DELIVER US FROM DELIVERANCE MINISTERS

[7seasrekeyed]

Hi seas...Jesus is my deliverer from all things , to trust , lean and rely on Him , God delivers us from ALL evil , to those who are in Christ Jesus...

It seems many people out there who give themselves titles such as Deliverance ministries are the ones who need deliverance themselves , I don`t know , I had never heard of such people till I read this thread lol ...xox...

hmmm...well the so called ministry of deliverance or deliverance ministry is quite a thing with some folks

at one time I thought it valid myself, but through trial and error, study and just the cold hard facts of the harm so many do, I came to see that truly only Jesus is our Deliverer and praise God for your testimony about Him!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

NO, deliverance ministers and ministries are not Biblical and not supported in scripture anywhere. Christ did far more, manifesting the goodness of God, healing and teaching than he ever did casting things out of people.

you know, years back...I guess about 10 or 12 now...I had quite a discussion with an older gentleman who was not by any means weird or offbeat but he was all for deliverance ministries. I asked him to show me where in scripture they were validated.

this man, who had years of experience in ministry and who did love Jesus, finally had to come back and admit the Bible had nothing to say about it

I have no idea where he went from there but I think he must have had some kind of awakening and maybe took a harder look at some of the practices

the fact he acknowledged scripture ABOVE the popular teaching of the day, says, I think, something about his character and certainly God would honor that

 

[oldethennew]

Absolutely no true Christian can be possessed after receiving The Holy Spirit -
a house divided can never stand...

but, there IS THE BATTLE...

we know of no 'deliverance ministries', only 'charlatans'...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

that is a very sobering passage and needs self reflection

what are our motives? far too many seek fame in ministry...and follow the TV example instead of the God example...I think you know that (having read some of yr other posts in this thread)

it seems a person can enact the gifts and yet still be rejected...in this day with SO much deception with regards to the gifts and practices, that should be a key verse for discernment right there

I saw you liked the post about studying the armor...I am going to do a study on that myself and have been putting it off...going to use the OT as well cause I think their are many comparisons

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Absolutely no true Christian can be possessed after receiving The Holy Spirit -
a house divided can never stand...

but, there IS THE BATTLE...

we know of no 'deliverance ministries'...

I do not believe Christians can be 'possessed' either...that is being taken over and not able to help themselves

I do believe some people can become so embroiled in their sin they do need help and we are supposed to be here for each other.

I also believe the devil through his demons can do far more harm then many would believe, but still, we are supposed to take a stand against it

Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. Ephesians 6:13

 

[iamsoandso]

I was going to respond in another thread, but because of the gravity of the thread and a situation that the op expressed and a response that makes me really ticked off (yes it happens), I decided to open up a thread for discussion regarding

DELIVERANCE MINISTERS

rather than become embroiled in a disagreement that sidetracked the aforementioned thread

so...are deliverance ministers genuine or not?

is that an actual ministry?

I believe demons exist. I believe they need to be dealt with as the occasion may arise.

I do not believe we go chasing them, specialize in them or otherwise create an entire 'ministry' surrounding them

thoughts and comments of either side....scripture backing up what you think is helpful

name calling not desired or helpful

guess we will see what develops

Acts 19:11-15 ect. is what I think you are looking for...

 

[valleyofdecision]

Deliverance ministry is a must. You need Labor's who know Jesus and is willing to tear the roof off and put them in front of Jesus (Mark 2:4). The spiritual (sin) must be dealt with before Jesus deals with the circumstances.

This is so wrong on so many levels I won't even attmept to say much, except for this:

We do not clean up anybody, the blood does.

 

[valleyofdecision]

Oppression leads to depression:​

The following are examples of the numbers per year in the United States of those who are defeated and are Satan’s prisoners of war in the following categories:

• 38 million who are in bondage to alcohol
• 22 million drug addicts.
• 1.3 million who attempt suicide, and 40,000 who take their own lives
• 28,000 viewers of Internet porn every second
• Those who sexually abuse one out of three girls and one out of five boys before they reach the age of 18
• Those who sexually, physically, or verbally abuse or neglect 1 million children annually
• Those who cause 4.7 million women to be victims of domestic violence annually
• 3 million addicted to gambling
• 33.8 million adults who smoke or chew tobacco and 440,000 who die annually as a result.
• 17 percent of children and 37 percent of adults who are obese
​

Of these numbers how many are truly in bondage or simply have not heard the gospel yet?

 

[valleyofdecision]

I have been praying about your Op and still don't know how to answer if we need deliverance ministers....

Depends on the minister I guess...are they humble? Do they display fruits of the Spirit? Are they part of a local church and held accountable by other holy spirit filed believers? Do they charge money for their services? Are they bible based?

Do they disciple and teach scriptures and how the person can resist and cause the demons to flee themselves OR do they make people dependent upon them?

Do the point to Jesus or do they build their own kingdom of power and prestige?

I believe that God gives the gift of spiritual discernment to some. The ability to see good and evil spirits, see into the Spirit realms and the angels that go about God's business and the ones who seek to deceive the masses.

I believe that we do not cast out demons. We pray and God sends His angels and they cast out the demons.

