Creationism Vs Evolution

Tombo · Mar 2, 2012

I ask again, where are the intermediate life forms that show the progress of one species into another??? If this process supposedly happened over billions of years, we should have an abundance of such evidence everywhere. Instead we have a few old fossils that some scientists put together and say see, here is cro-mag.non man, etc. It's a joke.
I encourage you to check out the site I already mentioned and read what Christian scientists views are on the theory of evolution. The institute for creation research.
God bless!!!!

Tom

RogerBas · Mar 2, 2012

Tombo said:

List of transitional fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But let's leave that aside. Let's imagine that not a single transitional fossil has been found on earth, ever. Evolution still makes more sense than creation. Part of the beauty of knowledge and science as a whole is admitting that you do not necessarily know everything there is to know about something. Having missing parts in the equation does not make it right to throw the entire model aside and claim that it's false.
I would rather trust the word of thousands of renowned scientists all around the world that have done extensive research in the matter and brought conclusive evidence to the table than trust a book written by largely ignorant people thousands of years ago.

Tombo · Mar 2, 2012

RogerBas said:

Hi Roger,
This is a Christian chat forum, so you must understand that we will come to everything in light of the word of God. If you don't believe the Bible and think it's false, why come here to argue your point?
I, for one, could never swallow that everything came into being by chance, with no guiding hand behind it. The universe is so precise and ordered that it is impossible. And the thought that at one time there was nothing and then that nothing decided to make itself into something is illogical. It is a fundamental error against logic. Out of nothing nothing could possibly come. But when we listen to the Bible's declaration that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, it makes sense. I wasn't there to see it made and I don't claim to know it all, but I see the evidence all around!!!!
Just the fact that we have the intelligence to even ask such questions is remakable. If we came about by chance, how did we develope the trait of thinking and pondering, not only ourselves, but the world around us? And why do humans have eyes? And why are there so many beautiful things in the world for those eyes to see? How could natural selection make beautiful things, including humans, and then decide that we needed eyes in order to see it all??? Do you really think blind chance could really be the answer to all of this? In fact, chance has no meaning. In and of itself it is nothing, chance can't create. Chance may be used in a loose sense when describing mathematical possibilites, but in the end it really means nothing. Chance is just a word to describe what we can't understand.
Again, I would encourage you to go to the website: The institute for creation research and at least get a Christian scientist's perspective on evolution. And more importantly, my friend, read the Bible. Read it prayerfully, asking God to show you the truth of His word, His salvation and the world to come. Start in the book of John in the New Testament. Because when all is said and done, all of the arguing in the world won't bring us to truth without God helping us. And an understanding of science won't bring us one step closer to God if He doesn't open our eyes.
I can truly say that the Lord Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and I am the foremost of all. But He did save me by His grace. There was nothing good in me to commend me to God. Not only does the Bible teach that, but I know it in my own heart.
I don't like arguing for the sake of arguing, but that you might know the truth of God and be saved for the world to come. I am nothing. I admit I have a peanut brain compared to all of the scientists that you speak of. I use the little knowledge that God has given me to help others to see Him. In the end, arguing without care of the other person is useless and wrong.
God bless you, my friend.

Tom

RogerBas · Mar 2, 2012

Tombo said:

Hi Roger,
This is a Christian chat forum, so you must understand that we will come to everything in light of the word of God. If you don't believe the Bible and think it's false, why come here to argue your point?
I, for one, could never swallow that everything came into being by chance, with no guiding hand behind it. The universe is so precise and ordered that it is impossible. And the thought that at one time there was nothing and then that nothing decided to make itself into something is illogical. It is a fundamental error against logic. Out of nothing nothing could possibly come. But when we listen to the Bible's declaration that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, it makes sense. I wasn't there to see it made and I don't claim to know it all, but I see the evidence all around!!!!
Just the fact that we have the intelligence to even ask such questions is remakable. If we came about by chance, how did we develope the trait of thinking and pondering, not only ourselves, but the world around us? And why do humans have eyes? And why are there so many beautiful things in the world for those eyes to see? How could natural selection make beautiful things, including humans, and then decide that we needed eyes in order to see it all??? Do you really think blind chance could really be the answer to all of this? In fact, chance has no meaning. In and of itself it is nothing, chance can't create. Chance may be used in a loose sense when describing mathematical possibilites, but in the end it really means nothing. Chance is just a word to describe what we can't understand.
Again, I would encourage you to go to the website: The institute for creation research and at least get a Christian scientist's perspective on evolution. And more importantly, my friend, read the Bible. Read it prayerfully, asking God to show you the truth of His word, His salvation and the world to come. Start in the book of John in the New Testament. Because when all is said and done, all of the arguing in the world won't bring us to truth without God helping us. And an understanding of science won't bring us one step closer to God if He doesn't open our eyes.
I can truly say that the Lord Jesus came into the world to save sinners, and I am the foremost of all. But He did save me by His grace. There was nothing good in me to commend me to God. Not only does the Bible teach that, but I know it in my own heart.
I don't like arguing for the sake of arguing, but that you might know the truth of God and be saved for the world to come. I am nothing. I admit I have a peanut brain compared to all of the scientists that you speak of. I use the little knowledge that God has given me to help others to see Him. In the end, arguing without care of the other person is useless and wrong.
God bless you, my friend.

Tom

I apologize Tom, I may have reached the wrong place. When I saw the Registration option of "Not a Christian", I thought that healthy debate between believers and non-believers was encouraged, or at least, accepted. If this is not the case, then I will leave. If not, please do tell me, that way I can reply to your post and proceed with the "debate" at hand.

Tombo · Mar 2, 2012

By all means you are welcomed to debate this issue here!!!! I just thought by your quote: " I would rather trust the word of thousands of renowned scientists all around the world that have done extensive research in the matter and brought conclusive evidence to the table than trust a book written by largely ignorant people thousands of years ago", that you weren't interested in a Christian view on the subject.
If I came off arrogant or unwelcoming, I apologize.
God bless.

Tom

Saul_Durian · Mar 2, 2012

RogerBas said:

Thank you for covering that for me

RogerBas said:

Well, there are some mods that will ban you. especially if you question the divinity of Jesus. But I honestly haven't seen much of that. As long as you are respectful and don't openly spew hate toward the Bible or Jesus.

I personally do not believe in the Bible, I have been pretty clear about it. I don't think the people who wrote it we ignorant. I think they were very intelligent, which is why the Bible has done so well. And they were careful to avoid a great deal of science related topics that might later be proven to be inaccurate.

And I have put forth that view more than once, and I am still around.

krisbrian · Mar 2, 2012

What came first....the chicken are the egg? The chicken because an egg wont hatch without a hen to lay on it.

Where did the chicken come from? God

What came first....the human baby or the human adult? The adult because a human baby cannot survive without an adult to take care of it and the human adults were named Adam and Eve

Where did Adam and Eve come from? God

It makes sense to me so I will go with it

Like the old saying goes....The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 2, 2012

RogerBas said:

In order for transitional fossils to be accurate scientists would have to find more than just a few life processes and mutations. The fact is they have not. They are also basing these findings on evidence that is washed away due to erosion.

As a matter of fact scientists have NOT found a direct connection between 2 major groups of animals. There are too many gaps in these fossils. Not enough evidence.

Also keep in mind that fossils happen rather rapidly. It doesn't take billions of years for fossils to form. It takes more like 50 years or less. Should I even get into the false data of cardon dating and the evidence that it is false?

Elizabeth619 · Mar 2, 2012

Here are a few interesting finds in the bible that science wants to take credit for, but they can't.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere

Job 30:5,6
They were driven out from among men,
They shouted at them as at a thief.
They had to live in the clefts of the valleys,
In caves of the earth and the rocks. aka CAVEMEN
Note that these were not ape-men, but descendants of those who scattered from Babel. They were driven from the community by those tribes who competed successfully for the more desirable regions of the earth. Then for some reason they deteriorated mentally, physically, and spiritually.[1] (Go into a bad part of your town and you will see this concept in action today.)

