Consult Paul Abide in Yeshua, Jesus

JaumeJ · Oct 13, 2012

You have been informed of all. Your constant repitition of questions you have already asked and ignored replies to is simply another indication of your hostility towards anyone who is not in agreement with you. I am in agreement with Yeshua, and you cannot change this. Inquisitional tactics may look good to some who are not in the light, but never to those who walk in the light of Yeshua.
Your first sentence is hostile, your judging is obvious, and so once more. Do not address me directly, I am not tired of your act, however I am wise to it, and it is not profitable for learning or teaching. Stop molesting others in the CCR. Thank you.

Red33 · Oct 13, 2012

JaumeJ said:

The word you chose in using 'molest' is just an example of the kind of negative words you have used against others that create a word picture others have come to abhor and be horrified by. That is evil and you have done it many times over with others. You don't like the facts of what is in your heart in relationship to the law and grace and especially concerning the teachings of Paul. You know I am right on target and you deny it because you do not want to be found out by those who you have a rapport with or who esteem you. Paul received all that we have written from the Lord Jesus Christ through the Spirit. Every word of what Paul wrote is under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and anything of His opinion or judgment he is quick to label for those that would read his epistle. Even those things are considered to be experiential wisdom and good for the edification of the church.

It bothers you greatly to speak of Paul in this manner but it's in your Bible and for all to read. You are in agreement with Yeshua but not with the writings of Paul, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, and in doing so you cause division in the mind of Christ that is reflected in His body. In your purposeful eye they take a back seat and are not needed to live a life in Yeshua. This is where you have engaged an unruly judgment in you evaluations of the whole counsel of scripture and you have divided the word and assigned your own weight and value to certain portion of scriptures. This is why you have never allowed grace and the new covenant to supersede the law and the old covenant and for that you are in great error. Call this hostile all you want but it would only reveal the fleshly mind that you are engaged. Selah!

JaumeJ · Oct 13, 2012

You know what is in my heart? You do not think much of yourself, do you?

I notice you close your rant with "selah."

It seems you have put yourself in the place of the Father and of the Son, for only the Father knows what is in the hearts of men, and the Psalms, credited mostly to David, are written in the Spirit with the word selah at the end of many. Are you now ranking yourself with the Psalmists?

You have told others in this forum what is in their hearts and what they believe, however I have noticed one common denominator in all your satanical finger pointing, you have not read what they have posted.

Yeshua loves you, and His Blood is there to cleanse you of all, providing you accept His free gift. I have. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and His blood covers me to salvation, amen.
שלה

Red33 · Oct 13, 2012

JaumeJ said:

It would be so good and refreshing just to hear you be honest, perhaps then God would give you grace and your eyes would be opened to things that your heart has been blinded to. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and the word is quick, powerful and sharp, discerning the throughts and intents of the heart. Is does not take much to know what is in the heart of man when you are quickened by the word as it dwells richly in the heart for the Holy Spirit to reveal what is in ma's heart.

psychomom · Oct 13, 2012

JaumeJ said:

But to "consult Paul" is to abide in the teachings of the Master, my dear friend.

Of course our Savior is Jesus (Yeshua)! ♥

I think what makes it difficult for your readers is that it can be seen to imply that the words of Paul are the words of Paul...except that they're not, they are the Word(s) of God. (unless explicitly stated, and even then, I think God is present.)
It always puzzles me when people say "John said" or "Peter said"...I mean, I know that what they most likely refer to is the emanuensis God used. But to me (and I think to you, too) every Word of our Bible is THE Word. The words of the old covenant point to the Savior, and the words of the new covenant show us the new and better Way we are to follow--Jesus.

That word used for 'new' in the new covenant writings is the Greek 'kainé' and it carries with it something superior to what came before in every way.
How gracious of our God to give us that, too, in addition to all else He has blessed us with!

I do pray peace, gentle men, and the abundant, love-filled grace of God. And let him who has ears to hear....

love,
ellie

RickShafer · Oct 13, 2012

Boy Red, you really hate Jaume.
I still have a bigger problem with positive thinking preachers.
Jaume trusts in Jesus,
you trust in Jesus.........what's the prob.?

