TIME.

I'm not trying to be unkind.
But this is just too silly to even debate.
It isn't a matter of opinion.
They just aren't the same thing.

Go ask a scientist.
Ask any scientist anywhere... find a christian scientist... it doesn't matter.
Go ask a scientist.

Go to any high school, and ask any science teacher with any science degree at all.

If you don't trust scientists, ask any philosophy major, who's trained in logic.

If you don't like scientists or philosophers, go ask any English major, who's trained at reading CAREFULLY.

* Again, I'm not trying to be unkind, but logic and science don't just STOP because we have an OPINION.
* God did a great and mighty miracle... there is no harm in trying to properly understand what he actually did.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
#60
I think it would be harder to raise a dead body than to turn the earth backward in it's rotation a bit. If He can raise a dead person He can surely rotate the earth slightly. My daddy's HUGE.:)
Yup Popa is big, though the earth never turned backwards it was the sun shadow moved ten degrees on a dial or ten steps down the stairway which ever bible one looks at that verse... But no bible mentions the earth stopping on dime turn back degrees...