Creationism Vs Evolution

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Dec 14, 2009
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#41
For the most part, it is very hard to dispute the scientific theories. Until you look at the utter complexity of the world and the chance involved in one planet being exactly the right distance from the sun to have formed life. For it to be the right temperature, have the right combination of chemicals. For it to spontaneously come to life and create self-aware human beings who can think in so many different ways and do so many things. We are head and shoulders above any other form of life on this planet in terms of intelligence and thought and our knowledge of this world is second only to God's and the angel's.

I think that the reason people want to ignore all this is because it becomes easier to think 'look how special we are', and to credit ourselves for our own existence. When really, you know in the back of your mind somewhere, as soon as you sit down alone, that there is a force out there. That there is a life after death and that there is a heaven. And even as a child you know this, somehow. But along the way, choose to ignore it.

But one thing I would ask anyone who is wondering about the separate theories of religion and science to do, is to ask yourself how much of it can co exist? Look at how the inside of an atom behaves for instance, really research it.

For the most part it makes little sense even to scientists, How the inside of an atom works, how it has mass. How it can contain so much energy yet be so small. There are only theories, namely the 'God particle' or Higgs Boson theory. It really will make a Christian more willing to believe that science can co exist with religion because God created it all, and an atheist believe it is all just too complex to be a game of chance.

There is a bible passage that says something like (not exactly, because I can't remember the verse number or book), but it's something like 'All the evidence of God was before them. All the wonder of the world, but they refused to believe it'. Don't quote me because that is not the exact way it is worded, but that's how I viewed it. And it made me think of all the people who see the absolute wonder of the world. Who know all the science behind things and study all this, yet still can be so blind as to think it just happened by chance. How could something so complex and so perfectly structured, just happen?

So much of this world intertwines and works in such a perfect way that it is almost impossible for me to think that it just happened. Because then that begs the question; What are we even here for? Why have we been given so much, but know so little? What is our purpose? Why are we the only things on earth who can think? Who can question? Who can communicate and build and live? Experience joy, sadness, anger, frustration and all the things that come with being a human? And when you say to yourself 'God isn't real', the only thing you are left with is more questions than answers.

Then where do you go?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#42
It's like asking an impossible question. You will never find the meaning of life in an atom, or even in a book. You can never say 'this one sentence is why we are here'. You can never say 'look, we are logical beings and this is how the world works', and you can never say that one person is totally right and another is totally wrong. But one thing you can say is that life becomes a hell of a lot easier when you just accept that some things aren't meant to be known, and none of us has the capacity to know all. The world is full of argument and counterargument, but in the word's of the black eyed peas, where is the love?

Doesn't anybody else ever get fed up of the divide?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#43
The way I see it, everything outside the atom works for a scientist, and everything inside it just disproves the logic of it all. It's like, God let us get so far and so advanced in science, then showed us the inside of an atom, or a black hole, or the big bang, and slapped us in the face and said 'So, I'm not real am I not? Then tell me how THIS works?'

And the people who accept it and say 'You got me good', realise what's been staring them in the face and let go of all the disbelief.

And the people pulling their hair out trying to figure out these things are the ones who want to challenge God and say he isn't real.
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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#44
Why are scientists spending so much time trying to disprove creation? What is the actual purpose? Why isn't there life on other planets? Why only on Earth? No one can confirm there was ever life in other parts of the universe. Why is it about Earth that caused civilization to happen ONLY here if God doesn't exist?
Why do we even have moral law? If there is no God then we have no soul. We don't need laws. We don't need morals. We should live like our ancestors. Why are we so intelligent?

If matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed then where did the matter and energy come from in the first place? What exactly took place at the beginning of time if a supernatural force did not cause it?

It takes more faith to believe in nothing than to believe in something. Scientiests say we came from nothing, but find it impossible that people believe we came from a creator? Who is really being unrealistic here? At least Christians believe an actual force was the cause of it. Scientists are STILL trying to find something out of nothing.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#45
Elizabeth you just asked the mother of all questions that just says it all; 'If matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, then where did the matter and energy come from in the first place?'