JaumeJ · Oct 13, 2012

Red33 said:

I confess, using the more known name of Yeshua, Jesus Christ is my Lord. Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that He is Lord. His precious Blood cleanses me of all sin. Out of the abundance of the heart, soul and mind comes this confession. Do you confess any of this? The Blood of Yeshua is there for all who will accept His blessed sacrifice for sin. Accept His sacrifice. This will bring you together with His flock.

JaumeJ · Oct 13, 2012

One critical point about your contributions to just about any thread, RED, you take them all off subject.

Now, the title of my initial thread explains everything about what I believe about Yeshua and Paul. You have not been able to digest even the title. What does this say about your so-called spiritual prowess? Not anything good that is certain.

Try reading the title of the thread. Then, try to understand it. It really is not so profound.

Red33 · Oct 13, 2012

JaumeJ said:

Let's take a given subject and do some comparing on the teachings of both concerning the mystery of Christ and the church according to (Mt 16:18, Eph 5:25,32). JaumeJ, you can go first and according to the words that came from the lips of Christ, show us all that Yeshua taught concerning the church and His relationship to it. You can't use any on the scriptures in the NT except for the gospels and any direct quotes that were made by the apostles. Then, I will go into what Paul taught in his epistles and from this we can compare and evaluate what both taught about Christ and the church and how it applies to the believer. That seems fair and it stays within the framework and intentions of the OP.

JaumeJ · Oct 13, 2012

Red33 said:

You are avoiding the Blood of Jesus Christ and confessing He is your Savior, that He has died and risen from the dead to be seated at the right Hand of Power. You are also avoiding reading, understanding and demonstrating your understanding of the title of the post. You have shown no love in my direction, and I have witnessed you doing the same with others in this forum. How can I accept anything, coming from you when you have demonstrated hatred in this room? I certainly cannot take anything you post here as being in the Holy Spirit of Love, so do not expect any exchange from my side. Light has nothing to do with darkness, and love has nothing to do with hatred. I use the name Jesus Christ here for your benefit. His original name is Yeshua, and I have found if I use His original name it sends you over the edge. You must abide in the Original Olive, for we are nourished from its roots.

Red33 · Oct 13, 2012

JaumeJ said:

I am thrilled that you use the name of Jesus Christ, but you should use it for the sake of the unbelieving Gentiles, who call upon that name for salvation. I am cleansed by the blood of Christ and have been since I believed at 19 yrs of age and I am thankful for the lovingkindness of God that drew me and for the grace of God that saved me by faith. The law had nothing to do with it either. I have confessed His name and preached His gospel to hundreds of people here and abroad over the years and have never lost that conviction in my heart.

There is such a thing as impersonal love, which is a self sacrificial love that initiates and does not need to be reciprocated because that is the nature of 'agape' love that God is. God's love is easily misunderstood and not easily provoked because of human love that is so often substituted for the love of God. God's love does not take notice of its own and thinks no evil nor rejoices in iniquity. The name of Yeshua is for the Jews only, but not for the Gentiles. We, as branches, abide in the vine which is Christ and the Father is the husbandman. The Gentile believers are not required to abide or partake in the law or deeds in the first covenant of the children of Israel, who now are partially blind and have been cut off for a time.

There has been no hatred or demise demonstrated on my part toward you or toward any Jewish person. I have been against those that have been inclined in that manner and you are not the first that has come against me as a Jewish believer. Believe it or not. There is an innate intrinsic evil (kakos) that abides in the deceitful heart of man and there is an active evil (poneros) that conspires against another through iniquity to malign, slander and incapacitate. This is the kind of evil that David, Paul and our Lord faced in their respective ministries when they were in this world. The Lord endured this kind of 'poneros' evil with the Pharisees, the Sadducees and the scribes and was used by the Father to send His Son to be crucified by the Jews. It is an intense evil that involves many labours for the purpose to bring to an end the one it is directed at with the shooting of many arrows, darts and whiles from the devil. These are things that the believer must never give place to for in doing so they are giving place to the devil being ignorant of his devises.

