Contradiction of WORDS

royalscot · Nov 8, 2014

70ad what temple of stone. who needs this temple.

(paul)
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just asPeter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),Galatians 2:

22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple Revelation 21

would that be with .work or faith or with law

are you trying to use all teachings, that came from past to follow through change. but dont understand what has changed

how can you follow the full law of moses without a temple of stone, after 70 ad

so act 15 is proven correct.

what law then did you repent of in your act 2 quote.

22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple Revelation 21

(paul)
7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just asPeter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised 8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),Galatians 2:

royalscot · Nov 8, 2014

newbirth said:

was pauls quote not from god.

how dose this answer anything of my post. jame 60 ad his book was wrote, gal around 48-49 ad the temple was no more after 70 ad

if you care to answer ,
we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...
so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.
compared to

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.your post
and yet again you miss the point where we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...

James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

compared to my post

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

leading to

origin of statement ,

who in speculation terms made the quote , statement first, with both describing what he did by different wording.

but meaning of both are much the same. when work was used instead of faith . faith used instead of work.

so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.

newbirth · Nov 8, 2014

royalscot said:

was pauls quote not from god.

how dose this answer anything of my post. jame 60 ad his book was wrote, gal around 48-49 ad the temple was no more after 70 ad

if you care to answer ,
we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...
so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.
compared to

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.your post
and yet again you miss the point where we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...

James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

compared to my post

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

leading to

origin of statement ,

who in speculation terms made the quote , statement first, with both describing what he did by different wording.

but meaning of both are much the same. when work was used instead of faith . faith used instead of work.

so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.

your response is very confusing if anything....the end of the matter is faith without works is dead ...so if you say it's work..it is work of faith.....and if you say it is faith, it is faith with works...

royalscot · Nov 8, 2014

newbirth said:

7x7 your answer has a binding old c . when did they give back the land . and answer the post you posted

Originally Posted by royalscot

was pauls quote not from god.

how dose this answer anything of my post. jame 60 ad his book was wrote, gal around 48-49 ad the temple was no more after 70 ad

if you care to answer ,
we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...
so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.
compared to

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or byhearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.your post
and yet again you miss the point where we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...

James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

compared to my post

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or byhearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

leading to

origin of statement ,

who in speculation terms made the quote , statement first, with both describing what he did by different wording.

but meaning of both are much the same. when work was used instead of faith . faith used instead of work.

so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.

royalscot · Nov 8, 2014

newbirth said:

he cant respond to his own comment , because

we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...
we is not i

but more than one. opinion.

abraham repented

before he followed just in case there would be trouble a head.

or abraham following and believed god spoke to him with faith and said come what may god spoke to me .

newbirth · Nov 8, 2014

royalscot said:

7x7 your answer has a binding old c . when did they give back the land . and answer the post you posted

Originally Posted by royalscot

was pauls quote not from god.

how dose this answer anything of my post. jame 60 ad his book was wrote, gal around 48-49 ad the temple was no more after 70 ad

if you care to answer ,
we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...
so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.
compared to

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or byhearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.your post
and yet again you miss the point where we believe the word of God over doctrine of Man...

James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

compared to my post

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or byhearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

leading to

origin of statement ,

who in speculation terms made the quote , statement first, with both describing what he did by different wording.

but meaning of both are much the same. when work was used instead of faith . faith used instead of work.

so following what god tells you, is this work or faith.

Following what God tells you to do is faith with works....obedience of faith......if you don't do what God says then you disobey him....faith without works..dead faith...

kennethcadwell · Nov 8, 2014

newbirth said:

In other words it could be worded like this;

Faith with good works = walking in the spirit

Faith alone or no good works = walking after the flesh

Atwood · Nov 8, 2014

newbirth said:

What should this thread be called, Contradiction of NewB?

NewB, when will you believe God's Word?

The order is
1) Sinner,
2) Grace from God & Man trusts Savior,
3) gets salvation; Recreation,
4) Good works result.

2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were

dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—

4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even

when we were dead through our trespasses,

made us alive together with Christ

(by grace

ye have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:

that in the ages to come he might show
the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace

ye have been saved

through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are

his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus

for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Open your eyes NewB:
Sinner without works > Faith > Salvation > Good Works

Atwood · Nov 8, 2014

Contradiction of LEGALISTS

kennethcadwell said:

Kenneth, open your eyes:

It is Absence of works > faith > walking in the Spirit > fruit of Spirit (good works).

Gal 2-3

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh
I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God,
who loved me, and gave himself up for me. I do not make void the grace of God: for if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nought. O foolish Galatians, who did bewitch you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was openly set forth crucified? This only would I learn from you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now perfected in the flesh?

newbirth · Nov 8, 2014

Re: Contradiction of LEGALISTS

Atwood said:

I guess if you read that scripture once more you might just see .....for if righteousness is through the law.....so you would understand it is works of the law he is writing about...
and I have to ask ...
what did you hear by faith?......
did you hear...