Leviticus 17:11
‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’
The blood carries water and nourishment to every cell, maintains the body’s temperature, and removes the waste material of the body’s cells. The blood also carries oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. In 1616, William Harvey discovered that blood circulation is the key factor in physical life—confirming what the Bible revealed 3,000 years earlier

eternally-gratefull · Mar 2, 2012

The more science learns. The more evolution is destroyed. And the more we see how man wants to do away with God.

Take the dna structure. When a fetus is being created, A dna sequence tells the creation process how when and what type of cell is to be created. Where the heart is, Where the eyes are etc etc.

To put it in perspective, it is like a computer program, Which initiates a set cycle of events when it is called for. The dna sequence, or program, is much more complicated than the source code for microsoft windows operating system. which took many people, and alot of testing, and it is still not perfect. Yet evolution states something more complicated wrote itself and somehow perfected itself to the forms we have today., WHAT??

God said he created man (adam and Eve) what does this mean?

Adam and eve looked just like us, with only one exception. they were perfect when created. So compaired to us, they were the two most perfect humans in looks, health and anything we can think of who ever walked the earth.

We also know that plant and animal life had to be created simultaneously to keep the atmosphere the ability to sustain life. If plant life was created first. they would have used up all the o2, and died. Without animal life to refill the atmosphere with O2. And vice versa if animal came first.

God said he would make the knowledge of the world increase in the end days, he also said he would make man's knowledge and show its foolishness, as man tries to use this knowledge to deny God. I think we see that happening today!

Elizabeth619 · Mar 3, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

The more science learns. The more evolution is destroyed. And the more we see how man wants to do away with God.

Take the dna structure. When a fetus is being created, A dna sequence tells the creation process how when and what type of cell is to be created. Where the heart is, Where the eyes are etc etc.

To put it in perspective, it is like a computer program, Which initiates a set cycle of events when it is called for. The dna sequence, or program, is much more complicated than the source code for microsoft windows operating system. which took many people, and alot of testing, and it is still not perfect. Yet evolution states something more complicated wrote itself and somehow perfected itself to the forms we have today., WHAT??

God said he created man (adam and Eve) what does this mean?

Adam and eve looked just like us, with only one exception. they were perfect when created. So compaired to us, they were the two most perfect humans in looks, health and anything we can think of who ever walked the earth.

We also know that plant and animal life had to be created simultaneously to keep the atmosphere the ability to sustain life. If plant life was created first. they would have used up all the o2, and died. Without animal life to refill the atmosphere with O2. And vice versa if animal came first.

God said he would make the knowledge of the world increase in the end days, he also said he would make man's knowledge and show its foolishness, as man tries to use this knowledge to deny God. I think we see that happening today!

I honestly believe the closer man gets to trying to prove evolution the closer they actually get to proving the existence of God.

Like I made in the above post.... cavemen, the importance of blood and so on... It was in the bible first before all these early day scientists too credit for it.
Isn't that plagarism?

TheKringledOne · Mar 5, 2012

Tombo said:

Actually the majority of secular scientists, at least in the United States of America, are not atheists. Also, atheists do not automatically accept the theory of evolution. There are atheists that don't believe that evolution occurs.

Elizabeth619 said:

What do you consider major gaps?

Elizabeth619 said:

The book of Isaiah was originally written in 3 parts. Chapter 40 comes from the second part was written in 6th-century BCE. Greek writings from the 6th-century also mention a spherical earth.

I do not believe this passage from Isaiah is even saying the earth is a sphere.The Hebrew word being used is ח֣וּג which does not necessarily mean its spherical but just that it was circular. If it was trying to say the world was spherical the words כַּדּ֕וּר or עָגֹל would have been used since they were used for explaining spherical objects. The former of which is actually used in Isaiah 22:18, which makes a different term being used in Isaiah 40:22 to be very strange if its trying to describe the earth as a sphere. In Isaiah 11:12, it states that the earth has corners. The book of Isaiah is a bit confused when it comes to the shape of the earth.

