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G
Sorry but I have studied this and the math did line up, so I know what I have studied....... { Keep studying. 
}
And once again in Daniel 9:26 it says the Lord is cut off (crucified) after the 62 weeks, which would be at the end after the 69th week had finished; { No. }
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ...
}And once again in Daniel 9:26 it says the Lord is cut off (crucified) after the 62 weeks, which would be at the end after the 69th week had finished; { No. }
"And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, ...
In the 'grammar of the language' - what - exactly and precisely - in the previous verse - do these two words refer [ back ] to?
K
Let me ask you something...
In the 'grammar of the language' - what - exactly and precisely - in the previous verse - do these two words refer [ back ] to?
In the 'grammar of the language' - what - exactly and precisely - in the previous verse - do these two words refer [ back ] to?
It says once again in Daniel 9:26 that He is cut off after the 69th week, not that He comes after it.
If He comes after the 69th week then He would be cut off in the middle of the 70th week, but the scripture says no such thing. You are trying to play with words to make your theology fit, but once again a history lesson with taking in the Jewish calendar will show that the first 69 weeks were exactly 483 years.
I do not need to study more when I already have in depth and seen how the bible, history, and Jewish calendar all line up together...............
His being cut off is not a direct reference to His being crucified, it is in direct reference to His being baptized.
He willfully subjected Himself to something beneath Him, cutting Himself from His Father, for His people's sake, not for Himself. (cf. John 15:13)
"Greater love than this no man has, that he lay down his life for his friends."
He willfully subjected Himself to something beneath Him, cutting Himself from His Father, for His people's sake, not for Himself. (cf. John 15:13)
"Greater love than this no man has, that he lay down his life for his friends."
K
Now you are really trying to reach to make this fit, please and I say this with all love and respect do a history study and Jewish calendar and custom to find understanding. For a prophetic week is 7 years long, as the first 69 weeks can easily be shown in history that it lasted 483 years. So if the first 69 were 7 years a piece then the final 70th week also has to be 7 years.
The Lord's earthly ministry did not last 7 years and the covenant was not established for only 7 years.
The new covenant the Lord brought in is an everlasting covenant, and His ministry was less then 7 years, so this can not be speaking of the Lord.
And yes the cut off is referring to His crucifixion, not His baptism as baptism does not cut anybody off of anything but makes one born again into righteousness....
A blanket statement that a prophetic week is seven years is not valid, as it needn't be, but the "Seventy Weeks Prophecy" interpretation is specific that this is so within the "Seventy Weeks Prophecy".
As to your denial that the cutting off refers directly to Christ's being baptized, keep in mind that His submission to it was not out of necessity as was mine to be obedient, it was for His people, even those who rejected Him.
By doing that, however, while already being righteous, He cut Himself off from the Father. (cf. John 15:1)
"I am the true vine and My Father is the vine dresser."
As to your denial that the cutting off refers directly to Christ's being baptized, keep in mind that His submission to it was not out of necessity as was mine to be obedient, it was for His people, even those who rejected Him.
By doing that, however, while already being righteous, He cut Himself off from the Father. (cf. John 15:1)
"I am the true vine and My Father is the vine dresser."
G
<begin QUOTE by KennethC>
It says once again in Daniel 9:26 that He is cut off after the 69th week, not that He comes after it. { It says neither. That is -- it does not actually say either of these ideas expressed in this sentence. ( It actually says something else. ) Which brings me to the point of just how vitally important it is to first have a good understanding of what a Bible verse / passage actually says before trying to determine the meaning of it. }
If He comes after the 69th week { He does - see verse 25. ( "69 full weeks" ) } then He would be cut off in the middle of the 70th week { He was. }, but the scripture says no such thing. { Yes it does. } You are trying to play with words { I am not playing with anything. I am trying to get you ( and others ) to see what the passage is actually saying. } to make your theology fit { It is your theology that is attempting the 'word games' to "make it fit" - perhaps you just do not realize it yet. }, but once again a history lesson with taking in the Jewish calendar will show that the first 69 weeks were exactly 483 years. { I have no issue with the fact that the first 69 weeks were 483 years. }
<end QUOTE>
Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"Let me know when you believe you fully understand that the first part of verse 25 is saying that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 69 weeks --- and we can continue..."
( Oh Look! That is exactly what it says!! )
It says once again in Daniel 9:26 that He is cut off after the 69th week, not that He comes after it. { It says neither. That is -- it does not actually say either of these ideas expressed in this sentence. ( It actually says something else.