We do not argue with demons. We stand on the truth found in the Bible and the demons flee when they realise we do not but their lies.

Do we need deliverance ministers?

We need Jesus. We need the Body of Christ,the church. We need maturity. All we need God has already given us. We have His holy spirit.

I guess I will have to pray more about the question.

I do know we need people who will bandage the wounds demons and their lies do upon people's hearts and minds. We need people with sound doctrine and loving hearts to help them heal and grow strong and rooted in Christ to fight off the temptation of Satan and tear down any spiritual strongholds they may have left built.

There is no spiritual gift of discernment, there is a spiritual gift of discerning of spirits and your definition is correct. I would be careful confusing the 2 because there is no gift of discernment.

 

[valleyofdecision]

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me…to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.” —Isaiah 61:1

Most people do not think they are at war with Satan, but Satan is at war with everyone, especially Christians.

In Genesis 3:15, God says there will be enmity (war or hatred) between Satan and the woman, and between Satan’s followers and Christ, which includes believers, since they are in Christ. Satan also comes trying to steal, kill, and destroy from everyone (Jn. 10:10). As a result, most people are defeated and are his prisoners of war since they do not know how to have victory over sin and Satan.

The following are examples of the numbers per year in the United States of those who are defeated and are Satan’s prisoners of war in the following categories:

• 38 million who are in bondage to alcohol
• 22 million drug addicts.
• 1.3 million who attempt suicide, and 40,000 who take their own lives
• 28,000 viewers of Internet porn every second
• Those who sexually abuse one out of three girls and one out of five boys before they reach the age of 18
• Those who sexually, physically, or verbally abuse or neglect 1 million children annually
• Those who cause 4.7 million women to be victims of domestic violence annually
• 3 million addicted to gambling
• 33.8 million adults who smoke or chew tobacco and 440,000 who die annually as a result.
• 17 percent of children and 37 percent of adults who are obese

These are some pretty obvious examples, and some of them are Christians who are struggling to overcome sin. But there are many who are struggling and losing to less obvious sins such as fear, anger, depression, unforgiveness, and selfishness. When the Assyrians would capture prisoners of war, they would put a ring or hook through the lower lips of the defeated soldiers so they could lead them around. The Babylonians put a ring or hook through the noses of prisoners of war. After prisoners of war were shown off in the triumph of a victorious Roman general (see last month’s article), half of them were killed and the other half became slaves. All of this is similar to how Satan uses and abuses his prisoners of war.

The reason Christians have become prisoners of the war with Satan is because they are fighting the wrong war, and they are trying to fight Satan and sin the wrong way. Christians are not to fight against sin because the power of sin is greater than their greatest strength. God told Paul that the power of Christ could only help him when he realized how weak he himself was, and that he had to totally depend on Christ so God’s power could work in and through him (II Cor. 12:9).

In realizing their helplessness and understanding that they do not have to turn to hopelessness, Christians can say yes to the hope that is only available in Christ. Besides that, the power of sin was already broken on the Cross, so believers do not have to keep fighting that battle.

Therefore, their weapons are not carnal (II Cor. 10:4), or something they can produce themselves and use to accomplish their victory. Their battle is not against acts of sin, but the fight is to keep their faith in who Christ is and what He did on the Cross, so they stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious. That is the only way they are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in them both to will (change their desires), and to do (give them the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13), so they can overcome sin. This is the only way believers can yield themselves as God’s servants (slaves) of obedience instead of being slaves to sin unto death (Rom. 6:16).

A believer can know he is a prisoner of war if he is repeatedly committing sins, such as works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21), or he is missing some of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23).

Pastor Dave Smith - JSM
​

The devil does not bother those who are already his.

The only fight we are to fight is the fight of faith. Not one verse in the Bible tell us to wage ware with Satan or his demons. We are told we will struggle with these things, but we do not fight them. We do not wage war in heavenly places.

Satan is only after faith nothing more.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Acts 19:11-15 ect. is what I think you are looking for...

thanks...yup somebody brought that up already ...

if you care to, would you explain your views on it?

no worries if not though

 

[7seasrekeyed]

There is no spiritual gift of discernment, there is a spiritual gift of discerning of spirits and your definition is correct. I would be careful confusing the 2 because there is no gift of discernment.

true

care to define the difference?

an interesting sidebar discussion right there

 

[valleyofdecision]

​2 Timothy 2:24-26 King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

This is not at all what she asked you, next. BTW, large fonts and different colors in typing just mean you are shouting and have no manners.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The devil does not bother those who are already his.

The only fight we are to fight is the fight of faith. Not one verse in the Bible tell us to wage ware with Satan or his demons. We are told we will struggle with these things, but we do not fight them. We do not wage war in heavenly places.

Satan is only after faith nothing more.

where the waging war in heavenly places comes from is v 12 of Eph 6...but I would agree it does not say we are in heavenly places

gotta say...this would be another interesting sidebar

 

[valleyofdecision]

it would be fantastic, IMO to study all the pieces of the spiritual armor

Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Eph. 6:11-17

Every piece of the Armor of God is Jesus Christ.

