Continuationism vs cessastionism?
- Thread starter Muskokaman
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No I want people who are putting guilt trips on people, to go out and do what they're preaching about.
It's not putting God to the test. Plus if it depends on our faith, and if God is just waitin for us to do it, then it certainly isn't putting God to any test! Its putting the person's false teaching to the test.
It's not putting God to the test. Plus if it depends on our faith, and if God is just waitin for us to do it, then it certainly isn't putting God to any test! Its putting the person's false teaching to the test.
C
I know a 20 year old girl who, up until recently, had been in a wheel chair since she was a small child. Several months ago she was completely healed and is walking today. While it may look a little awkward at first to those don't who know or understand her situation, but they didn't learn to walk for the very first time at the age of 20 either.
Here's the thing, the gifts - especially healing - does work today for those who abandoned faith in all esle except God. Christians in western society have no idea what total reliance on God really is. Whether you like it own up to it or not, our faith is in modern medicine for healing.
There's a huge difference between believing in something and believing for something. It's a completely different level of faith.
Here's the thing, the gifts - especially healing - does work today for those who abandoned faith in all esle except God. Christians in western society have no idea what total reliance on God really is. Whether you like it own up to it or not, our faith is in modern medicine for healing.
There's a huge difference between believing in something and believing for something. It's a completely different level of faith.
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I don' t think anyone is saying God doesn't heal today.
You say....
There's a huge difference between believing in something and believing for something. It's a completely different level of faith.
I say...
You seem to be putting the onus for healing and miracles on the individual Christian and their faith or lack of faith. If it truly is lack of faith, then I ask you...
Why aren't you in a hospital right now exercising your faith and raising up the sick people?
If you say I'm asking you to tempt God, then I'll say no I'm not. Because if all rests on our faith, then that means God is basically saying go ahead and do it. It's up to you! Hence there is no testing of God.
If you say that healing depends on God's timing, then that invalidates your whole message above that says the issue is our faith and reliance on God!
If you say we can't do it until God tells us to, then again, that invalidates your message above that seems to say it's just about our ability to believe.
You can't have it all ways. Either it's all resting on us and our ability to believe and you should be in a hospital right now praying for the sick, or it does indeed depend on God's timing, will and voice.
You say....
There's a huge difference between believing in something and believing for something. It's a completely different level of faith.
I say...
You seem to be putting the onus for healing and miracles on the individual Christian and their faith or lack of faith. If it truly is lack of faith, then I ask you...
Why aren't you in a hospital right now exercising your faith and raising up the sick people?
If you say I'm asking you to tempt God, then I'll say no I'm not. Because if all rests on our faith, then that means God is basically saying go ahead and do it. It's up to you! Hence there is no testing of God.
If you say that healing depends on God's timing, then that invalidates your whole message above that says the issue is our faith and reliance on God!
If you say we can't do it until God tells us to, then again, that invalidates your message above that seems to say it's just about our ability to believe.
You can't have it all ways. Either it's all resting on us and our ability to believe and you should be in a hospital right now praying for the sick, or it does indeed depend on God's timing, will and voice.
C
I personally have found that
A couple years ago I went a search for real Christianity. I joined a ministry school whose primary focus is evangelism and missionary work. There I had seen things with my own eyes that completely blew my mind. There is no doubt in my mind that God heals today however I also discovered that very few Continuationists actually possess the faith to lay hands on the sick and see them healed. I will be the first to admit that there are times when even I struggle with unbelief despite the many miracles that I have seen.
Anyways, I am completely and entirely convinced that Cessationism is a cop out, a doctrine contrived due to a complete lack of faith.
Guy's I'm not trying to bash you at all and I don't expect you to believe me. BUT if you say that you truly believe in God than you not only owe it to Him but you owe it to yourself and to those you might minister to in time to walk in the fullness of the salvation that He has so freely given you.
A couple years ago I went a search for real Christianity. I joined a ministry school whose primary focus is evangelism and missionary work. There I had seen things with my own eyes that completely blew my mind. There is no doubt in my mind that God heals today however I also discovered that very few Continuationists actually possess the faith to lay hands on the sick and see them healed. I will be the first to admit that there are times when even I struggle with unbelief despite the many miracles that I have seen.
Anyways, I am completely and entirely convinced that Cessationism is a cop out, a doctrine contrived due to a complete lack of faith.
Guy's I'm not trying to bash you at all and I don't expect you to believe me. BUT if you say that you truly believe in God than you not only owe it to Him but you owe it to yourself and to those you might minister to in time to walk in the fullness of the salvation that He has so freely given you.
C
Because most people have already made up their minds on this issue. 99.9% of people simply do not have the faith.
Besides that, have you ever tried walking into a hospital room of someone you don't know? It's not allowed.
Either way, I've addressed your question on a person level in my last post.
I'm not going to argue about this. There's nothing I could do or say to convince you anyways.
If you want truth, then you need to seek it out for yourself.
However, if you have already made up your mind, then it doesn't matter.