) Which brings me to the point of just how vitally important it is to first have a good understanding of what a Bible verse / passage actually says before trying to determine the meaning of it. }If He comes after the 69th week { He does - see verse 25. ( "69 full weeks" ) } then He would be cut off in the middle of the 70th week { He was. }, but the scripture says no such thing. { Yes it does. } You are trying to play with words { I am not playing with anything. I am trying to get you ( and others ) to see what the passage is actually saying. } to make your theology fit { It is your theology that is attempting the 'word games' to "make it fit" - perhaps you just do not realize it yet.
}, but once again a history lesson with taking in the Jewish calendar will show that the first 69 weeks were exactly 483 years. { I have no issue with the fact that the first 69 weeks were 483 years. }<end QUOTE>
Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"Let me know when you believe you fully understand that the first part of verse 25 is saying that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 69 weeks --- and we can continue..."
( Oh Look!
That is exactly what it says!! )
Last edited:
K
<begin QUOTE by KennethC>
It says once again in Daniel 9:26 that He is cut off after the 69th week, not that He comes after it. { It says neither. That is -- it does not actually say either of these ideas expressed in this sentence. ( It actually says something else. ) Which brings me to the point of just how vitally important it is to first have a good understanding of what a Bible verse / passage actually says before trying to determine the meaning of it. }
If He comes after the 69th week { He does - see verse 25. ( "69 full weeks" ) } then He would be cut off in the middle of the 70th week { He was. }, but the scripture says no such thing. { Yes it does. } You are trying to play with words { I am not playing with anything. I am trying to get you ( and others ) to see what the passage is actually saying. } to make your theology fit { It is your theology that is attempting the 'word games' to "make it fit" - perhaps you just do not realize it yet. }, but once again a history lesson with taking in the Jewish calendar will show that the first 69 weeks were exactly 483 years. { I have no issue with the fact that the first 69 weeks were 483 years. }
<end QUOTE>
Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"Let me know when you understand that the first part of verse 25 is saying that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 69 weeks - and we can continue..."
( Oh Look! That is exactly what it says!! )
It says once again in Daniel 9:26 that He is cut off after the 69th week, not that He comes after it. { It says neither. That is -- it does not actually say either of these ideas expressed in this sentence. ( It actually says something else.
) Which brings me to the point of just how vitally important it is to first have a good understanding of what a Bible verse / passage actually says before trying to determine the meaning of it. }If He comes after the 69th week { He does - see verse 25. ( "69 full weeks" ) } then He would be cut off in the middle of the 70th week { He was. }, but the scripture says no such thing. { Yes it does. } You are trying to play with words { I am not playing with anything. I am trying to get you ( and others ) to see what the passage is actually saying. } to make your theology fit { It is your theology that is attempting the 'word games' to "make it fit" - perhaps you just do not realize it yet.
}, but once again a history lesson with taking in the Jewish calendar will show that the first 69 weeks were exactly 483 years. { I have no issue with the fact that the first 69 weeks were 483 years. }<end QUOTE>
Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
"Let me know when you understand that the first part of verse 25 is saying that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 69 weeks - and we can continue..."
( Oh Look!
That is exactly what it says!! )
I do not need your play and twist on words, for I have done the study on looking into this intensively and the math adds up.
7 + 62 = 69 Not 70 !!!
[SUP]"26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off"
Nowhere does it say in the 70th week He is cut off, if that was the case then the Lord would have been crucified around 36-37 A.D. This is not correct as we know by history study that the year He was crucified was 33 A.D., and not 30 A.D. as others have tried to say.
Ken, and many others deny the 70th week prophecy about Messiah being cut off in the midst of the 70th week. They say it is yet to be fulfilled somewhere in the future. This is heresy because it is rejecting the prophecy of Messiah being crucified in that week, as they also reject the covenant confirmed by the Lord in the last week of Daniels 70 week prophecy.
Ken, and many others deny the 70th week prophecy about Messiah being cut off in the midst of the 70th week. They say it is yet to be fulfilled somewhere in the future. This is heresy because it is rejecting the prophecy of Messiah being crucified in that week, as they also reject the covenant confirmed by the Lord in the last week of Daniels 70 week prophecy.
K
Ken, and many others deny the 70th week prophecy about Messiah being cut off in the midst of the 70th week. They say it is yet to be fulfilled somewhere in the future. This is heresy because it is rejecting the prophecy of Messiah being crucified in that week, as they also reject the covenant confirmed by the Lord in the last week of Daniels 70 week prophecy.
Wrong again as usual with your false allegations, for we do not deny the crucifixion of the Lord, just your interpretation of it.