I could argue against your blood statement as well, but it depends on how you justify the dating of the book of Leviticus. Either way, many cultures around the world believed in the importance of blood to human life and is seen in many religious and non-religious texts. The bible can't take claim to be ahead of the times on this issue either.
---
I don't believe creationism, or intelligent design, should be anywhere near science classes but I do believe that stories of creation should be taught to people. After all, I think that the bible should be taught in public schools.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 5, 2012

TheKringledOne said:

In Isaiah 11:12 The word translated “corners,” is the Hebrew word, KANAPH which is actually translated in many ways, but usually means extremity.

If God meant corner then other words would have been more appropriate....
1. Pinoh is used in reference to the cornerstone.
2. Paioh means “a geometric corner”
3. Ziovyoh means “right angle” or “corner”
4. Krnouth refers to a projecting corner.
5. Paamouth - If the Lord wanted to convey the idea of a square, four-cornered earth, the Hebrew word paamouth could have been used. Paamouth means square

loveme1 · Mar 5, 2012

No it does not hold up, it is held up!!! by those that do not want us to know the truth, and that is Almighty Yahweh created us..............

Those people are intelligent by mans standard! They make things up as they go along, and convince others that they are right.

Man would never of needed medicine etc, we have been punished with plagues and disease and pestilence.

Saul_Durian · Mar 5, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

There is alot of evidence to support that the Bible claims the earth to be circular. That isn't the same as spherical.

The Douay version says "globe of the earth", but there are a lot of questionable translations in the Douay bible. Everywhere else it is described as circular.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 5, 2012

loveme1 said:

Could you use scripture? I mean, it does help in a debate when you are discussing creation.

Elizabeth619 · Mar 5, 2012

Saul_Durian said:

If I question something I go directing to the Hebrew or Greek translation and try to figger it out for myself.

I will also say that the sphere of the earth mentioned in Isaiah is the Hebrew term for compass, which is referring to the 4 points(corners) of the earth. North, East, South, West.

Mediate · Mar 5, 2012

I think it's very difficult to disprove either theory, so both may have some truth to them. For instance, God says that he 'made light from darkness', made something from nothing. The scientific theories also say that something was created from nothing. Nowhere do scientists explain this miraculous inception with full-proof scientific fact. But in an unusual and somewhat ironic turn of events, religion (namely Christianity and Judaism) back this theory up by saying that God made something from nothing. The two somewhat co-incide.

Another point I'd like to make is that the bible states that the world was made in 6 days. Now, on the first day, how could there be a 'day' as we know it? (The time it takes for earth to rotate on it's axis), when only darkness and light were created and there was no earth??

This always baffled me.

But I heard somewhere that the word 'day' in Old Hebrew actually translated as 'period of time'. Therefore, what's to say that those periods of time weren't billions of years??

Just a thought.

But science is pretty adamant that the universe began as nothing and became something. It's backed up by basic laws of physics (The world does have indisputable truths, physical forces and ways of reacting which can always be calculated), and the basis for the 'Big Bang Theory' is that the universe is expanding rapidly at the same rate in every direction. So at one time it had to be a singular point which burst out in to every direction and became three dimensional matter as we know it. Time is the 4th dimension (though not spacial, it's temporal).

The point I'm making is that this all seems a little too complex and baffling to have just 'happened', as scientists like to say.

They are right that the universe came from nothing and became something, and about the expansion of it, but where science fails is when it says that this just 'happened', Clearly God did it. Clearly.

Man was the last thing to be created in the Bible. We are the most advanced form of life. Science also does not dispute that. So who knows??

Saul_Durian · Mar 5, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

Right, which doesn't indicate a sphere, but a flat circle.

loveme1 · Mar 5, 2012

Elizabeth619 said:

Are you saying that man is finding Almighty Yahweh God blueprints?

Creationism Vs Evolution

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