Besides that, have you ever tried walking into a hospital room of someone you don't know? It's not allowed.
Either way, I've addressed your question on a person level in my last post.
I'm not going to argue about this. There's nothing I could do or say to convince you anyways.
If you want truth, then you need to seek it out for yourself.
However, if you have already made up your mind, then it doesn't matter.
1
You say....
however I also discovered that very few Continuationists actually possess the faith to lay hands on the sick and see them healed.
I say...
I think they have the faith for a simple healing. They have the faith for God to transform their dead sinful nature. They have the faith that God is going to raise their dead body. Surely they have faith for a healing.
Also you act like faith starts with us. It doesn't. Faith starts with God. It's not something we conjure up. Faith is God's gift to us.
Jesus is the author of it. Not us. Hebrews 12:2
God is the one who gives us faith. Romans 12:3
Faith only arises after we hear God's voice. Romans 10.
If anyone has the mustard seed faith to believe for anything, it's because God implanted that faith in them. It's not because they failed to conjure it up on their own.
Also any scriptures dealing with lack of faith are geared toward people who didn't even have a mustard seed sized faith. It wasn't geared toward people who clearly believe he can change our sinful nature and resurrect us from the dead.
People want to take people with the simple mustard seed faith and apply all the verses about lack of faith to them. That's just misapplication of scripture.
I know I ranted away from the post I was replying to.
C
You say....
however I also discovered that very few Continuationists actually possess the faith to lay hands on the sick and see them healed.
I say...
I think they have the faith for a simple healing. They have the faith for God to transform their dead sinful nature. They have the faith that God is going to raise their dead body. Surely they have faith for a healing.
Also you act like faith starts with us. It doesn't. Faith starts with God. It's not something we conjure up. Faith is God's gift to us.
Jesus is the author of it. Not us. Hebrews 12:2
God is the one who gives us faith. Romans 12:3
Faith only arises after we hear God's voice. Romans 10.
If anyone has the mustard seed faith to believe for anything, it's because God implanted that faith in them. It's not because they failed to conjure it up on their own.
Also any scriptures dealing with lack of faith are geared toward people who didn't even have a mustard seed sized faith. It wasn't geared toward people who clearly believe he can change our sinful nature and resurrect us from the dead.
People want to take people with the simple mustard seed faith and apply all the verses about lack of faith to them. That's just misapplication of scripture.
I know I ranted away from the post I was replying to.
however I also discovered that very few Continuationists actually possess the faith to lay hands on the sick and see them healed.
I say...
I think they have the faith for a simple healing. They have the faith for God to transform their dead sinful nature. They have the faith that God is going to raise their dead body. Surely they have faith for a healing.
Also you act like faith starts with us. It doesn't. Faith starts with God. It's not something we conjure up. Faith is God's gift to us.
Jesus is the author of it. Not us. Hebrews 12:2
God is the one who gives us faith. Romans 12:3
Faith only arises after we hear God's voice. Romans 10.
If anyone has the mustard seed faith to believe for anything, it's because God implanted that faith in them. It's not because they failed to conjure it up on their own.
Also any scriptures dealing with lack of faith are geared toward people who didn't even have a mustard seed sized faith. It wasn't geared toward people who clearly believe he can change our sinful nature and resurrect us from the dead.
People want to take people with the simple mustard seed faith and apply all the verses about lack of faith to them. That's just misapplication of scripture.
I know I ranted away from the post I was replying to.
1
You say...
Besides that, have you ever tried walking into a hospital room of someone you don't know? It's not allowed.
I say...
I'm sure if you walked in to a hospital waiting room and announced you had the power to cure people, they'd rush you right to their family members bed. So your reply seems to be a cop out. Give it a try!
You say..
Because most people have already made up their minds on this issue. 99.9% of people simply do not have the faith.
I say...
There you go again, casting blame on the sick people. First it's the people who aren't praying for the sick that lack faith. Now it's the people you'd be praying for who lack the faith.
First of all, if a person is trusting Jesus for salvation and resurrection, they have plenty of faith. Believing for a healing is window dressing.
Second of all...uhh I forgot.
Besides that, have you ever tried walking into a hospital room of someone you don't know? It's not allowed.
I say...
I'm sure if you walked in to a hospital waiting room and announced you had the power to cure people, they'd rush you right to their family members bed. So your reply seems to be a cop out. Give it a try!
You say..
Because most people have already made up their minds on this issue. 99.9% of people simply do not have the faith.
I say...
There you go again, casting blame on the sick people. First it's the people who aren't praying for the sick that lack faith. Now it's the people you'd be praying for who lack the faith.
First of all, if a person is trusting Jesus for salvation and resurrection, they have plenty of faith. Believing for a healing is window dressing.
Second of all...uhh I forgot.
C
Anyways, not here to argue with people who have already made up their minds. Your faith is between you and God. Not you and I. If you do not have the faith to believe in something, regardless of what that might be, then that's something that only you and Him can sort out. And if you choose not to believe then there's nothing that I or even God (in a way) can to about it.