I already see your problem with the diagram above, because the Lord was crucified in 33 AD., and your chart has Him crucified before that date and you have the 70th week as one full already fulfilled week. When the bible clearly speaks of a gap between the two of an undetermined time.
1. Cyrus, the king of Persia, commands the Temple to be rebuilt and allows the Jews to return in 539 B.C. (Ezra 1:1-11).
2. Artaxerxes, king of Persia, gives Ezra the priest a letter permitting and encouraging Temple worship and sacrifice at Mt. Moriah, but not the rebuilding of the city and its walls in 458 B.C. (Ezra 7:11-26)
The king, seeing Nehemiah’s sadness, asked him why he looked sad? Nehemiah told him, and Artaxerxes granted his request and gave Nehemiah (Nehemiah 2:1-8) orders to rebuild the city gates and walls.
The order was given in March/April 444 B.C. The reign of Artaxerexes began in 464 B.C. his twentieth year would have bee 444 B.C. The month of Nisan is the first year of the Jewish Calendar, equivalent to March/April.
Gabriel informs Daniel, following the 62-week or 434-year division,Messiah shall be cut-off. The Hebrew word for Cut off is trkKarath and means to “Cut down or cut off”. Gabriel informs Daniel, Messiah the ruler will be killed after the 434-year segment.
The Prophetic Clock however stopped at the end of the 69th week when Messiah the Prince was cut off. Following with desolations until the 70th Week. Gabriel tells Daniel, “till the end of the war desolations are determined”.
Daniel 12 states clearly that there is yet 1335 days left to deal with Israel and the great tribulation....the first 1185 days were in my view the ministry of Jesus unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel...they rejected Christ and now must endure the last half (a little over)...
7 years times 360 days = 2520 minus 1335 = 1185....
There are yet...
3.5 years of the beast's rule and war against the saints
3.5 years of the two witnesses
3.5 years of great tribulation
Also identified as 42 months or a time, times and a half of time or 3.5 years....
My break down is
30 days of Peace<--when they say peace and safety sudden destruction
1260 days of great tribulation
45 days of wrath<---saints not appointed
1335 days left! That is a summation...I am in Australia and do not have my PC...if I did I could post a little more that I have already typed up....maybe hit me up in a week and I will post the whole study....
7 years times 360 days = 2520 minus 1335 = 1185....
There are yet...
3.5 years of the beast's rule and war against the saints
3.5 years of the two witnesses
3.5 years of great tribulation
Also identified as 42 months or a time, times and a half of time or 3.5 years....
My break down is
30 days of Peace<--when they say peace and safety sudden destruction
1260 days of great tribulation
45 days of wrath<---saints not appointed
1335 days left! That is a summation...I am in Australia and do not have my PC...if I did I could post a little more that I have already typed up....maybe hit me up in a week and I will post the whole study....
I believe the mistake a lot of people make is trying to extract the 1260 days and 1335 days prophecy from the 70 week prophecy, but that is not what the scriptures say. The start of that 1290 day prophecy time line does start until the abomination of desolation is set up in 70 ad. (Dan 12:11) If you look at all the prophecies concerning the time, times and a half, and the 1260 days, and the 42 months they all point to right after Messiah is caught up, the Devil is cast down and the woman flees into the wilderness and this time is still ongoing.
But I still hold to the idea that this time period is symbolic of time, as the 1260 starts at the destruction of Jerusalem and does not end until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which I personally believe will be at or around the 6th seal being loosed.
But I still hold to the idea that this time period is symbolic of time, as the 1260 starts at the destruction of Jerusalem and does not end until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which I personally believe will be at or around the 6th seal being loosed.
I generally agree with what is presented in this image; however, the 'data' is not all entirely correct. Perhaps I may create a graphic illustration of my perspective on this issue.
But for now - let's get Phil's thread "back on track"...
We can continue this in another thread.
Agreed?
But for now - let's get Phil's thread "back on track"...
We can continue this in another thread.
Agreed?
G
I am just saying that we should move the Daniel 9 discussion to a thread that is intended to discuss Daniel 9 ( already existing or not - already existing is okay with me ) ---- and, allow this thread to have its intended Daniel 12 discussion.
I did not mean for the point(s) about the Daniel 9 passage to completely take over the thread...
I did not mean for the point(s) about the Daniel 9 passage to completely take over the thread...
I am just saying that we should move the Daniel 9 discussion to a thread that is intended to discuss Daniel 9 ( already existing or not - already existing is okay with me ) ---- and, allow this thread to have its intended Daniel 12 discussion.
I did not mean for the point(s) about the Daniel 9 passage to completely take over the thread...
I did not mean for the point(s) about the Daniel 9 passage to completely take over the thread...