Crossing the Red Sea
- Thread starter oldhermit
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Cohesion a natural law , that which He also controls, but not subject to it, and the Supernatural 'horizontal arrow -like ' shaft of air. Him using Both to get it done as He decreed... this would make sense in the fact that He didnt use an embankment or something like that to create the walls of water, but walls were on both sides.. so that had to have been someplace 'lacking' an embankment ... Only God could of done that.. Ohh I know He did, He can do anything..
for all things are Possible to him /her that believes...
for all things are Possible to him /her that believes...
Originally Posted by valiant
But it appears to me that everyone is missing the point that the channel must have been at least a mile wide for Israel to get over within the time that the Egyptian chariots arrived.#
respectfully, may i suggest it is you who is missing the point?
this isn't about the laws of physics as we 'know' them.
this is about God doing what He does for His own, and for His Name's sake.
this isn't about the laws of physics as we 'know' them.
this is about God doing what He does for His own, and for His Name's sake.
I said nothing of the kind. You are inventing things in your own mind. You have the problem that many have on here. You read what you think people said, instead of what they actually said.
If I have said that it should not be difficult for you to prove it from my posts. If you cannot then an apology is in place.
If I have said that it should not be difficult for you to prove it from my posts. If you cannot then an apology is in place.
A
since my knowledge of physics begins and ends at 'fall down; go boom'...
is it too dumb to suggest God created the physics that govern the universe,
and He can do as He wishes with it? including contravene the 'laws' of physics?
sun standing still, dead people raised...
our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.
is it too dumb to suggest God created the physics that govern the universe,
and He can do as He wishes with it? including contravene the 'laws' of physics?
sun standing still, dead people raised...
our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.
But I heard/read (can rarely remember which anymore) that the difference been physics and miracle is Physics, if it is the way God set up the order of the universe. Miracle is when he breaks from that order.
as a non observer of the Miracles of God, as those demonstrated by Moses in the presence of Pharaoh, understand that those who followed Pharaoh, were they 'marvelled' at the walls of water around them? would they be alittle frightened? or taken back with amazement? one has to ponder the human feelings of soldier who never saw the Miracles God did in front of Moses.. all of sudden thrust INTO THE MIDDLE OF ONE.. from this , you can purdy much discern that Pharaoh was so hardened and angry at that time he was so 'focused ' on destruction that nothing was going to get in his way... who does this REMIND you of?
When I ponder on that tube of horizontal winds, this is what comes to Mind... those tubes of wind that create Tornado vortex's... God allows these to form within the Natural law of Physics and Science, HE IS ABLE to do it supernaturally also.. how wide it is? the speed of the winds on the outside to hold back the walls? not sure.. He knows.. Nahum speaks of God Having HIS WAY in the Windy Storm and Tempest... would this equate to the East wind used to part the Waters Supernaturally? mmm something to ponder..
A
3 million+/- people, plus all their herds and everything they took. Since they took what they could (including what was needed to turn gold into menorahs, so we're talking tools, tents, grandma and grandpa, the sick, a stove or 50, etc.) I have to assume they had carts. They made it through the Red Sea in a day. (I think in just one night, but I'm not sure.) Do you think that's possible in mud? Picture the entire city of Chicago traveling through Lake Superior over night carrying what they can.
As for how high was the wall? Let's just say a bunch of Egyptian warriors, their horses, chariots, etc. got wiped out. They're Egyptians -- known for their skill in water even more than land. If it weren't that deep, they could have swum to land. They washed up. (Also explaining how slaves who probably weren't given weapons when they left were armed for that first battle in the wilderness.)
I have no idea how deep it was in that wide swath they traveled through. I can assume it was deep enough that men and horses didn't reach the top when it came down on them, and, by physics/nature/God's pattern, living beings tend to try to swim up to the surface, ASAP, when drowning, and even if they don't make it, bodies float at first. Not 3, 6, 10, 25 feet. Probably not 30-50. They were warriors, so if anyone had the strength to get there, they would have, at least the ones who knew what to do with that one last breathe they got before the walls came crashing down on them and had particular skills to swim fast.
I am logical. I worked on that. If there is another explanation but "miracle," I would accept that. I haven't heard or read anything that would get me to that point. I'm not sure that wide swath was 1000 feet right there, but we're not talking swamps either.
As for how high was the wall? Let's just say a bunch of Egyptian warriors, their horses, chariots, etc. got wiped out. They're Egyptians -- known for their skill in water even more than land. If it weren't that deep, they could have swum to land. They washed up. (Also explaining how slaves who probably weren't given weapons when they left were armed for that first battle in the wilderness.)
I have no idea how deep it was in that wide swath they traveled through. I can assume it was deep enough that men and horses didn't reach the top when it came down on them, and, by physics/nature/God's pattern, living beings tend to try to swim up to the surface, ASAP, when drowning, and even if they don't make it, bodies float at first. Not 3, 6, 10, 25 feet. Probably not 30-50. They were warriors, so if anyone had the strength to get there, they would have, at least the ones who knew what to do with that one last breathe they got before the walls came crashing down on them and had particular skills to swim fast.
I am logical. I worked on that. If there is another explanation but "miracle," I would accept that. I haven't heard or read anything that would get me to that point. I'm not sure that wide swath was 1000 feet right there, but we're not talking swamps either.
I don't think they had carts. Yes I do think they could make it through the mud. But you are demonstrating how wide the channel would be. After all the Egyptian chariots sank in the mud.
Precisely. What a wide channel that would require.