JaumeJ · Oct 13, 2012

Red33 said:

This makes you my brother in Yeshua...........stop trying to make others believe every detail you believe. Sharing and teaching is one thing, but pushing your own understanding without love is not of Yeshua. As for my own salvation, it came without the law. I have found much wisdom in the law, though I am not under the curse of it. Now, if you read the theme of the thread, I have declared my position quite clearly, we are to abide in Yeshua, and consult Paul. How can this be, because Paul is given to teach, but it is the Gospel of Yeshua, nothing more, and nothing less. Please do not expect anyone to believe everything you say just because you believe it. Life in the Holy Spirit is full of determinations, but not all can be conclusions. Your technique in sharing with me has been all conclusions. A little humility in sharing is the mortar of the living stones of the Body of Yeshua. Now, I will not be having any more exchanges that are filled with accusations and recriminations. This has never formed part of my faith in Yeshua, and I am not going to get involved with such an unloving way now. Yeshua is the Way and the Truth and the Life. His is the way. All is quite simple if we do not weave or impress our human manifestations on to or in to the Gospel as given by our Lord, the only Gospel for which He died to give to us all. Thank you.

Red33 · Oct 13, 2012

JaumeJ said:

First, no one has to believe a single word of anything that you or I have to say. Second, you avoid much of what we have been given in the word as inspired through the apostle Paul. You think way too much of yourself and you forget that you were made just like the rest of us out of the dust of the ground and you and I are no more than a lump of unfinished clay at best in our humanity. You don't want to have anymore exchanges because of the subject matter you opened up in your thread. Do you think everyone is going to approach it your way and in the manner you would like to discuss it? You are staying away from the things that are relevant and pertain to the meat of your thread. It is a sacred 'snafu' for you and you don't want to talk about it because it makes you uncomfortable and uneasy because you might say something that denies the inspiration of the scriptures and you can't take that risk and run your reputation 'amuck'. What Paul teaches in the epistles is way beyond your capacity to understand in the flesh but when you are taught by a pastor-teacher that God has raised up in the church, the Spirit begins to open your understanding to the things of God regarding Christ AND the church. That's how it works under the grace of God and in the framework of Christ and the church.

JaumeJ · Oct 14, 2012

Red33 said:

From the beginning of the post, and in the title, my advice to all is to abide in Yeshua and consult Paul for learning. There is nothing more clear. When we consult anything or anyone we are seeking learning and affirmations.

You have said it, you do not have to believe me, and I do not have to believe you, thus I abide in Yeshua. Thank you for that concise termination of this conversation.

weakness · Oct 14, 2012

Paul said he speaks by the measure of the gift of Christ in him (Christ himself) so Jesus was speaking through Paul ...same Jesus, same lord.... I don't understand the wasted words over something I think we all agree with. as much as lies within us let us live peaceably with all men.

JaumeJ · Oct 14, 2012

weakness said:

As you form a member of the Body of Yeshua, so what you say when guided by our Lord is Yeshua speaking through you. I have always believed this. The words are definitely wasted since I explain my thinking in the title I gave this thread. You do not seem to be confusing the issue at all, rather you are clarifying what all should understand from the inception of this particular post. I thank you for sharing your succinct wisdom. May Yahweh, God hold you and keep you close forever in Yeshua, amen.

Abiding · Oct 14, 2012

RickShafer said:

I personally have not seen a difference in what Paul says and what Jesus said.
The only places where it might look divergent are due to misunderstandings caused by
different applications of the words as translated.
I'll reference the two biggest examples I can think of.
1). Paul said concerning marriage that it was better to stay single (if you could handle it),
because you would have more time and attention to pay to the Lord and His works.
-BUT, at the end of that statement he made it clear that he was speaking from his own heart
and he wasn't directly told thus by the Holy Spirit.
2). The famous "I allow not a woman to speak in church". This has been one of the most misunderstood
sayings of Paul.
Back in his time it was customary for the men to sit on one side of the congregation and the women to sit on the other.
During the message sometimes, (probably often), the wives would ask their husbands across the room what some certain
thing that the speaker said meant. And this would disrupt the flow of the message and interfere with the teaching.

