Count the numbers

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,457
3,107
113
#1
Im wondering just how important numeracy is in the Bible or to God.

We have a God who knows the exact number of hairs on our head, and there is an entire book called Numbers so just wondering if numeracy should be as important as literacy in our lives.

And if so why are there not more sermons or studies on it....

I dont know about you but a lot of response to covid has been about numbers, since its a virus that spreads exponentially, and it also takes a number of days to incubate (mostly 14 days are given)

Do miracles also happen exponentially, for example, when Jesus multiplied 5 loaves and two fishes to feed 5000 people.
Does faith happen exponentially or is their a recurring pattern for example, a lot of things hapen after 40 days of fasting and prayer.

In the chaos and confusion of this world, can we seek order, safety and reassurance from God in numbers? If mathematics is a universal language, why dont we all speak it?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
16,659
1,490
113
#2
Im wondering just how important numeracy is in the Bible or to God.

We have a God who knows the exact number of hairs on our head, and there is an entire book called Numbers so just wondering if numeracy should be as important as literacy in our lives.

And if so why are there not more sermons or studies on it....

I dont know about you but a lot of response to covid has been about numbers, since its a virus that spreads exponentially, and it also takes a number of days to incubate (mostly 14 days are given)

Do miracles also happen exponentially, for example, when Jesus multiplied 5 loaves and two fishes to feed 5000 people.
Does faith happen exponentially or is their a recurring pattern for example, a lot of things hapen after 40 days of fasting and prayer.

In the chaos and confusion of this world, can we seek order, safety and reassurance from God in numbers? If mathematics is a universal language, why dont we all speak it?
In my studies of bible prophecy one thing I noticed was how often numbers are used in the bible I attempted to even learn to read the hebrew language though I couldn't I did learn bit by bit about the language itself each letter has a numerical value I also noticed how often numbers are used in scripture
There is biblical numerology and the false numerology religion the devil copies and corrupts all of God's works so it is no surprise that people say to stay away from it.

However numbers in scripture is a hidden language a code God is the original and ultimate mathematician notice even how numbers are used in Jesus's ministry he began it at 30 and it ended at 33 the number 40 is also used how often do we see for instance the number 40 in scripture and how is it always used? it is always used as a time of tribulation a time of wandering in the desert a time of suffering Jesus walked for forty days and forty nights the Jews were in the wilderness for 40 years

Even Jesus name if you calculate it according to the original hebrew language it equals 888 the number 8 in scripture
in the Bible represents a new beginning, meaning a new order or creation, and man's true 'born again' event when he is resurrected from the dead into eternal life.
Like the Old Testament Passover lamb, Jesus was selected as the Lamb to take away man's sins on the Hebrew day of Nisan 10 (April 1, 30 A.D. - John 12: 28 - 29). He was crucified on Nisan 14 (Wednesday, April 5 in 30 A.D.). His resurrection occurred, exactly as he stated, three days and three nights after he was buried, which was at the end of the weekly Sabbath day that fell on Nisan 17 (seventeen symbolizes victory).
Nisan 17 was also the eighth day, counting inclusively, from the time Christ was selected as man's sacrificial Lamb. All this bears record of Jesus' perfect sacrifice and His complete victory over death.
The fact his name has three of the number is also important as three not only represents the trinity but is also a number that means perfection and complete
 
Sep 19, 2020
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#3
How many billions of people live on the Earth? I imagine God is quite relieved to encounter the bald among us.
I think numbers are a large part of the bible teachings. I can recall certain numbers being repeated in different books. 3, 7, 40, 12.
Don't the Jews ascribe to a system of numerology? Not sure it is called that by the Jewish people.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
951
212
43
#5
creation is counted as a week. At the dawn of history began the numbering of time. The ages of the Patriarchs, their births and deaths, are used to count the weeks. If one counts the weeks from creation to the first drop of rain of the flood it equals 86,400 weeks. Noah's age and the months documented pertaining to the flood are needed for this. 86400 seconds = one 24 hour day. A mathematician I know 'discovered' it.;)

Also the 7 days 'go to their destruction' the eighth is one of the seven, This is the pattern revealed by the Woman at the well. 5 huysbands have passed one is here now but is not her husband....guess who husband number seven would be? She's been waiting for the Messiah! Jesus just comes out with it...The guy who is speaking to you is he" It's like He is talking to family. Anyway Jesus could only stay a short while...they wanted Him to stay..stay.... And My Lord was going to His destruction. So Jesus is Resurrected and becomes an eighth and is one of the seven. The pattern is cosmic and repeated in Revelation. The Seven kings ...5 have passed one is here now...etc.

