Daniel 11:37, The Future Antichrist Will Be A Jew/Hebrew In Decent

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GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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It also says the angel of the Lord. You forgot to mention that one.
That chapter does not say the burning Bush is an Angel. This was the perfect opportunity for God to call himself an angel and he doesn’t. Moses doesn’t go out saying he spoke with an Angel did he? He tells people he spoke with God.

It was an Angel that God chose to get Moses’ attention with the burning Bush. Because we know God and Angels aren’t actually burning bushes, the Bush was just a communication medium.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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It was the Lord Jesus who is the Angel of the Lord which I've cited much Scripture about before. You're just resisting truth even when the words are spelled out for you on the page.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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It was the Lord Jesus who is the Angel of the Lord which I've cited much Scripture about before. You're just resisting truth even when the words are spelled out for you on the page.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
It’s says an Angel of the Lord, not the lord Jesus himself.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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Are we going to make a case now that any angel is God?...

Exodus 3:14 (KJV) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
I am not saying that Jesus is one of the created angels. I'm saying by virtue of definition and for purposes of identifying him in the Scriptures, Jesus is called Michael the archangel. The bible never teaches that Jesus was made God from being an existing angel. But an angel is a messenger, that is the definition, and Jesus is the Word and he is the one who exercises the power, cause and effect of his words and delivers it to us. He is the messenger in chief and lord over all angels, both heavenly and on earth which is the definition of arch angel which identifies Jesus as Michael the archangel.

Later you will see that Michael is also the "prince" over Israel performing the prophesies we have been told the Lord Jesus will do, delivering Israel, reviving the dead from their graves to everlasting honor and dishonor, subduing and destroying the devil, etc. The Scriptures let us know with no mistake that Jesus is also called Michael.
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
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What denomination teaches that Michael and Jesus are one in the same? I cant for the life of me understand how anyone can get this from scripture alone.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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One reason he may *not* be a Jew is because his foreshadows, or types, were Gentiles, including Antiochus 4 and the Roman Emperor. The 4th Beast of Dan 7, which I believe was Rome, will reconsolidate in the last days, through a union of 10 states. Since Rome was based in Europe, and Roman culture continued in Europe, I believe that Europe will become the base for the Antichristian Empire. This means the Antichrist will likely be of European stock--not Jewish.

Just a thought...
Don't forget that most of western civics is based on Rome. It may have been based in Europe, but its influence reached North American continent by virtue of English Law which is based on Roman law.

But, just diving into the real subject matter of this thread instead, I think the rise of this person expected is going to be a complete nonspiritual, secular totalitarian type of individual because secularism is becoming its own "religion."

Although, I'll be honest, I'm not sure a person is going to rise up. I'm just too confused about the prophesies.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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What denomination teaches that Michael and Jesus are one in the same? I cant for the life of me understand how anyone can get this from scripture alone.
No denomination. The bible teaches this.
Good luck to you on your journey.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I am not saying that Jesus is one of the created angels. I'm saying by virtue of definition and for purposes of identifying him in the Scriptures, Jesus is called Michael the archangel.
Got it.
So it is you that is twisting Scripture to mean Jesus is Michael the archangel; it is not Scripture itself that gives Jesus that name.

BTW, where in Scripture is Jesus called Michael the Archangel?
Would you say in Jude 9 it is actually Jesus who is being referred to? According to your logic, it is Jesus.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
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What denomination teaches that Michael and Jesus are one in the same? I cant for the life of me understand how anyone can get this from scripture alone.
No denomination. The bible teaches this.
OR, you are dead wrong on this. Hebrews chapter 1 makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is not only distinct from, but superior to the angels... all of them. Jesus is not an angel.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
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Pacific NW USA
Don't forget that most of western civics is based on Rome. It may have been based in Europe, but its influence reached North American continent by virtue of English Law which is based on Roman law.

But, just diving into the real subject matter of this thread instead, I think the rise of this person expected is going to be a complete nonspiritual, secular totalitarian type of individual because secularism is becoming its own "religion."