Lastly it must be remembered that Paul used to be Saul, the Lion of the Sanhedrin.
He was brought up in the strictest sect of the pharisees and was the most zealous of his age.
Remember, he was the one almost single handedly going around destroying God's prenatal church.
Jesus had to show Himself to his face to get his attention.
Perhaps there were lingering shades legalism in some aspects of his teachings on day to day church operation.
But I personally don't see it.
After all, He was the apostle of Grace. It is clear, (at least in my mind), that as concerning grace through faith - (and even that not of
ourselves because the faith was also a gift); Paul in this truth taught and had the understanding of the Holy Spirit without measure.

Paul also said he didnt confer with man or any of the Apostles..but was personally called
and taught by the Lord. So IF your gona listen to the Lord, you better listen to Paul .

Also the Lord directed us when He said there was alot He needed to say and that He couldnt
say it at that time. That through the Holyspirit He would teach it...which includes Paul...so
i cant see that making a distinction is wise.

JaumeJ · Oct 14, 2012

Also the Lord directed us when He said there was alot He needed to say and that He couldnt
say it at that time. That through the Holyspirit He would teach it...which includes Paul...so
i cant see that making a distinction is wise.

My understanding of this declaration of Yeshua, Jesus, to the disciples is that when the Holy Spirit came into them He would teach them all they needed. Also, after our Lord raised from the tomb there were forty days of His appearing and teaching, however Paul was also sent by Him. All of this should be valid in understanding. This post does not take away from Paul in one respect however it does allow for the Twelve, who are the foundations of New Jerusalem, to be the foundation after our Lord, Himself, of course, otherwise the writings are in error, and I do not believe they are.

Red33 · Oct 14, 2012

RickShafer said:

Something put that thought and imagination in your head so you would perceive it that way. There is a definite issue that is being addressed and you don't see or discern it. I would lay my life down for him in a heartbeat but I won't compromise grace for pieces of the law that he is sentimentally attached to and there are probably others things we know nothing about because he has not made them known. To downplay the inspiration of the word that was revealed through the apostle Paul is inexcusable. You do not see JaumeJ being critical of John or Peter or James or any of the prophets or Moses or David or Solomon do you? ONLY PAUL, and so many of the Jews have a problem with him and his instructions and teachings he received of the Lord, since his conversion. The other apostles were not harassed as Paul was because he was called to preach to the Gentiles the name of Jesus and the Jews did not like that he brought a Gentile into the temple and preached against the law of Moses and to forsake it. James was even used in part in setting a trap for him through the elders at the church in Jerusalem that were still zealous of the law and got him to go through all the preparations of purification so he could enter the temple and convince the Jews that he still kept the law.

I'll make a wager that JaumeJ is offended by some of the actions and teachings that came through the apostle Paul and probably understood why the Jews from Asia and the people in the temple responded the way they did to Paul in (Acts 21) wanting to kill him. Could JaumeJ deny that those in the temple hated Paul to the point of killing him and that James and the elders in Jerusalem were partially to blame as well as Paul himself, who did not take the warning not to go from the Spirit on two separate occasions in (v.4,11,12) and also took the vow which was also done away with?

Red33 · Oct 14, 2012

JaumeJ said:

You hide behind this statement so that you can observe and honor certain aspects of the law as you desire, knowing that it is contrary to the grace of God and the new covenant that was ratified by the blood of Christ. You will not come out and confirm that Paul's writings were inspired under the breath of Almighty God through the Spirit just as all the other writers and including our Lord and Saviour. There are aspects of Paul's teachings through the Spirit that you do not understand or acknowledge and most of them have to do with the law (and the church) and because of that you do not fully understand what it means to be under the new covenant of grace or you refuse it. Your testimony of Yeshus is mingled with aspects of the law and is tainted.

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