God's numbers are cosmic.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,638
5,618
113
#6
Im wondering just how important numeracy is in the Bible or to God.
Numbers are of great importance to God, who is in fact the Divine Mathematician. This entire universe operates on the basis of numbers and mathematics, and we clearly see in Scripture that God has assigned specific significance to many numbers.

What this reflects is that God is a God of (1) precision, (2) order, (3) harmony, and (4) mathematics. Thus men have discovered the mathematics of algebra, geometry, trigonometry, calculus, probability theory, physics, chemistry, astronomy etc.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,638
5,618
113
#7
in my experience, it's because math is hard.
The only reason math is hard is because it is taught as a mental exercise rather than as a method of arriving at relationships between concrete objects. If children were taught math by using and manipulating rods, they would catch on very quickly. My seven year old grandson can do division by using an abacus. For example, he was able to divide 81 by 3 correctly. Kids are not even taught division and multiplication at that level.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
581
565
93
#9
10Jesus told them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.” 11So Simon Peter went aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many, the net was not torn.
John 21:10-11

I find it oddly specific that they would mention 153 fish in the above verse. For example, this may be a coincidence, but in Jewish gematria the word 'boat' is also assigned a numerical value of 153.

What is Jesus? A fisher of men. (Matthew 4:19)

What is Jesus compared to? The Ark (Matthew 24:37-39)
 

Corban

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2020
699
270
63
69
#10
Im wondering just how important numeracy is in the Bible or to God.

We have a God who knows the exact number of hairs on our head, and there is an entire book called Numbers so just wondering if numeracy should be as important as literacy in our lives.

And if so why are there not more sermons or studies on it....

I dont know about you but a lot of response to covid has been about numbers, since its a virus that spreads exponentially, and it also takes a number of days to incubate (mostly 14 days are given)

Do miracles also happen exponentially, for example, when Jesus multiplied 5 loaves and two fishes to feed 5000 people.
Does faith happen exponentially or is their a recurring pattern for example, a lot of things hapen after 40 days of fasting and prayer.

In the chaos and confusion of this world, can we seek order, safety and reassurance from God in numbers? If mathematics is a universal language, why dont we all speak it?
A very good work on the numbers of the Bible was done by a man called Ivan Panin.
 
Mar 29, 2019
83
56
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#11
You guys are right - numbers are very important in the scriptures. I have seen a study on it, but I think some of the examples are a bit circular. Nonetheless, understanding the significance does make the references pop out.
Some of the ones I remember:
7 - perfection. 7 days in the week, 7 trumpets, 70x7 of Daniel, 7 seals, the wedding on the 7th day, etc, etc.
6 - man's number, short of perfection. created on the 6th day, 666 = satan's man, 66 cubits for nebuchudnezer's statue, and a few others
8 - renewal, the first day of the new week, 8 in the ark, jesus = 888,
40 - test/trial, generation - 40 days and nights of the flood, 40yrs in the wilderness (until the generation dies out), 40days of Jesus in the wilderness, and a few others)
12 - government - 12 tribes/thrones, 144,000 (12x12,000) of revelation, very much associated with Israel.
13 - rebellion - (gen 14.4 'in the 13th year, they rebelled..'), ishmael was 13 when he was circumcised.
5 - grace - abraham's age at his life events are all multiples of 5, david's 5 pebbles,
3 - completeness - 3 days/nights of Jesus in the tomb, boy Jesus missing 3 days, Jonah in the 'fish', many other 3's come up
 

Corban

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2020
699
270
63
69
#12
10Jesus told them, “Bring some of the fish you have just caught.” 11So Simon Peter went aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many, the net was not torn.
John 21:10-11

I find it oddly specific that they would mention 153 fish in the above verse. For example, this may be a coincidence, but in Jewish gematria the word 'boat' is also assigned a numerical value of 153.

What is Jesus? A fisher of men. (Matthew 4:19)

What is Jesus compared to? The Ark (Matthew 24:37-39)
It might be significant but 153 thousand is recorded in 2nd Chronicles 2:17. It was the number of Gentiles who lived with Israel. In Luke 5 Peter casts his net and the net broke and fish escaped into the sea. In John 21 the net did not break, and the number of fish is the number of Gentiles. In Parable, the "sea" is the Nations. Could it be that Luke 5 shows the gospel, by the "fishers' of men", going to Israel, but they refuse and are scattered among the nations in AD 70? But John 20 records the same "fisher's of men" when they go to the Gentiles with the gospel - and the due amount are saved, and none are lost (Jn.18:9).
 