Although, I'll be honest, I'm not sure a person is going to rise up. I'm just too confused about the prophesies.
I agree with virtually everything you said, except I am well-versed in the prophecies, and do believe the Antichrist will arise. The "Beast" is both a Kingdom and a King.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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A logical fallacy going on here...

Angels are messengers.
Michael the archangel is God's messenger.
Jesus brings God's message.
Jesus is a messenger.
Therefore Jesus is Michael the archangel. (faulty deduction)
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
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Let me just say this...
When Jesus created a universal Church, he knew he was leaving this Earth and that it would need human leadership that had authority to bind and loose in order to keep that Church together and make decisions in his absence. So he gave Peter the keys to heaven and it has been passed in succession ever since.

The Eastern Orthodox are the same way on a smaller scale. If you go to a Russian Orthodox Church anywhere on Earth, the buck stops with the Patriarch of Russia. It’s the same with the others. So we are hardly unique.

Catholics are the largest most unified groups of Christians on Earth because every Catholic Church isn’t part of the Catholic Chuch unless they are in direct communion with the church in Rome. I thank God for that.

I don’t recognize any difference between what Christ wants from me and what Christ’s Church wants from me. The Church is the Bride of Christ as the Bible says.

Thank you for your post.
They create idols and command their followers to worship them :(
Christ wants us to keep from idols.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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I am not saying that Jesus is one of the created angels. I'm saying by virtue of definition and for purposes of identifying him in the Scriptures, Jesus is called Michael the archangel. The bible never teaches that Jesus was made God from being an existing angel. But an angel is a messenger, that is the definition, and Jesus is the Word and he is the one who exercises the power, cause and effect of his words and delivers it to us. He is the messenger in chief and lord over all angels, both heavenly and on earth which is the definition of arch angel which identifies Jesus as Michael the archangel.

Later you will see that Michael is also the "prince" over Israel performing the prophesies we have been told the Lord Jesus will do, delivering Israel, reviving the dead from their graves to everlasting honor and dishonor, subduing and destroying the devil, etc. The Scriptures let us know with no mistake that Jesus is also called Michael.
Direct Question: Do you believe in a literal place of torment upon death for the wicked "Hell"?
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
A logical fallacy going on here...

Angels are messengers.
Michael the archangel is God's messenger.
Jesus brings God's message.
Jesus is a messenger.
Therefore Jesus is Michael the archangel. (faulty deduction)
It's called non-sequitur reasoning. It goes on all the time! ;)
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
No denomination. The bible teaches this.
Good luck to you on your journey.
JWs teach something like it, but are a Christian cult. Whether you believe Michael was a theophany in the OT is a different matter. I do believe Jesus appeared, pre-incarnation, as theophanies. Of course, he would not yet have been known as Jesus. He would only have been the personification of the Word of God, looking forward to being born as Jesus.
 
Apr 26, 2021
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JWs teach something like it, but are a Christian cult. Whether you believe Michael was a theophany in the OT is a different matter. I do believe Jesus appeared, pre-incarnation, as theophanies. Of course, he would not yet have been known as Jesus. He would only have been the personification of the Word of God, looking forward to being born as Jesus.
Really, to be honest, I just don't know anything about churches or denominations. I was raised in a Presbyterian church, learned doctrine of free willism, discovered that wasn't biblical, and never went back. I tried a Lutheran church after that which seemed "luke warm," and had a giant life-sized modernist wood carving of a man hanging on a cross that I found very offensive. I don't like graven images. I sat in that church for about a year and little memory of it other than that offensive modern artistic graven image of Jesus on the cross.

After that, I have stuck to very strict solo scriptura study and am at a real disadvantage discussing churches and denominations because I don't know any of them and don't have the inclination to study them or their histories. Although in the past I have looked at the Mormons and their claim to have new prophesies, angelic tablets, blah, blah. I investigated them a little bit at the time Mit Romney was running against President Obama to determine what kind of man a Mormon might be as a president. I voted for Romney, though he is rather despicable to me these days. How church denominations are organized, their doctrines, their theologies, I just couldn't care less about them nowadays.