I also used the translation that used the word "darkness", not my own but the NIV translation. Darkness to me relates and corresponds with evil because darkness is the absence of light. (John 3:19,20; John 12:35,46) So, I ask again - How can God create darkness (the absence of light) when there is NO darkness in him AT ALL?
"that all things are subject to God, and ruled by his will" . . . that was true in the beginning - until Satan tried to usurp the throne of God with his "I wills" and rebelled and was cast out of heaven. And if all things are ruled by God's will then it is God's will that evil comes upon us . . . there we have God working with evil, i.e. darkness, the absence of light.
Since Satan was cast out of heaven . . . and since God cannot be in the presence of sin (so I have heard said - can't ever find that verse), of which Satan is the epitome of sin . . . would Satan be allowed before God? Or are the first two chapters of Job told in an allegorical style and the moral being taught through his trials and tribulations is "that it rains on the just as well as the unjust"? (Matt. 5:45) Which is of course what Job's miserable comforters believed - that Job had done something terrible and that God was punishing him . . . just the opposite, for Job was a righteous man. Satan asked to sift (fig. by inward agitation to try one's faith to the verge of overthrow) all of you as wheat and in that sense Satan desires to ruin everyone's life to the point they begin to lose faith. What was going to cause inward agitation to the point where Peter would begin to lose faith - Peter denying the Lord before the cock crowed - Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times. And he went outside and wept bitterly. Can you imagine how much his faith took a hit at that point?
Two times the word records Satan asking "permission" - so we take those two times and run with it. The whole world lies in the power of the evil one (ESV); the whole world is under the control of the evil one (NIV); the god of this world blinds people to the gospel; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices (2 Cor. 2:11); Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour: (1 Peter 5:8) - Why watch, why are we not to be ignorant? God's up there giving him permission ??????
Correct we are not to be a part of this world, i.e. conformed to this world but we live in it . . . the world, this age that we live in - is under CONTROL, IN THE POWER of the evil one - the only way to separate ourselves from this environment and not be touched by evil/darkness is when we leave this world. It rains on the just and the unjust!
"It all has to fit together or we have missed something."
. . . Yes
I said - Does God do (allow) evil to happen to people just so he can turn it around for good? That would be "doing evil so that good may result". (Romans 3:8) Or does he take the evil perpetrated by the adversary (either directly, through men or just the state of the world) and turn it for good?
I believe the latter . . .
Man, Paul must have had a really harder time of it in Romans 7 than I first thought - on one side God allowing Satan to get Paul to do the things he doesn't want to do then on the other God is wanting him to do the things he wants to do . . . Whew!!!!
Another wait time for drying so I want to talk about your second paragraph. Where is the quote from that you begin the paragraph with?
I believe that no evil can touch me unless God gives permission. That satan can't harm me or sift me unless he gets permission. I believe even as David did when the crazy man was throwing rocks at him and his guys said, let's go kick his butt and david said: no, don't you dare hurt him. If he is throwing rocks at me it's because God told him to (or as I read and understand it - God gave him permission to buffet me with rocks) and God has not told me what He's doing or what He means by this.
I have given ample - more than ample - examples of satan having to ask permission to touch Job, to sift peter. I guess you could view it as satan just asking permission out of politeness, even though he didn't have to get any permission, but I think everyone of us would laugh at THAT idea! So then you're left to grapple with why satan has asked permission to touch men when you say he doesn't have to ask that permission. But that's yours to do the grappling with. I believe he DOES have to ask permission to touch me and it will end in my great blessing, growth in trust, etc.
I don't know why God has let it all go on for as long as He has but I KNOW it's for the very best, wise and perfect of reasons and I know He will one day be praised for letting it go on
exactly as long as He did, because all His ways are perfect. I don't know why He permitted what happened to you as a child. I only know He works all things for good to those who love Him and are called by Him. I also know that might make you mad to hear me say it. All things means all things.
I'm fine to disagree, but I have given ample examples of what scripture and bible stories have informed my thoughts, so you can't say I've not considered scripture in my opinions and thoughts.
Third paragraph - I would be interested to hear the verse when you find it that says God can't be in the presence of sin...because He was in the presence of Adam and Eve after they sinned and it says satan came to present himself before God in the book of Job. So I need the verse that negates these other verses and says God cannot be in the presence of sin.
As to the statement that we are running with two verses that have satan asking permission, Wouldn't it be better to run with those two , which are in agreement, than to run with the ONE verse you currently do?
And...towards the end of your post, no I don't think God permits evil just so that He can turn it around for good. I believe if He permits any evil to touch us or satan to sift us, that it is in order to grow our trust, which is our most precious possession, or to bring great and eternal blessing and good to us and/or others. I've used examples from the bible of the blessing that resulted for Job by God giving that permission and of the blessing that resulted for you and I by God permitting men to torture and murder our Lord. They didn't murder Him because God wasn't in control because Jesus said no one took His life but He laid it down willingly and on purpose.
All good points to discuss and grapple with in this post of yours!
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