Convince me there is non-alcoholic wine in the Bible/communion

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#61
Nov 28, 2023
2,035
334
83
#61
Magenta said:
Psalms 104: 14 to 15 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivate - bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladden's human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts.

Ecclesiastes 9:7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn by His right hand and by His mighty arm: "Never again will I give your grain as food for your enemies, and never again will foreigners drink the new wine for which you have toiled; but those who harvest it will eat it and praise the Lord, and those who gather the grapes will drink it in the courts of my sanctuary."

Jesus made over a hundred gallons of wine in his first recorded miracle in the Gospel of John. If it was such a sin to drink, I doubt very much that He would have done that.
Click to expand...
Again, there is a difference between Israelite wine which is diluted with water (mildly intoxicating) vs the unfermented wine (grape juice) Jesus made (which is not intoxicating). Even the dictionary tells you wine can be either fermented or unfermented. Folks have to understand that Jesus is life and not death. The juice is symbolic of His holiness and purity and not death and decay, which is what highly intoxicating beverages would symbolize. If you know about the process of today’s alcoholic wine, you would understand it is a process of death that produces alcohol.


….
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#62
Nov 28, 2023
2,035
334
83
#62
Magenta said:
Psalms 104: 14 to 15 He makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for people to cultivate - bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladden's human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts.

Ecclesiastes 9:7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.

Isaiah 62:8-9 The Lord has sworn by His right hand and by His mighty arm: "Never again will I give your grain as food for your enemies, and never again will foreigners drink the new wine for which you have toiled; but those who harvest it will eat it and praise the Lord, and those who gather the grapes will drink it in the courts of my sanctuary."

Jesus made over a hundred gallons of wine in his first recorded miracle in the Gospel of John. If it was such a sin to drink, I doubt very much that He would have done that.
Click to expand...
Also, consider that highly intoxicating beverages generally do not have nutritional labels on them because they do not offer any nutritional value. They are in effect a mild poison that your immune system has to fight against. Are you comparing our Lord to such deadly beverages? Alcohol is one of the top killers here in America.

…
 
Bible_Highlighter

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
#63
Nov 28, 2023
2,035
334
83
#63
Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. The blood symbolizes life and death. Jesus is life and death.

…
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Active member
#65
Nov 1, 2024
243
62
28
#65
Bible_Highlighter said:
The juice is symbolic of His holiness and purity and not death and decay
Click to expand...
Grape juice is actually associated with God's wrath, so in that sense you are correct. God's holiness destroys the wicked.

And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Revelation 14:18-20​
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#67
Jun 30, 2015
25,356
13,723
113
#67
And so, once again, this discussion devolves into two camps: those who correctly understand that Scripture does not demand complete abstinence, and those who believe that abstinence is so highly recommended that they can't comprehend that "new wine" is anything but fresh grape juice.

For the record, Deuteronomy 14:26 says "Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice." (NIV)

And for the KJV-only crowd:

"And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"

Now, since Scripture is clear that alcohol IS NOT forbidden, have a drink (whatever you prefer), stop arguing about it, and enjoy the weekend.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#68
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
13,519
113
#68
john832 said:
God condemns drunkenness but social drinking is perfectly acceptable. Wonder why Christ was accused of being a winebibber?
Click to expand...
a charge that certainly would not have been made if He lived as a complete teetotaler.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#69
Jul 31, 2013
37,717
13,519
113
#69
Bible_Highlighter said:
Scripture says the life of the flesh is in the blood. The blood symbolizes life and death. Jesus is life and death.

…
Click to expand...
He has power over life and death, but in Him is no death.

death is separation from Him, ignorance of Him: the scriptures define Him as The Life and define eternal life as knowing Him.
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#70
May 31, 2013
11,377
188
63
#70
posthuman said:
He has power over life and death, but in Him is no death.

death is separation from Him, ignorance of Him: the scriptures define Him as The Life and define eternal life as knowing Him.
Click to expand...
Death is death.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

the word for death here is...

G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.

The idea of the immortality of the soul began with the lie...

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.