Contradiction of WORDS

[SeaBass]

It's called the gospel of grace for a reason.

"The Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

It's NOT called the gospel of UNCONDITIONAL grace.

 

[SeaBass]

So you are saying that works save us, yet the Bible says they do not (Eph 2:8-9).

James 2 "JUSTIFIED BY WORKS". Rom 6 "OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS"

Eph 2:9 "not of works" refers to works of merit not obedient works that justifies/leads to being made righteous.

 

[Elin]

Every scripture you cited can apply to Jesus coming here because we are sinners, but for the purpose of showing us the way to God through repentance.

"Can apply" and "does apply" are not the same thing.

You confuse them.

I think my Jewish friend might be right.

Thou does betray thy religious persuasion.

 

[Elin]

Did I? Be careful in looking at scripture only one way.
he*was*wounded for our transgressions,*

God made Jesus guilty for our sin or Jesus came to teach us because we're sinners and killed?

The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
God punished Jesus for our sins or we are all sinners so God sent Jesus to show us we must have faith in God.

Don't just say no. Look at it and tell me why not

Is it possible that we have been deceived for a long long time?

Thou does betray thy religious persuasion.

 

[SeaBass]

Deflection by straw man. . .deal with the text of Lk 23:43.

So the thief proves anyone today can live and die while spending all the time of his life doing evil works, be blatantly disobedient to God and live unrighteously and STILL BE SAVED???

(The thief was repentant for his evil works.)

 

[Elin]

Yeah..well, I have something to tell you.

Eph 10 For we are the work of his hands, created in Christ for good works, which has been prepared beforehand for us to walk in them.

Eph 8-9 doesn't condemn good works; it merely serves to reinforce the importance of faith.

Faith is a gift from God. Use that faith. Good works is about putting faith to action.


God gave his creations unique personalities, temperaments, and dispositions. Faith, like all of these things, are wonderful gifts from God, but they must be used in order to benefit from them.


Dead faith, Elin. Dead faith. It exists and is recorded in Scripture.

What is dead faith? How does faith be alive?

You are absolutely correct.

But the topic is salvation, and by what means we are saved.

Are good works the cause of salvation, or the result of salvation.

The NT every where teaches they are the result or salvation, not its cause.

The topic is not the nature of faith.

 

[SeaBass]

God justifies the wicked (Ro 4:5), for there are none righteous (Ro 3:10) until they are justified.

You could use a good Bible study, although it's really belief that you need.

So one can live his whole life wicked and still be saved?

 

[notuptome]

It's NOT called the gospel of UNCONDITIONAL grace.

God gives unconditional grace because He loves unconditionally. God is not like man. To condition grace is to make it the result of merit.

Grace cannot be merited. Grace cannot be deserved. No man is ever worthy of grace and no man can ever repay Gods grace. Grace can only be accepted or rejected.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Yeah..well, I have something to tell you.

Eph 10 For we are the work of his hands, created in Christ for good works, which has been prepared beforehand for us to walk in them.

Eph 8-9 doesn't condemn good works; it merely serves to reinforce the importance of faith.

Faith is a gift from God. Use that faith. Good works is about putting faith to action.


God gave his creations unique personalities, temperaments, and dispositions. Faith, like all of these things, are wonderful gifts from God, but they must be used in order to benefit from them.


Dead faith, Elin. Dead faith. It exists and is recorded in Scripture.

What is dead faith? How does faith be alive?

Exactly, by Elin trying to eliminate all works in Eph 2:9 that would eliminate "before ordained" good works of v10 and Elin has a contradiction on her hands she will not address, at least has not yet addressed.

 

[Elin]

It's NOT called the gospel of UNCONDITIONAL grace.

Indeed, it is!

 

[SeaBass]

Agreed. . .a Christian does good works

You eliminated all works [which includes good works] with your misunderstanding of Eph 2:9.

So you have a contradiction on your hands.

 

[Elin]

James 2 "JUSTIFIED BY WORKS". Rom 6 "OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS"

Eph 2:9 "not of works" refers to works of merit not obedient works that justifies/leads to being made righteous.

Previously addressed. . .multiple times.

 

[TaylorTG]

You are absolutely correct.
But the topic is salvation, and by what means we are saved.
Are good works the cause of salvation, or the result of salvation.
The NT every where teaches they are the result or salvation, not its cause.
The topic is not the nature of faith.

Faith would be the result of salvation, and good works proceed from faith.

So one can live his whole life wicked and still be saved?

Stupid logic, eh?

I can eat as many desserts as I want and steal as many dollars as I wish from my brother's wallet!! My parents totally won't punish me!

 

[Elin]

So the thief proves anyone today can live and die while spending all the time of his life doing evil works, be blatantly disobedient to God and live unrighteously and STILL BE SAVED???

Well, that explains a lot about your Scriptural understanding.

(The thief was repentant for his evil works.)

Repentance is in the disposition, not a physical action of "work."

 

[Elin]

So one can live his whole life wicked and still be saved?

Previously addressed. . .ad nauseum.

 

[SeaBass]

Study the meaning of "forgive" in the NT and how it is accomplished.

It's an accounting term. . .as are credited/reckoned/imputed.

Bottom line: forgiveness is not free.

God forgives sins that are REPENTED of......that is why the Christian is to CONTINUE to walk in the light (repent/confess sins) so that Christ's blood CONTINUES to cleanse away all sins 1 Jn 1:7.

A Christians sins are not automatically forgiven while the Christian sits and does nothing.

 

[Elin]

Exactly, by
Elin trying to eliminate all works in Eph 2:9 that would eliminate "before ordained" good works of v10 and
Elin has a contradiction on her hands she will not address, at least has not yet addressed.

Which contradiction exists nowhere but in your contradictory and flawed reasoning.

 

[Elin]

You eliminated all works [which includes good works] with your misunderstanding of Eph 2:9.

So you have a contradiction on your hands.

I have no doubt you see it that way.

 

[Atwood]

Someone needs to tell that to Paul (Eph 2:8-9).

Rather, tell it to the Lord, as some seem to think they know more about how to be saved that the LORD does, who sent His prophets with His Word.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

What are there, 1000 verses that tell us that salvation only requires faith/belief on man' part, nothing else, NO WATER?

Yet the all-wet would make water an idol, a false savior.

 

[Atwood]

God forgives sins that are REPENTED of......that is why the Christian is to CONTINUE to walk in the light (repent/confess sins) so that Christ's blood CONTINUES to cleanse away all sins 1 Jn 1:7.

A Christians sins are not automatically forgiven while the Christian sits and does nothing.

Now nothing SB posted proves his claims. Christ already did it all when He died on the cross. The Lord has laid on Him the iniquities of us ALL.

Then SB inserts words after walk in the light, instead of proving what that means and that it has something to do with salvation -- word not quoted.

SB also seems to be ignorant of the chastening wood-shed forgiveness.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.


John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.


Romans
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

[no WATER mentioned]