No doubt you can prove to me that they were good in water, clothed in full armour, carrying heavy iron weapons? Did I ever say it wasn't deep? It depends what you mean by deep.
True
I would doubt very much whether they left without weapons of some kind. They knew they had a tough journey ahead. Those who were washed up would hardly have armed the whole of Israel.
True, maybe ten feet. They were bogged down in heavy iron armour. Do you really think that the whole of the Reed Sea released on them would not be enough?
Have you ever tried to swim in iron armour?
, and even if they don't make it, bodies float at first.
Not if they are in heavy armour.
See above. If the gap was a mile wide the water hardly came 'crashing down on them all' from the wall. But it was not the wall that crashed down on them it was the Reed Sea which had been held back.
LOL I have never denied that it was a miracle. The debate is on how the miracle was worked by God.
It only gradually became a swamp in readiness to catch the Egyptians.
A
I call that the Darwinism of Science. In Origin of Species, Darwin's go-to phrase was "Let us assume." Currently, I'm working on a middle grade novel about stuffed animals living and liking to eat. Obviously, I appreciate a good "Let us assume," but find it humorous when it's supposed to be a scientific theory. lol
I don't get cable, so I have no idea what the History Channel preaches, but I remember watching a National Geographic "documentary" on PBS that supposedly explained some of the Biblical theories. Two of them came from this part of the Bible.
The first one was about the Red Sea. They taught me that there is a part of the Red Sea -- large swath, one end -- that, given just the right winds really does push all the water back to ground only. There's a shelf at the end of this section where all the water dumps into, until the wind stops. They theorized (aka "Let us assume") the wind came at just the right time, and then stopped just at the right time. This seemed reasonable to me at the time... and then I thought about it.
Even if the wind pushed the sea off, the bottom is still saturated. You can't get that many people and cattle across that muddy a bottom that quickly. And, if by chance (for their theory only gives chance as an answer, never God), they did make it, the very act of them making it, would have sopped up some of that moisture and hardened the ground to make it easier on the Egyptians. (Something like one of those big rollers they use to flatten the surface of a newly paved road.) The Egyptians should have caught up with them.
Add to this, their next "logical explanation" of miracles was the manna. There is a plant that lets loose something like dandelion seeds but much bigger chunks in massive amounts in that wilderness. It's edible. It can be used as flour without even needing to grind it. And it happens every once in a while in humongous amounts for a few months. (It happens every year, but some years it's more bountiful.) It could have been the manna. I can accept that, but it's still a miracle, because it didn't work like it's described in the Bible. It showed up every morning in the same amounts five days a week, doubled the amounts on the sixth day, and nothing on the seventh, like clock work. Unlike the seed pods described in that program, it also dissolved when the sun came out and the dew dried up. And the manna fed all the people, so that's a LOT of people and not that many plants to feed them that much. Plus, it happened like that nonstop for 40 years, and those seed pods described on that show happen for only three months out of the year.
It may well have been those seed pods, but there is no way other than to say God changed their physics to cause a miracle.
I really do appreciate a good "Let us assume," but once the armor of that assumption is broken, it's time to throw it away... or, at the very least, it's time to call it fiction.
(Willie, I'm agreeing with you, and adding to what you said, so this isn't an argument. Sometimes I come off sounding like I'm arguing, so wanted to clear that up, if it happened again. lol)
I don't get cable, so I have no idea what the History Channel preaches, but I remember watching a National Geographic "documentary" on PBS that supposedly explained some of the Biblical theories. Two of them came from this part of the Bible.
The first one was about the Red Sea. They taught me that there is a part of the Red Sea -- large swath, one end -- that, given just the right winds really does push all the water back to ground only. There's a shelf at the end of this section where all the water dumps into, until the wind stops. They theorized (aka "Let us assume") the wind came at just the right time, and then stopped just at the right time. This seemed reasonable to me at the time... and then I thought about it.
Even if the wind pushed the sea off, the bottom is still saturated. You can't get that many people and cattle across that muddy a bottom that quickly. And, if by chance (for their theory only gives chance as an answer, never God), they did make it, the very act of them making it, would have sopped up some of that moisture and hardened the ground to make it easier on the Egyptians. (Something like one of those big rollers they use to flatten the surface of a newly paved road.) The Egyptians should have caught up with them.
Add to this, their next "logical explanation" of miracles was the manna. There is a plant that lets loose something like dandelion seeds but much bigger chunks in massive amounts in that wilderness. It's edible. It can be used as flour without even needing to grind it. And it happens every once in a while in humongous amounts for a few months. (It happens every year, but some years it's more bountiful.) It could have been the manna. I can accept that, but it's still a miracle, because it didn't work like it's described in the Bible. It showed up every morning in the same amounts five days a week, doubled the amounts on the sixth day, and nothing on the seventh, like clock work. Unlike the seed pods described in that program, it also dissolved when the sun came out and the dew dried up. And the manna fed all the people, so that's a LOT of people and not that many plants to feed them that much. Plus, it happened like that nonstop for 40 years, and those seed pods described on that show happen for only three months out of the year.
It may well have been those seed pods, but there is no way other than to say God changed their physics to cause a miracle.
I really do appreciate a good "Let us assume," but once the armor of that assumption is broken, it's time to throw it away... or, at the very least, it's time to call it fiction.
(Willie, I'm agreeing with you, and adding to what you said, so this isn't an argument. Sometimes I come off sounding like I'm arguing, so wanted to clear that up, if it happened again. lol)