 

[valleyofdecision]

Satan's plan is just this....if you are lost, he aims to keep you lost, if you are a follower of Christ, he knows he's fighting a losing battle, but he's going to do anything and everything to make you think you're lost and unsaved, but if you believe it in your heart that Christ is the son of God and that God did raise him from the dead, the Word tells us you're saved already. Prime example would be Job.....God took his hedge of protection away from Job, and Job was still faithful and loyal to the Lord, and Satan took EVERYTHING away from him and put him through the toughest of circumstances...yet Job still remained faithful to the Lord......that's Satan's goal.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

The only thing Satan is after, in a believer, is their faith.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The devil does not bother those who are already his.

The only fight we are to fight is the fight of faith. Not one verse in the Bible tell us to wage ware with Satan or his demons. We are told we will struggle with these things, but we do not fight them. We do not wage war in heavenly places.

Satan is only after faith nothing more.

What is God's prescribed victory over the sin, the world, the flesh, and the Devil? How does the Holy Spirit work in a Believers life? Do you understand how "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus Works?"

Majority of Christians are living under the "Law of Sin and Death." Very few Christians live in "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus."

There are seven great Laws outlined in the New Testament, all devised and created by God. They are:
1. The Law of God (Romans 7:22)

2. The Law of Sin and Death (Romans 7:23)

3. The Law of the Mind (Romans 7:23)

4. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)

5. The Law of Faith (Romans 3:27)

6. The Law of Christ (Gal. 6:2); and,

7. The Law of Liberty (James 1:25)

How do these "Laws" work in a Believers life?
​

 

[valleyofdecision]

might be timely to deal with the notion of Christians being demon possessed

can Christians be demon possessed?

this question is loaded and a study on the word possession and the way it is handled in so many translations would be helpful

the way the original language expresses the use of the word possessed, is with the opposite meaning most believe it has

the meaning is actually the person possessing the demon and not the demon possessing the person

if someone possesses a dog, they own the dog...the dog does not own them


even knowing or acknowledging the above however, does not change the question of whether or not a Christian can have a demon INDWELLING them...

IMO, the argument might more sense if people would acknowledge the Bible does indicate that the devil/demons can and do harm to believers

and by the way, one devil, many demons

btw, obscure scriptures that are used to indicate one view or the other prob will not make a case. the Bible is not silent on the subject and guessing is not helpful

Let me answer it this way. We are only owned by what we let own us.

We have many threads on free choice to come to God or not. I think people miss that serving Satan is not his doing, it is your doing. You choose to serve Satan or God. Free choice is a law held by Satan as well as God. Neither Satan or God is in the business of taking hostages. You freely chose to serve Satan or God.

This is why we are admonished to pick and serve only one master. This is why thee is no such things as a fight of 2 different natures. There is only one or the other. There is no middle room. Choose this day who you will serve.

Light/dark, sweet/bitter, spirit/flesh.

We chose who owns us.

Now this is very unpopular teaching, but the Word usually is very unpopular.

 

[valleyofdecision]

that is a very sobering passage and needs self reflection

what are our motives? far too many seek fame in ministry...and follow the TV example instead of the God example...I think you know that (having read some of yr other posts in this thread)

it seems a person can enact the gifts and yet still be rejected...in this day with SO much deception with regards to the gifts and practices, that should be a key verse for discernment right there

I saw you liked the post about studying the armor...I am going to do a study on that myself and have been putting it off...going to use the OT as well cause I think their are many comparisons

Isaiah 59:15-20

Yes, truth is lacking;
And he who turns aside from evil makes himself a prey.
Now the Lord saw,
And it was displeasing in His sight that there was no justice.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And He saw that there was no man,
And was astonished that there was no one to intercede;
Then His own arm brought salvation to Him,
And His righteousness upheld Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]He put on righteousness like a breastplate,
And a helmet of salvation on His head;
And He put on garments of vengeance for clothing
And wrapped Himself with zeal as a mantle.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]According to their deeds, so He will repay,
Wrath to His adversaries, recompense to His enemies;
To the coastlands He will make recompense.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]So they will fear the name of the Lord from the west
And His glory from the rising of the sun,
For He will come like a rushing stream
Which the wind of the Lord drives.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“A Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,” declares the Lord.

 

[valleyofdecision]

true

care to define the difference?

an interesting sidebar discussion right there

Everyone who knows the meat of the word is able to discern between good an evil. this is Biblical discernment.

~Heb 5:14~
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

The gift of discerning of spirits found in 1 Cor 12 manifests and then allows a person to see and hear in the spiritual realm. So they can see and hear demons and angels. It also manifest and lets a person know by what spirit a person is peaking, truth or error and also allows a person to know the motive of someone and the emotions of that motive, or just emotions in general.

~2 Kings 6:15-17~
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Now when the attendant of the man of God had risen early and gone out, behold, an army with horses and chariots was circling the city. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?” [SUP]16 [/SUP]So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.” [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Elisha prayed and said, “O Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” And the Lord opened the servant’s eyes and he saw; and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha

~Acts 16:16-18~
[SUP]16 [/SUP]It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out at that very moment.