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

I guess you did not....

newbirth · Nov 8, 2014

Atwood said:

What should this thread be called, Contradiction of NewB?

NewB, when will you believe God's Word?

The order is
1) Sinner,
2) Grace from God & Man trusts Savior,
3) gets salvation; Recreation,
4) Good works result.

2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were

dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—

4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even

when we were dead through our trespasses,

made us alive together with Christ

(by grace

ye have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:

that in the ages to come he might show
the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace

ye have been saved

through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are

his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus

for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Open your eyes NewB:
Sinner without works> Faith> Salvation > Good Works

you are preaching faith without works .....the scripture says repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name...I don't see that in your line up...

kennethcadwell · Nov 8, 2014

Re: Contradiction of LEGALISTS

newbirth said:

I have tried to explain that to Atwood over and over again.
That it is about works of the law that is mentioned, and not spiritual works which are done out of love that work hand and hand with faith.

We would not have the well know scripture from James where he says faith without works is dead if faith alone saves.
Plus how many times does one have to be shown how even Jesus says the things that have faith in Him will do. He never says have faith and that is it. He says believe on Him and you will be saved, and then all through Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John He says what that belief consist of. Things a believer will do, and if these do not follow they are not of Him.

Atwood · Nov 8, 2014

Re: Contradiction of LEGALISTS

kennethcadwell said:

How is it Kenneth that you are so blind as not to understand that the unsaved (like you apparently) have no good works. There is none who does good; no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Thus no one can be saved by good works. You have to trust the Savior & get a new birth, be recreated BEFORE any good works happen.

Works are works! No works save.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, . . . , not of works.

There are no spiritual works done out of love until you get a new birth.

How is it that we have ton of scripture where faith alone saves, if faith alone does not save? Fear not, ONLY BELIEVE!
sinner > Faith > salvation with new birth > works.

That is the order.

Only by trusting Christ as SAvior coming to Christ as God be merciful to me a sinner, can you be saved.

Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:14-18
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that
whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 16:31a
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, . . . .
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
[NO WORKS, NO WATER]

Atwood · Nov 8, 2014

newbirth said:

Repentence = change of mind from not believing to believing (metanoia). It is not my lineup; I didn't write Ephesians; this is God's line up.

NewB, when will you believe God's Word?

The order is
1) Sinner,
2) Grace from God & Man trusts Savior,
3) gets salvation; Recreation,
4) Good works result.

2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were

dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—

4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even

when we were dead through our trespasses,

made us alive together with Christ

(by grace

ye have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus:

that in the ages to come he might show
the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace

ye have been saved

through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are

his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus

for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Open your eyes NewB:
Sinner without works> Faith> Salvation > Good Works

royalscot · Nov 9, 2014

newbirth said:

you take peters stand or wording .ie
,when paul is talking directly to him. in gal

define what are works. byhearing with faith--,works miracles , works of the law,

5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law,or byhearing with faith---

those of faith who are the sons of Abraham

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

royalscot · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Contradiction of LEGALISTS

kennethcadwell said:

holds to james, both peter and jame have met paul, so would be in cahoots to what paul said, or peter would have said something
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose

,works miracles , works of the law,

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.Matthew

talking to a jewish people. when did gentile get this law(acts 15) I do not nullify the grace of God, for etc

newbirth · Nov 9, 2014

royalscot said:

so the question still remain....are you a hearer of the word or a doer of the word that you hear in faith?...because faith without works is dead.....I get the impression that you saying hearers of the word must not work...in other words they must not be doers of the word....and I beg the question ...what are the words of faith that you hear?

newbirth · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Contradiction of LEGALISTS

royalscot said:

it is you who make divisions of Jew and Gentile ...but with God there is none under Christ....all must believe...the message of faith came to all mankind....but the Jews received it first because they were the custodians of the Law...was the eunuch a Jew? I don't think so... but he was reading the scriptures and by all indication he was baptised before Cornelius.

Galatians 3:21-23King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

royalscot · Nov 9, 2014

newbirth said:

how can you be doer of the word, when was the new covenant a binding covenant like the old. ie needing a death for forgiveness. a saviour is needed to be free from a binding old covenant.

Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 3: By Faith, or by Works of the Law?1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?4 Did you suffer so many things in vain---if indeed it was in vain?5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith---6 just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

peter was an eye witness to the facts.of the life of jesus,

paul is talking to peter.

just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

what did abraham believe, was it that god could raise the dead.
how did abrahams action prove this.

before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.

again doing what to believing ,
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

or came via believing that death is conquered.via the grace of god.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him

being hearer or doer, have no value if your saved first by god by believing he sent his son. etc

thats why, I do not nullify the grace of God

Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh

royalscot · Nov 9, 2014

Re: Contradiction of LEGALISTS

newbirth said:

paul did;

because he said, who gave the law of moses to a gentile.

8 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."acts 10

9 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.3

thats why your quotes do not conform to the time line of the history of the bible.

Contradiction of WORDS

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