That is an astonishing, eye opening question.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#46
There is so much matter we cannot even comprehend it, and the thing that I find very very very hard to believe is that it all used to be squashed into a space the size of nothing. It's very, very difficult to process.

I mean, as well as that, who lit the spark?
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
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#47
First law of thermodynamics!!!! booyahh!!!
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#48
God blew it up and left us with the instructions to put it back together again haha. :)
 

Elizabeth619

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#49
God blew it up and left us with the instructions to put it back together again haha. :)

I have a few more questions for evolutionists... :D

Since a creationists view is based upon alot of faith in a supernatural being and an athiest needs PROOF! I want proof of the transitional stage from when we were fishies to when we were fishies walking on land, to when we were fishies with arms to where our gills fell off and suddenly we could live out of water and so on..... I need to see all these transitional stages. Not drawings...actual FOSSILS.

Also, man, ape, whatever you want to call it lived with other animals just like today...why is it that some evolved and others did not? What slowed King Kongs evolution process?

If we all came from on basic life form why is it so many different life forms can live in the same habitat but be different.... I mean... HELLO!!!!!!! I was once a goldfish.... so was my great great great great great great........ grandma.....but her other offspring are now a camels..... ummmmm, that is what evolution tells us.

How is it that we came from a rather independent lifeform to mammals where we need our parents to survive... I mean reptiles, fish, and other non mammals are rather independent from birth... what type of process happened where the HUMAN INFANT is literally the most dependant creature on Earth? A baby cannot live without it's mother. It would die. I need to see that actual transtional period to where this took place.

After all of that(if any of it makes sense) the human brain may grow more intelligent, but the rest of us is obviously faulty according to evolution. We started out as survivors, but now the smarter we get the more helpless we are. We depend on technology more and more each day. Before you know it we won't even need ot use our brains. Computers will do the thinking for us. .... Next evolutionary stop... THE BLOB AGE!
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#51
Elizabeth your mocking talent is epic lol. But seriously, you have a point. I have a lot of respect for science, but it leaves many many unanswered questions. I suppose so does belief in God, but that is what faith is.

But I also have a question or two about science.

Newton's first law states that every action must have an equal and opposite reaction. So how does splitting a tiny atom with a few electrons create a massive burst of energy? Or how does nothing happen to all this matter, but it explodes into a universe more vast and energetic than any of us can comprehend?

If there are 3 known spacial dimensions, and one known temporal dimension, but 5 other dimensions that we know nothing about, then how do we know they even exist? And how do we know that time is not slowing down as the universe slows down? How do we know one of those other dimensions are not also temporal and blinding us in terms of our timings of life on earth?

And to be really, really deep, how do we know that when this explosion finally reaches it's end of expansion, that we won't begin to retract backwards?

Also, if we all came from the same place, and we all started off as a bunch of stuff even smaller than atoms, how do we join? How do we become electrons, and get energy, how do they join and become atoms? How does an atom of one element become all the elements of the periodic table? How do those elements then start joining back together to form compounds? And the kicker, how do random compounds made by chance, somehow make little living, active things? (bacteria). How do bacteria somehow join and mutate to become organisms that are then harmed by those same bacteria they came from? How do those organisms become totally different, totally separate organisms that have completely different traits and why? If our only purpose is survival, why didn't those bacteria (most likely cannibalistic, else how did they survive?) just stay as bacteria. And if survival's the game, why would they mutate into things that can be killed by the same bacteria they came from?