Corban

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2020
699
270
63
69
#13
You guys are right - numbers are very important in the scriptures. I have seen a study on it, but I think some of the examples are a bit circular. Nonetheless, understanding the significance does make the references pop out.
Some of the ones I remember:
7 - perfection. 7 days in the week, 7 trumpets, 70x7 of Daniel, 7 seals, the wedding on the 7th day, etc, etc.
6 - man's number, short of perfection. created on the 6th day, 666 = satan's man, 66 cubits for nebuchudnezer's statue, and a few others
8 - renewal, the first day of the new week, 8 in the ark, jesus = 888,
40 - test/trial, generation - 40 days and nights of the flood, 40yrs in the wilderness (until the generation dies out), 40days of Jesus in the wilderness, and a few others)
12 - government - 12 tribes/thrones, 144,000 (12x12,000) of revelation, very much associated with Israel.
13 - rebellion - (gen 14.4 'in the 13th year, they rebelled..'), ishmael was 13 when he was circumcised.
5 - grace - abraham's age at his life events are all multiples of 5, david's 5 pebbles,
3 - completeness - 3 days/nights of Jesus in the tomb, boy Jesus missing 3 days, Jonah in the 'fish', many other 3's come up
Excellent! Here are few more to add to this list.
38 - the number of death. Israel must circle in the wilderness for another 38 years till all over 20 are dead. It is also the number of years that Abraham lived after the death of Sarah.
1 - the Number of God
42 - the number of Trial. God judges Israel with no rain for 42 months during Elijah's ministry Israel fail the trial. Jesus ministers for 42 months and Israel fail. The Great Tribulation lasts 42 months and God must shorten it lest all men perish
8 - also the number of resurrection. Our Lord Jesus was raised "on the morrow after the Sabbath". It explains circumcision on the 8th day of a male child's life.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,457
3,107
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#14
How many billions of people live on the Earth? I imagine God is quite relieved to encounter the bald among us.
I think numbers are a large part of the bible teachings. I can recall certain numbers being repeated in different books. 3, 7, 40, 12.
Don't the Jews ascribe to a system of numerology? Not sure it is called that by the Jewish people.
I think its called gematria and every Hebrew character of the alphabet is assigned a number.
The number of a persons name is talked about in Revelation though ss something everyone is just supposed to know, and because they didnt have telephones in those days I assume its not that.
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,728
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#15
I cannot explain why they are impt, but numbers are to God. Reading thru Genesis 46 today, i was reminded of this thread. Here are some verses from the chapter:

19 The sons of Rachel Ya'akov's wife: Yosef and Binyamin.

20 To Yosef in the land of Egypt were born M'nasheh and Efrayim, whom Osnat the daughter of Poti-Fera priest of On bore to him.

21 The sons of Binyamin: Bela, Bekher, Ashbel, Gera, Na'aman, Echi, Rosh, Mupim, Hupim and Ard.

22 These were the children of Rachel who were born to Ya'akov - in sum, fourteen people.

23 The sons of Dan: Hushim.

24 The sons of Naftali: Yachtze'el, Guni, Yetzer and Shillem.

25 These were the sons of Bilhah, whom Lavan gave to Rachel his daughter; she bore them to Ya'akov - in sum, seven people.

26 All the people belonging to Ya'akov coming into Egypt, his direct descendants (not counting Ya'akov's sons' wives), totaled sixty-six.

27 The sons of Yosef, born to him in Egypt, were two in number. Thus all the people in Ya'akov's family who entered Egypt numbered seventy.


I just noticed vv. 19-22, with Joseph/Yosef's 2 sons and Benjamin/Binyamin's 10, where Rachel's children were 14 in all, which included their 12 children + both Yosef and Binyamin. While Bilhah's included her sons and grandsons too, in sum, 7.

All the people of Israel who entered Egypt was 70. God truly has the whole world in His hands, knowing every single person born or who dies where and when...
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,457
3,107
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#16
Wasn't there a census when Jesus was born...although it was a Roman census.

I wonder what the population of Judea was at the time.
 
Jul 2, 2011
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#17
I believe the census was ordered by Herod, was he Roman? I never thought much of it.

Now I will just go Google it.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
8,457
3,107
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#18
no it was by the Roman governor Quirinus, as stated by Luke.
But no figures have been given, I dont understand this census, it seems to me they counted it for taxpaying purposes.

wikipedia says thats conflicts with (Matthews) account of Jesus being born in Herods reign which was 9 years earlier, though wiki could be wrong as it doesnt give much evidence exactly how they conflict. A governor and a King are not the same thing.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,752
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#19
I find it it bit strange that Matthew, one of the Twelve, and Luke not so but a doctor of medicine differ in rendering the story of our Lord/ birth in different manners.

I suppose the version given by Matthew has stuck with me for some reason.