Why, why why? Science leaves more questions than answers.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#52
And probably the most unanswered question of all; time did not exist in the beginning. So things could be reversed. Things never actually happened. Things weren't even things because there was nothing. Nothing, no past, no present, no future. Just blank. Time is what makes us. It's what makes everything because without time, actions would not be actions, they would be possibilities. But if that is the case, surely all our laws which revolve on action and reaction (which is only a law because time has that effect on us) did not exist either. So why do they exist then? Why weren't we in existence with the ability to change our pasts? We remember our past, but not our future. We can change our future, but not our pasts. But this was not the case in the beginning, so science says. But if there was no time, no direction, and no energy, then what unseen force can cause there to be so? Answer that, science.
 
Nov 10, 2011
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#53
Alot of scientist would argue that just because an answer is not currently known, assigning a mystical invisible man in the sky is a silly fantasy.

I will give you a good example.


People used to believe that God made all things using 4 elements. And if something could burn, that meant God used fire to create it. Since fire was inside of it. Science could not explain why things were flammable, so God was used as an explanation.

Same thing today, we don't know what started life, or caused the big bang...so it must have been God.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#54
Well, I don't know where you got your information but I'm pretty sure Judaism and Christianity never imposed the belief that all things were made from 4 elements. Perhaps another religion, but not those two. I mean, scientists also used to believe they could turn lead into gold, so, it works both ways.

But my point is that if you cannot expain the big bang using the very methods you used to come to the conclusion that there was a big bang in the first place, what else is there?

Both christianity and Science tell us something was made from nothing. Christianity just said it first.
 
Nov 10, 2011
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#55
Well, I don't know where you got your information but I'm pretty sure Judaism and Christianity never imposed the belief that all things were made from 4 elements. Perhaps another religion, but not those two. I mean, scientists also used to believe they could turn lead into gold, so, it works both ways.

But my point is that if you cannot expain the big bang using the very methods you used to come to the conclusion that there was a big bang in the first place, what else is there?

Both christianity and Science tell us something was made from nothing. Christianity just said it first.

Lead to gold was alchemy, the belief that there were magical forces that could be used to change matter. Alchemy isn't really science. Although it did later lead to the birth of Chemistry.

And I never said it was Judaism and Christianity proposed the 4 elements. But Christian people sure did, even up to about 1,200AD that was argued.

And you aren't really changing you argument there. 'scientist can't explain it so it must be God' was exactly what I said people do today. Very much how people in the past used to about things that science can explain today.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#56
You're right. My argument remains. :)

I believe what I believe :)
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
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#57
Lead to gold was alchemy, the belief that there were magical forces that could be used to change matter. Alchemy isn't really science. Although it did later lead to the birth of Chemistry.

And I never said it was Judaism and Christianity proposed the 4 elements. But Christian people sure did, even up to about 1,200AD that was argued.

And you aren't really changing you argument there. 'scientist can't explain it so it must be God' was exactly what I said people do today. Very much how people in the past used to about things that science can explain today.

What is the most outrageous theory?
God, or that I used to be a Sea Turtle?
 
Dec 14, 2009
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#58
Or a duck billed platypus lol
 

TheKringledOne

Senior Member
Dec 25, 2009
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#60
In Isaiah 11:12 The word translated “corners,” is the Hebrew word, KANAPH which is actually translated in many ways, but usually means extremity.
Ah, a misunderstanding by me. I did not know that the word kanp̄ōwṯ (כַּנְפ֥וֹת) was the equivalent to kanaph (כָּנָף). Thanks for pointing this out to me because I probably would have never figured out that this was actually the case.

I looked over the over used of this same word throughout the bible and kanp̄ōwṯ , with one exception, is accompanied with the word arba`(אַרְבַּ֥ע) which means four. This confuses me a bit. What are the four extremities of the earth that are being referred to in this passage? This may not be a fair question. After all, ancient hebrew is a bit... playful with their use of phrases and words and do not always imply literal things.

Man was the last thing to be created in the Bible. We are the most advanced form of life. Science also does not dispute that. So who knows??
How does one even declare that something is the most advanced by a biological rubric?

Or a duck billed platypus lol
Are you trying to claim that duck-billed platypuses are troublesome to explain with the theory of evolution?
 
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